I crossed it back in 2021. No sign of any frontier police (it was late) which meant no one to hand the Covid Passenger Locator Form to.
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Border protocols at "Schengen" borders
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AlbertBeale
Established Member
I'm struggling to figure out the route of this on a map......
Aha - thanks - got it! Sounds like a fascinating ride. I wonder how the trains to Deutschkreutz got through in Iron Curtain times? (Though of course Austria wasn't part of NATO - still isn't on account of post-WW2 treaties - but was seen as within the western "sphere".)
The last time I arrived by train at Basel SNCF - a couple of years back - and "walked into Switzerland", the moveable barriers were open (not that there were enough to properly seal off the area anyway), and one random security person was hanging around showing no interest in anyone or anything. When seeing the situation later, from the Swiss side (though I wasn't "crossing" that time), it looked much the same - ie completely laid back.
However, on a through train from France into Switzerland nearly 60 years ago, after arriving in Basel there was a fair bit of officialdom running around, and then after quite a wait the train was shunted along into the Swiss platforms, where there were - if I remember right - more formalities or delays before we got going again. (I remember the occasion quite well because it was on a school trip, and it was the first time I'd heard the German word "Achtung!" used [German wasn't one of my school subjects] - it was because there were people on the platform near the train, and it was about to be shunted along a bit. But my only existing concept of the word was that from cartoon strips about WW2 in comics, where it was used in, eg, the middle of an aerial dogfight. Hence I got into a panic for a few moments when a woman near me on the platform called out "Achtung!".)
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I did it, and it was pretty eerie.
The train stopped at the Austrian-Hungarian border, and after formalities set off with a gun toting Hungarian soldier hanging off the back of the train on each side (I didn't see what may have been going on at the front). Off again the other side, and the same in reverse.
Safe to say they had things covered!
Google found me this:
Relation: REX6 Bratislava-P. – Wien – Deutschkreutz (3774036)
OpenStreetMap is a map of the world, created by people like you and free to use under an open license.
www.openstreetmap.org
The Menton-Garavan stop (I think it's this one rather than the main station) on the way from Ventimiglia can be quite disconcerting. The track has a significant camber to ease through running so during the passport check the train was stopped at an angle for quite a long time!
Possibly OT but on my way way back from Sardinia to Aberystwyth (same journey) I was profiled for the ferry from Porto Torres to Genova (I'm white). All the men were ordered off the shuttle bus at the security point; they checked the passports of the other men and waved them through. I had to have my luggage screened and go through security gates. I suppose a man with a big beard, a big rucksack and not many Italian language skills must have aroused their suspicions! Yay for racial equality (of inconvenience) but this was on a non-stop domestic journey between 2 ports within the Italian border! I wonder if any other countries do such checks on internal journeys?
Possibly OT but on my way way back from Sardinia to Aberystwyth (same journey) I was profiled for the ferry from Porto Torres to Genova (I'm white). All the men were ordered off the shuttle bus at the security point; they checked the passports of the other men and waved them through. I had to have my luggage screened and go through security gates. I suppose a man with a big beard, a big rucksack and not many Italian language skills must have aroused their suspicions! Yay for racial equality (of inconvenience) but this was on a non-stop domestic journey between 2 ports within the Italian border! I wonder if any other countries do such checks on internal journeys?
Yes, the UK does it on Scotland - NI ferries. I've also heard of it happening on domestic flights but not sure if that was a reliable source.
I've never had it done on my Sail Rail journeys from Cairnryan to NI.
Domestic flights only check when you have baggage in the hold.
nwales58
Member
'Korridorzug'.
Not just Iron Curtain, Innsbruck-Lienz trains ran as Korridorzüge through Italy.
I never used it so I don't know the procedures but Deutschkreutz, which then ran on to Oberpullendorf, obviously was different to prevent illegal boarding/leaving on Hungarian territory.
Zittau-Görlitz was another similar. Even within the communist bloc borders were hard because, in the DDR at least, everyone needed a visa to leave the country in any direction.
In the 1980s and early 90s at least you passed a police, probably special branch, chap when bording and leaving planes to/from Northern Ireland generally. Don't know about ports as I never used the ferries. They also met flights from Dublin in the 80s. Not many people were stopped.
Remember the UK used to have internal exile, you could be banned from entering GB by the home secretary.
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duesselmartin
Established Member
used Stena from Belfast to Stranraer on several occations from 1996 to 2001. Never had any major security checks as a foot passenger. Not even an ID check.
Cars were checked below with mirrors.
As to rail, the Belfast to Dublin Enterprise also had no checks whatsoever, despite it being a target in the past.
Cars were checked below with mirrors.
As to rail, the Belfast to Dublin Enterprise also had no checks whatsoever, despite it being a target in the past.
signed
Member
Not Schengen but the foot passengers had a full border control by the Gardai on arrival at Dublin from Holyhead when I went
Yes, have had UK Border Force check passports at Belfast Port.
When was that?
signed
Member
June 12th this year, the Gardai post at T1 (Irish Ferries) was manned and they scanned IDs for the Ulysses arrival
Sir Felix Pole
Member
Full passport check (including locals' IDs) on the bus from Vigo (ES) to Porto (PT) this a.m. at Valenca. Also pulled in by the equivalent of DVSA inspectors on the Spanish side checking tacho etc. Delayed by 60 mins as result. Had intended to take the train but didn't get up in time!
StephenHunter
Established Member
Coming back from Milan and getting the EC train to Basel, Italian police and soldiers were standing the middle of the platform (the rear unit being locked out of use until Domodossola) doing passport checks. I held open my passport to the photo page and was allowed straight through.
Possibly because I'm a blond white guy... in three cases, people spoke to me immediately in English.
Possibly because I'm a blond white guy... in three cases, people spoke to me immediately in English.
Sir Felix Pole
Member
Just our bus - it was detailed scan of every passport too, rather than a cursory flip through. The bus was marketed by ALSA, but run by a local Portuguese company so all very odd wrt the tacho.
riceuten
Member
- Joined
- 23 May 2018
- Messages
- 648
A few years ago, my partner and I were staying on Pontevedra and decided on a day trip to Tuy by bus, which lies directly on the Spanish/Portuguese border. Whilst we were there, and admiring the Gustav Eiffel built bridge across the Minho, I suggested we walk to Valença do Minho - a very pleasant walled city in Portugal - about 2km away - across the pedestrian deck. My other half was a bit uneasy as she didn’t have a passport or ID with her, but we weren’t stopped in either direction. However, the following day we took a train from Vigo to Porto, and when we got to Valença, there was a full passport inspection on the train - Schengen notwithstanding. Seems we were just lucky the day before.
We had a very unpleasant experience going to Germany recently - on the Luxembourgish border, the CFL run bus was detained for 25 minutes whilst they painstakingly checked everyone’s passport or ID card, and photographed them. About 30% of the passengers had no ID on them at all, and…the border police did nothing at all. It was all for show. Elections next year and being crappy to foreigners wins votes. I suspect they (the Grenzpolizei) didn’t want to complete the (no doubt voluminous) paperwork.
France will be joining in this idiocy in a week’s time.
We had a very unpleasant experience going to Germany recently - on the Luxembourgish border, the CFL run bus was detained for 25 minutes whilst they painstakingly checked everyone’s passport or ID card, and photographed them. About 30% of the passengers had no ID on them at all, and…the border police did nothing at all. It was all for show. Elections next year and being crappy to foreigners wins votes. I suspect they (the Grenzpolizei) didn’t want to complete the (no doubt voluminous) paperwork.
France will be joining in this idiocy in a week’s time.
nwales58
Member
I’ve been on coaches checked in Portugal, though done by GNR traffic police, twice I think. Between Elvas and Evora on RedeExpresssos, the national long distance operator, tacho then police slowly reading through a ring binder and checking fire extinguishers. Our driver seemed rather nervous. They stopped an Alsa too.
Sir Felix Pole
Member
Yes, the ring binder was much scrutinised too. Curiously after the inspection the driver pulled into the next layby and made some 'adjustments' to the tacho - all very odd! Returned to Vigo from Porto yesterday by train - no Spanish border checks. My plans to tour northern Portugal have been stymied by the CP strike all this week.
P Binnersley
Member
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- 30 Dec 2018
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- 466
Not that eerie. The soldier let me take his photo! (late 1980's)
That was definitely not the vibe in the early 80s!
Cloud Strife
Established Member
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Corridor trains in those times were found on quite a few sensitive borders, so the usual process was to place guards at the ends of each train, along with possibly a guard between carriages. Window blinds would also be pulled down on some borders. The process wasn't that arduous, as the trains were checked before and after the corridor journey.
No, not quite. The DDR and Poland had visa-free travel from 1972-1980 with just their identity cards, and I believe the DDR and Czechoslovakia maintained visa free access along the same lines until October 1989. It was only the Soviet Union that maintained a 'hard' border with their so-called friends.
Zittau-Görlitz never had the same level of paranoia, nor did the Liberec-Görlitz connection. The PRL generally was a bit more laid back in this sense, the only thing they did at Krzewina Zgorzelecka was to make sure the passengers destined for Ostritz actually went straight across the border.
In April 1991, about 6 months after reunification, I travelled on the Fichtelbergbahn narrow gauge steam line from Cranzahl to Oberwiesenthal. The last 5km or so of the line runs close to a narrow stream which forms the border with Czechia and back then I was a little surprised that apart from the occasional marker stone there was nothing to show it was the border - anyone wanting to jump across the stream could have easily done so and presumably they could still do so today?
nwales58
Member
We’re a long time before Schengen, but …
that was also the case on the odd bit of the DDR-BRD border according to TV documentaries I’ve seen. The stream running down from the Eckertalsperre IIRC had only markers and no fence.On the DDR side the Sperrzone and border guard patrolling made it secure.
Strictly speaking, East German territory was accessible from the west all the way along the border, except where the border ran through water. All the border fortifications were built within DDR territory if for no other reason than to enable maintenance work on the western side to take place. Now to switch pedant mode off again!!!
nwales58
Member
Back on Schengen, a land border can be secure, but does a democracy want the cost?
Well a large number of voters in one major democracy (though stretching the definition there, it's objectively a "flawed democracy" think that Mexico will pay for border fortifications.
StephenHunter
Established Member
However, the West Germans would put warning signs just ahead of the border saying "Halt! Hier Grenze!" or a variation. American soldiers were barred from getting closer than 1km from East Germany or Czechoslovakia unless specifically authorised.
Sir Felix Pole
Member
No issues on the international express - well one coach DMU actually - from Badajoz (ES) to Entrocamento (PT) this p.m. There was some bureaucratic paperwork going on between the driver and the Jefe of Badajoz station , however, before dispatch.
Lightly loaded from Badajoz - a few punters from the Madrid Alvia - but then steadily picked up locals in Portugal all the way. I was beginning to regret the beer I had in the cantina at Badajoz as we rocked and rolled along but fortunately there was a loo!
Lightly loaded from Badajoz - a few punters from the Madrid Alvia - but then steadily picked up locals in Portugal all the way. I was beginning to regret the beer I had in the cantina at Badajoz as we rocked and rolled along but fortunately there was a loo!
dutchflyer
Established Member
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Frankly, sorry to say so, but the view from the continent=the other side of the North-Sea from your island since it left EU is that controls to enter there are much as you describe. PLUS that one needs a real passport-book, the trusty ID will not work anymore-probably as its unknown over there.
Controls like that were common when I went to UK/GB in whatever coach (long-dist. bus) after it had just come off the ferry in my younger years. Would probably take even more time as described here.
Having myself entered DE from NL at least 1/week last monthes on my DE-cheap monthly: was only once briefly asked to show some ID. I was wondering as to how young a lot of this GP=GrenzPolizei were looking. And how they could organize such many teams on the dozens of rail+road crossings into DE.