Bolton to London services

[Philip]

What's the plan for any potential new direct trains to London from Bolton once the new platform is opened, the line electrified and the line speed improved to intercity standard? Is anything confirmed and if so will it be an hourly extension of one of the existing services from Manchester or just a similar arrangement to Blackpool and Shrewsbury?

Is there scope and demand to extend one of the Manchester to London services to start from Bolton every hour and is there much scope to have them stop at Salford Crescent?

 

[Moonshot]

What's the plan for any potential new direct trains to London from Bolton once the new platform is opened, the line electrified and the line speed improved to intercity standard? Is anything confirmed and if so will it be an hourly extension of one of the existing services from Manchester or just a similar arrangement to Blackpool and Shrewsbury?

Is there scope and demand to extend one of the Manchester to London services to start from Bolton every hour and is there much scope to have them stop at Salford Crescent?

Assuming you mean Virgin pendolino services.......that would cause huge problems at Salford Crescent for starters.

 

[pemma]

Yes Salford Crescent is limited to trains under around 150m in length, even if SDO is fitted. Even 8 car 319s with the rear unit locked out of use will be a no-no, 6 car 331s will be fine though.

 

[Jonny]

Yes Salford Crescent is limited to trains under around 150m in length, even if SDO is fitted. Even 8 car 319s with the rear unit locked out of use will be a no-no, 6 car 331s will be fine though.

Would they have to call at Salford Central, though?

 

[Moonshot]

The other thing to bear in mind is that having a Pendolino start and end at Bolton in effect blocks a through line for however long it takes to prepare one for service.....which is not desirable at all operationally. Not going to happen I think

 

[Philip]

OK so Salford Crescent is a no-no for practical reasons, nice as it would be. What about Bolton though?

 

[pemma]

Would they have to call at Salford Central, though?

In the case of Virgin - no. In the case of Northern - they'll have to provide a minimum number of services stopping there.

 

[Philip]

The other thing to bear in mind is that having a Pendolino start and end at Bolton in effect blocks a through line for however long it takes to prepare one for service.....which is not desirable at all operationally. Not going to happen I think

What about platforms 2 or 5?

 

[Moonshot]

What about platforms 2 or 5?

Platform 2 is a bay platform.....which wont cope with more than 4 coaches......and if by some chance a pendolino is parked there, it would foul 2 junctions and a main running line....not going to happen

 

[Philip]

Platform 2 is a bay platform.....which wont cope with more than 4 coaches......and if by some chance a pendolino is parked there, it would foul 2 junctions and a main running line....not going to happen

And platform 5? The other thought is a Preston to London via Chorley, Bolton and Manchester if Bolton can't accommodate terminating long trains.

 

[Moonshot]

OK so Salford Crescent is a no-no for practical reasons, nice as it would be. What about Bolton though?

Only if an open access operator with a 6 car service which starts at Blackpool and calls at Bolton. J Collins will know more than I do if that is on the table somewhere......I doubt it is however.

 

[Moonshot]

And platform 5? The other thought is a Preston to London via Chorley, Bolton and Manchester if Bolton can't accommodate terminating long trains.

Platform 5 is in effect a loop Northbound.....it cannot be accessed southbound I think.

 

[WatcherZero]

Last update was Virgin were considering extending one morning and evening service per day from Piccadilly originating/terminating at Bolton, they would be early morning and late evening outside peaks.

It would in essence be continuing/coming out of service from Preston and formed from a train otherwise operating on a Preston to London diagram.

 

[Moonshot]

Last update was Virgin were considering extending one morning and evening service per day from Piccadilly originating/terminating at Bolton, they would be early morning and late evening outside peaks.

Not quite sure what they would achieve by this

 

[snowball]

Some weeks ago in the Blackpool-Manchester electrification thread, a plan of the new layout at Bolton was posted showing platform 5 as bidirectional, and Joseph Locke said it could accommodate an 11-car Pendo.

 

[pemma]

Only if an open access operator with a 6 car service which starts at Blackpool and calls at Bolton. J Collins will know more than I do if that is on the table somewhere......I doubt it is however.

The track applications for the Blackpool to London services indicate they would run via Warrington if approved, not via Bolton. WatcherZero has given the plan for Bolton in post 13.

 

[Moonshot]

Last update was Virgin were considering extending one morning and evening service per day from Piccadilly originating/terminating at Bolton, they would be early morning and late evening outside peaks.

It would in essence be continuing/coming out of service from Preston and interworking with a Preston to London service.

Now that I have seen your full post, whats the calling pattern for that? I guess there is a time penalty for Preston passengers to London

 

[WatcherZero]

Wouldnt be in service between Preston and Bolton, it would be a train coming from London terminating in Preston then originating the normally Pic origin service from Bolton and vice versa.

Operating in service between bolton and Preston would be certainly rejected for abstraction.

 

[Moonshot]

Wouldnt be in service between Preston and Bolton, it would be a train coming from London terminating in Preston then originating the normally Pic origin service from Bolton and vice versa.

Operating in service between bolton and Preston would be certainly rejected for abstraction.

Hardly seems worth the effort then......when you consider that even with the upgrade of line speed there will still be less than optimal parts of the network locally for that.

 

[WatcherZero]

Its a token direct day return train, like how the blackpools started.

 

[Philip]

Wouldnt be in service between Preston and Bolton, it would be a train coming from London terminating in Preston then originating the normally Pic origin service from Bolton and vice versa.

Operating in service between bolton and Preston would be certainly rejected for abstraction.

Will the southbound working from Bolton be in the evening?

 

[Moonshot]

Its a token direct day return train, like how the blackpools started.

ok so clearly not 1 per hour then. So in reality Bolton to London pax change at Pic or possibly Wigan NW with the exception of one token service.

 

[WatcherZero]

As i said, virgin were considering one per day.

 

[cle]

Is there really demand? It'd trundle to Piccadilly, where the many others begin anyway. I don't see that much time benefit, or huge demand. They could also go via Wigan with comparable journey times.

 

[edwin_m]

The other thing to bear in mind is that having a Pendolino start and end at Bolton in effect blocks a through line for however long it takes to prepare one for service.....which is not desirable at all operationally. Not going to happen I think

It could be prepared elsewhere, arrive ECS and depart after a short stop, or arrive in service and depart ECS after a slightly longer stop while staff check that all passengers have alighted, or make a normal stop if in service to/from Preston. The long stop would only apply if it was the terminating point of a passenger service and then formed another service.

 

[Philip]

It could be prepared elsewhere, arrive ECS and depart after a short stop, or arrive in service and depart ECS after a slightly longer stop while staff check that all passengers have alighted, or make a normal stop if in service to/from Preston. The long stop would only apply if it was the terminating point of a passenger service and then formed another service.

Surely the demand will be no less than that of Wigan, considering the similar sizes of both places?

 

[pemma]

Surely the demand will be no less than that of Wigan, considering the similar sizes of both places?

According to NRE Bolton station has 0 parking spaces, while Wigan North Western has 418. If you lived in Atherton and planned to drive to a station with a direct London service (as many people do) you'd drive to Wigan even if Bolton had an hourly London service.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

Hey - whoa whoa whoa whoa! Say what now? Virgin are planning direct services to Bolton??!

 

[Ianno87]

The point is, extending one southbound (presumably) morning Manchester-Euston service back from Preston via Bolton and correspondingly a return evening Manchester service on to Preston via Bolton costs Virgin relatively little to provide in marginal time, as it's a set that would otherwise simply head from or to Longsight.

Its easy to terminate out of the way at Preston than it is at Bolton.

There is reasonable demand between Bolton and London. Not enough to fill a train at a particular time, but if Virgin can do it at relatively little added operational cost, they might as well.

If timed right, it could even provide some handy extra peak capacity between Bolton and Manchester.

 

[swt_passenger]

It could be prepared elsewhere, arrive ECS and depart after a short stop, or arrive in service and depart ECS after a slightly longer stop while staff check that all passengers have alighted, or make a normal stop if in service to/from Preston. The long stop would only apply if it was the terminating point of a passenger service and then formed another service.

This isn't a world away from the VTEC "one each way" service Sunderland to Kings Cross. 15 mins (0525-0540) and 17 mins (2320-2337) sitting in the station respectively...