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Boris is talking up Crossrail 2

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Basil Jet

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Trust someone called Boris to bring the dead back to life.

He said: “The real thing for us now is to think about Crossrail 2, the old Chelsea-Hackney line. That is going to be transformative again. All the problems of commuters coming into Waterloo getting up to north London, you can fix that with another Crossrail. I think we should be getting on with that.”

https://www.hertfordshiremercury.co.uk/news/hertfordshire-news/boris-johnson-says-we-should-7095108

I'll believe it when I see it (which is still my policy on Crossrail 1, incidentally).
 
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SynthD

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It’s a political ploy, though about three weeks late. It’s barely transport news, until he invites Dix back to the parliamentary bill planning stage.
 

yoyothehobo

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The fact that Boris is talking about it, is generally a dead certainty that it will never happen.
 

ijmad

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I mean, as a Londoner, yay!

But it doesn't seem fair to have cancelled HS3 and other projects in the North only to commit 20 billion to this...
 
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camflyer

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Surely CR2 is inevitable. Work on it should continued as the.second phase of CR1 otherwise a lot of the lessons learned will be lost.

If CR2 isn't built then what is plan b?
 

muddythefish

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Johnson telling people what they want to hear does sound familiar. I'm not sure how it fits in with his "levelling up" agenda though. I'm sure there's a good case for Crossrail2 but the good folk of Tyne Valley and elsewhere who voted for him at the last election might not be happy.
 

2192

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Of course he inherited it [hs2] like he inherited Crossrail One ;)
and Boris Bikes, [and Thameslink?].
Boris talking about Crossrail 2 is just to deflect attention away from Partygate and everything else.
Didn't he refer in initial publicity stunts as HS2 going to the London Borough of Birmingham?
 

JonathanH

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Surely CR2 is inevitable. Work on it should continued as the.second phase of CR1 otherwise a lot of the lessons learned will be lost.

If CR2 isn't built then what is plan b?
CR2 might be inevitable but it could well not be started until HS2 is finished - ie well into the 2050s. That is it needs to take its natural turn in the funding of transport projects, and currently the availability funding is concentrated on HS2 and other parts of the Integrated Rail Plan through to the 2040s.

Levelling up was only important when the main battleground was the Red Wall. The focus is now turning to defending seats in the South. Chesham and Amersham anyone?
I dont think Crossrail 2 is a political battleground that will change electoral fortunes. No political party could genuinely commit to funding it right now. Positive words don't cost money. Construction projects do. If work starts in the 2050s, Crossrail 2 will be irrelevant to almost all of the current workforce.
 
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stuu

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Surely CR2 is inevitable. Work on it should continued as the.second phase of CR1 otherwise a lot of the lessons learned will be lost.

If CR2 isn't built then what is plan b?
CR2 is one of the only serious rail plans that I think is a stupid idea. It tries to do too many things at once and does none of them properly. What is it for, fundamentally?
 

JonathanH

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What is it for, fundamentally?
Providing more capacity for services in South West London than can be accommodated at Waterloo and diverting custom from the Northern and Victoria lines, all of which had overcrowding issues.
 

stuu

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Providing more capacity for services in South West London than can be accommodated at Waterloo and diverting custom from the Northern and Victoria lines, all of which had overcrowding issues.
Yes, and it does neither of those very well. There will need to be a significant level of service into Waterloo as well as to CR2 as many passengers want to go to the City/Docklands, as going via Tottenham Court Road and changing to Crossrail will overload that. I've always thought that was a major failing.
 

zwk500

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Yes, and it does neither of those very well. There will need to be a significant level of service into Waterloo as well as to CR2 as many passengers want to go to the City/Docklands, as going via Tottenham Court Road and changing to Crossrail will overload that. I've always thought that was a major failing.
It's not a confirmed route yet, there's still quite a few decisions still to be made.
Surely CR2 is inevitable.
It's not inevitable - much depends on the long-term travel patterns once COVID and Brexit have bed in, but this may yet not become clear for many years. However, I do think it will be built as it's the only realistic way to release a sizeable amount of platform capacity at Waterloo.
Work on it should continued as the.second phase of CR1 otherwise a lot of the lessons learned will be lost.
Work is continuing on a strategic level.
If CR2 isn't built then what is plan b?
There isn't really one, it's the only remaining corridor to fit in an underground railway in London. I suppose Plan B would be something like Hover Pods or similar.
 

stuu

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It's not a confirmed route yet, there's still quite a few decisions still to be made.
In what sense? It has been designed to pretty much every detail. Obviously that can change but that would add years to the process (not that it is very likely)
 

rower40

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My 2p:
A bit of "wait and see" would be appropriate here, just 3 days before the Elizabeth line opens to paying customers.
Interchange at Farringdon between Crossrail and Thameslink may turn out to be a game-changer (or bottleneck?) for other Cross-London journeys that would otherwise involve the tube. Such as Oxford-Cambridge? With the development/design/tunnelling/construction/commissioning/testing of Crossrail taking over a decade, a few more days/weeks delay in actually determining WHERE people's journey plans take them would be time-well-spent.
 

nw1

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The fact that Boris is talking about it, is generally a dead certainty that it will never happen.

"BorisRail". Picturing a 200mph express underground line from Uxbridge to central London, guaranteeing that he holds the seat. Or, he could start it back from Chequers, which is in the same general geographical area, with one stop at Uxbridge. His compartment would of course be segregated from the general oiks. ;)
 

Mikey C

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It would be bizarre to financially commit to CR2 at the moment, as Covid and home working has made major changes to work and travel patterns. Commuter numbers into London are likely to be permanently down, which will affect the viability of the scheme
 

507020

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"BorisRail". Picturing a 200mph express underground line from Uxbridge to central London, guaranteeing that he holds the seat. Or, he could start it back from Chequers, which is in the same general geographical area, with one stop at Uxbridge. His compartment would of course be segregated from the general oiks. ;)
You can’t be serious. 200mph won’t get rid of him anywhere near fast enough for Uxbridge and certainly not Chequers. It must be built for at least 300mph if not 400mph. I’m assuming it would also be more comfortable and quieter than the Hover Pods
 

WesternBiker

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It would be bizarre to financially commit to CR2 at the moment, as Covid and home working has made major changes to work and travel patterns. Commuter numbers into London are likely to be permanently down, which will affect the viability of the scheme
My 2p:
A bit of "wait and see" would be appropriate here, just 3 days before the Elizabeth line opens to paying customers.
Interchange at Farringdon between Crossrail and Thameslink may turn out to be a game-changer (or bottleneck?) for other Cross-London journeys that would otherwise involve the tube.
I agree with both of those. Although I'd like to see CR2 make progress (living in Wimbledon), I can see that post-pandemic commuter patterns are going to have to settle first, to see what long-term impact there is on demand - and the extent to which the pre-pandemic overcrowding in the peaks remains a problem once the 701s are in service (whenever that is).
 

gingerheid

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Boris Johnson says 'we should be getting on' with Crossrail 2 set to run between Hertfordshire and Surrey
The Prime Minister said the Government would back the proposed north-south rail link across London

This seems like a flat out lie given that they intervened to make sure progress stopped.

Oh wait...

we should be looking at tax increment financing”

I guess it's easy to support an unrealistic and unworkable proposal to the effect that other unknown and unspecified people should pay for something. This only worked for the Northern Line Extension because of the very unique circumstances.

If Crossrail2 was a proposal to extend the line from Chessington South to a new development of 40,000 houses on Epson Common, Ashtead Common, Bunkers Hill and Horns Hill (don't worry, I completely made this impossible development up) then this would definitely be a realistic way of funding it!
 

plugwash

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Such as Oxford-Cambridge?
I suspect doing it with crossrail/thameslink will be slower than getting a fast train to paddington, using the Circle/H&S line to cross London and then getting a fast train to Cambridge.
 

gingerheid

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My 2p:
A bit of "wait and see" would be appropriate here, just 3 days before the Elizabeth line opens to paying customers.
Interchange at Farringdon between Crossrail and Thameslink may turn out to be a game-changer (or bottleneck?) for other Cross-London journeys that would otherwise involve the tube. Such as Oxford-Cambridge? With the development/design/tunnelling/construction/commissioning/testing of Crossrail taking over a decade, a few more days/weeks delay in actually determining WHERE people's journey plans take them would be time-well-spent.

I hope that all the careful testing work that is going on means that Crossrail will be more reliable than Thameslink. However I'm pretty sure that no well informed traveller will want to make a connection onto the Thameslink ECML services at Farringdon, given the chronic unreliability of those services and the availability of fast and much more reliable services from KX.
 
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