Bolton to Manchester United Football Ground

[ffcphone]

As a season ticket holder living in Bolton, I have travelled to games via train and then Metrolink from Deansgate (G-Mex tram stop). I have been able to buy a through ticket from Bolton station for something like £4.20 offpeak return.

With the Metrolink service alterations, for the last two games of the current season, I decided to give the Northern Rail service from Piccadilly direct to the ground a go.

When I turned up at Bolton the ticket office informed me Manchester United Football Ground had been deleted as a destination on their ticket machines and I could not therefore buy a through ticket. I was advised to try and buy one on the train or to purchase a £3 return to Manchester and then purchase the additional ticket at Piccadilly.

Was this correct information?

Also, National Rail Enquiries website suggests a through ticket from Bolton to MUFC (return) is £6. That sounds a bit steep to me.

Finally, does anyone know whether System One Travelcards and/or the GMPTE Rail Rover tickets are valid for travel to MUFC? Bolton ticket office did not think so but as it is a public service run by Northern Rail within GMPTE I just wondered if this was correct.

Many thanks.

F

 

[glynn80]

Well the advice given, to buy one ticket to Manchester Stns and then one ticket from Manchester Stns to Manchester FC, is the correct advise as stated in the FRPP.

Manchester United Football Ground Halt *

* Open match and special event days only

Fares

Unless a through fare exists from the customers point of departure the following ticket issuing procedure must be followed:

· Issue the customer with the relevant single or return to Manchester Stns.

· Issue the customer with a Off Peak Single or Off Peak Day return ticket from the relevant Manchester Station, the price of which is £3.00 (CDS) or (CDR).

Discounts

Child discounts are available.

Railcard discounts are available.

Traincards, Countycards, Cheap Evening Returns, Daysavers, GM Rail Rangers, PTE Free Passes and GMPTE Wayfarer are not valid.

Services

Non timetabled trains operate to the Manchester United Football Ground Halt on most match days and for certain other special events ONLY.

However the fares do seem expensive.

The fares are in fact listed between Bolton and Manchester United FC in the FRPP and are:
Anytime Day Single 6.50
Off Peak Day Single 6.10
Off Peak Day Return 6.20

These do seem pretty steep to me as the fares from Bolton to Trafford Park (one stop past FC) are:
Anytime Day Single 3.50
Anytime Day Return 5.90
Off Peak Day Single 3.10
Off Peak Day Return 3.20
Super Off Peak Day Single 1.60
Seven Day Season 22.40

I can only assume that GMPTE do not subsidise fares to Manchester FC and thus this is the reason they are higher than other fares within the Manchester area.

Whether or not a ticket to Trafford Park would be accepted, I do not know but there doesn't seem to be anything written in the rules to state it wouldn't be.

 

[clagmonster]

From Bolton, you should have been issued a cheap day return, priced at £6.20. The destination on this is Manchester FC (code MUF). As the halt is located on the spur into Trafford Park liner terminal, would it not be classed as being on a seperate line to the line to Liverpool which Trafford Park station is situated on, therefore making the Trafford Park ticket invalid (a little bit like getting a ticket to Stockport and allighting at Ardwick, you would pass the station on an adjacent line going to Stockport but never actually pass through it).
Having used the service both before and after my visit with Hull City, I must say that I service to be very good, and I successfully purchased my ticket from Doncaster booking office the day before the game, so it was evidentally in the ticketing system then. The combination splitting in Manchester works out at exactly the same price, so you didn't lose or gain anything, apart from having to queue twice.

 

[glynn80]

From Bolton, you should have been issued a cheap day return, priced at £6.20. The destination on this is Manchester FC (code MUF). As the halt is located on the spur into Trafford Park liner terminal, would it not be classed as being on a seperate line to the line to Liverpool which Trafford Park station is situated on, therefore making the Trafford Park ticket invalid (a little bit like getting a ticket to Stockport and allighting at Ardwick, you would pass the station on an adjacent line going to Stockport but never actually pass through it).
Having used the service both before and after my visit with Hull City, I must say that I service to be very good, and I successfully purchased my ticket from Doncaster booking office the day before the game, so it was evidentally in the ticketing system then. The combination splitting in Manchester works out at exactly the same price, so you didn't lose or gain anything, apart from having to queue twice.

I am looking at both current and old OS maps and it clearly shows the station both before the spur to Trafford Park Liner Terminal and with a rail connection onto Trafford Park station. This current satellite image shows the same
http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?oe=ut...nkCA&sa=X&oi=geocode_result&ct=image&resnum=1

But then when I look at this Wikipedia image it seems to contradict and show no lines from the MCFC Halt onto the Liverpool line
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/4f/Manchester_United_Halt.JPG

I can only presume that there was previously a connection onto the Liverpool line but this has since been taken up. Can anyone with a Quail Map confirm?

I have no idea whether Northern have a special ticketing arrangement for these extra services, which is why I am unsure if normal tickets are accepted but from the last image it seems that tickets to Trafford Park would not be valid.

 

[clagmonster]

Accoridng to Quail there is no crossover from back onto the Liverpool line. On the satelite view where is there such a crossover, as I can't see one? I can't see any way that Trafford Park tickets would be valid.

 

[glynn80]

Accoridng to Quail there is no crossover from back onto the Liverpool line. On the satelite view where is there such a crossover, as I can't see one? I can't see any way that Trafford Park tickets would be valid.

Oh sorry, I wasn't saying the OS maps or satellite images showed the crossover, only that they showed the station before the spur to the liner terminal turns off.

 

[clagmonster]

Ah right, I see. I suspect the reason for that is that there is another pair of crossovers to access the liner terminal just after the platform, presumably so that trains can enter whilst a train is at the platform.

 

[John @ home]

Accoridng to Quail there is no crossover from back onto the Liverpool line.

My copy of Quail [1] shows that there is a crossover to the west (Trafford Park side) of the Manchester United Football Ground platform. But the crossover is in the 'wrong' direction and a train could not travel between Trafford Park and Manchester United Football Ground without reversing.

On the other hand, it would be perfectly possible for a train to travel, with reversals, between the two stations without passing through any other railway station. I don't think any Fares Manual addresses this issue.

John

[1] Diagram 46, Quail Track Diagrams - 4: Midlands and North West, 2nd ed., Trackmaps, Bradford on Avon, 2005.

 

[clagmonster]

Yes, thats what I meant. Sorry if I worded it badly.

 

[ffcphone]

Thanks for your very useful responses. It would seem the ticket office at Bolton was correct to suggest I purchase a ticket from Bolton to Mcr Stns and then purchase a further ticket at that point from Mcr Stns to MUF. Mind you, the cost of £6 compares unfavourably with the through return ticket using rail and Metrolink to Exchange Quay, for example.

The explicit non-acceptance of Rail Ranger tickets clears up the possibility of buying a £4 ticket to cover my travel also.

As to the Trafford Park ticket debate, aside from arguing over technicalities, it would seem safe to assume a Trafford Park ticket would not be accepted.

So, just as in most other areas of supporting a top Premier Leage side, the rail system gets in on the act of ripping me off also!

Thanks for all the info though.

F

 

[clagmonster]

I don't think the Bolton ticket office were correct though. A through ticket would have cost you exactly the same, and you wouldn't have had the hassle of rebooking. If you take tha route again, and the claim the halt isn't in the system, politely ask them to try the destination code MUF.

 

[ffcphone]

I suspect if I take that route again in the new season, I'll buy a return to Manchester Stations and then await the conductor to come down the train on the second leg. I usually have less than 5 minutes for my train to arrive at Piccadilly and then the other train depart, albeit a very short walk from P13 to P14. Of course, being packed full of football fans, it's unlikely the conductor would make it down the train. But there's a limit to how much inconvenience I should be put through to pay double the cost for a journey when, as has been advised above, a longer journey would be cheaper. Surely Northern Rail should be encouraging football fans out of their cars and onto the rail network? A pleasant trip to Old Trafford might well result in "repeat business" on other non-football related expeditions.

On a side issue, and not relevant to ticketing, does anyone know whether the 3 football specials each way are booked to be formed of specific numbers of coaches in advance or is it whatever Northern have lying around at the time? Weekend before last the first special was a 6 coach unit whereas this weekend just gone the second special was a 3 car unit.

F

 

[clagmonster]

Can you not make the connection at Oxford Rd. I remember that when we went to Old Trafford, and I also noticed on Saturday on my way to Bolton, that one of the specials didn't stop at Deansgate, but as far as I know all stop at Oxford Rd. Why not buy a through ticket, as you will surely have to pay at the turnstile at the ground on the way back, and a single is the same price as a cheap day return?

 

[charley_17/7]

Usually the specials are 3-car sets, the first or last trip towards the Ground is usually a double (6-car) set (2x323), likewise the first/last trip away is double. This has been affected recently by the shortage of 323 traction. Diagrams for these specials are written last minute (known as STP), and usually fail to meet Network Rail Rules of the Route/Plan.

GMPTE do not subsidise these services for good reason. MUFC has pots of money (sorry, debt!).

GMPTE has asked MU to financially support, along with Peel Holdings, construction of the Trafford Park Metrolink, which they have been unwilling to do.

Conductors do not do revenue duties on MUFC 'specials', tickets are purchased at the barriers (Piccadilly, Oxford Rd or MUFC Halt).

 

[ffcphone]

Can you not make the connection at Oxford Rd. I remember that when we went to Old Trafford, and I also noticed on Saturday on my way to Bolton, that one of the specials didn't stop at Deansgate, but as far as I know all stop at Oxford Rd. Why not buy a through ticket, as you will surely have to pay at the turnstile at the ground on the way back, and a single is the same price as a cheap day return?

The two football specials I have taken have not been timetabled to call at Deansgate. In all honesty, the 3 car units are jam-packed on departure from Piccadilly and therefore even calling at Oxford Road to take on additional passengers is a little optimistic. Hence I'd rather try and increase my chances of boarding so I travel to the service origination at Piccadilly.

As to the issue of "through" tickets, as you may have noted in my first post in this thread, Bolton station refused to sell me one citing the fact MUFC had been "deleted" from their ticketing machines and I was therefore sold a ticket to Manchester stations and asked to purchase another one at that stage out to MUFC.

F
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Usually the specials are 3-car sets, the first or last trip towards the Ground is usually a double (6-car) set (2x323), likewise the first/last trip away is double. This has been affected recently by the shortage of 323 traction. Diagrams for these specials are written last minute (known as STP), and usually fail to meet Network Rail Rules of the Route/Plan.

GMPTE do not subsidise these services for good reason. MUFC has pots of money (sorry, debt!).

GMPTE has asked MU to financially support, along with Peel Holdings, construction of the Trafford Park Metrolink, which they have been unwilling to do.

Conductors do not do revenue duties on MUFC 'specials', tickets are purchased at the barriers (Piccadilly, Oxford Rd or MUFC Halt).

Thanks for the unit diagram info. I suspected as much.

As to GMPTE subsidy this is an interesting point. Why shouldn't GMPTE subsidise this 3 train each way service in the same was as other passenger services? It's taken 3 trains worth of passenger's vehicles of roads into Old Trafford at a time when such routes would be extremely busy. I guess the majority of the train's users will be resident in the GMPTE ticekting area and therefore council taxes will be paid towards subsidy. I don't see the services any differently to any other passenger service. So why not?

On first mention of the Trafford Park Metrolink extension spur was there not an uproar from city centre traders concerned at shoppers being tempted out to the Trafford Centre and thus, from a political standpoint, this spur was further reviewed and it was decided to ask Peel Holdings, the owners of Trafford Park, to contribute? However, surely GMPTE should be providing transport links beneficial to movement of the public to popular places of interest and strategic commuter points? Did commerce at Exchange Quay and the areas around Harbour City contribute to the Eccles spur? Will Manchester City be paying for a stop close to the City of Manchester stadium?

I wasn't aware United had been asked to contribute towards the Metrolink extension but am hardly surprised they have refused. They must follow my argument whether that be right or wrong.

Returning to an earlier posting, the issue of gate checks and tickets is interesting. Getting off the train at MUFC the last couple of weeks there have been no barrier checks and with no inspections on the train itself, doubtless those that can reach the departure platform without a ticket to MUFC will try and pull a fast one. Coming back after the match, however, ticket inspections do take place at the barriers at MUFC although it would seem anyone waving a ticket in the right general direction was allowed onto the platform without much indepth checking. Looking at some of the folk and listening to what those around me were saying, a number did not have tickets to MUFC itself but rather tickets to Manchester stations only, perhaps experiencing the same problems I had in getting "through" tickets.

F

 

[clagmonster]

The through fare from Bolton does exist in the system, and I have managed to purchase the ticket was other stations before. I feel staff are probably mistaken.
Through fares only exist from the GM subsidy area, strangely, so anyone from out of that area will have been sold a ticket to Manchester stations, and either the additional ticket at the same time or late. Of course, many will just buy the Manchester stations ticket and nothing more, knowing they can get away with it. The barrier checking on my visit was as you describe. Indeed, I suspect this is why Northern are losing money on the service.

 

[ffcphone]

Another reason why, in my opinion, something akin to the Oyster Card system in London would be hugely beneficial in GMPTE. I've no idea how much installing the necessary infrastructure would be and the benefits this would bring in terms of fare evasion but you would have thought, at the very least, some form of barrier control at busy stations is the optimum way forward. It's far too easy to board most trains at Piccadilly unchallenged by ticket staff and if the conductor on your train is slow or can't be bothered and/or you sit as far from him/her as possible and/of if your journey is short, a free ride can be had. I see this happening so many times particularly with younger members of our community who you just know haven't got a ticket yet get away with it.

Going back to the MUFC question, next season I'll see if I can purchase a through ticket from Bolton.

F