Boris Johnson Announcement Discussion - 10/05/20

[Mojo]

Regarding returning to work if you can't work from home, I think this is quite sensible. If we can't reopen factories/labs/garages etc. without a rise in cases, there is no hope for any of the other changes - workplaces need to open first, both as a test, and as the means to provide our livelihoods.

Where is the change from what has been the case for the last seven weeks with this - we were previously told to work from home where possible, but travelling to work if you can’t work from home was always allowed.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Where is the change from what has been the case for the last seven weeks with this - we were previously told to work from home where possible, but travelling to work if you can’t work from home was always allowed.

There's no legal change at all in this regard. In this respect it's a move from "what people actually did" to "what the Government thought they would do". The lockdown was much more successful than expected, despite people bleating about a small number of breaches.

 

[yorksrob]

I'm wondering if something like chapter 11 should be introduced for that sort of industry, allowing them to effectively "go bankrupt" but then re-emerge from it? Most of their landlords could afford to lose the rent.

If it helps them to come back eventually, it may be necessary.

 

[Ivor]

It’s worth pointing out, that myself and many others on the railway are not against “reopening” for want of a better term for commuters etc.

But what we don’t want is a sudden influx from tomorrow, when to be honest there are no plans in place as yet on how to manage the returning numbers.

That will be developed over the next week if we to see a TT change next week.

I too want to see the railway get a decent footfall once more as I may get shifts from the agency as the TOC will need some extra staff occasionally but.....

That’s a selfish point of view as I need an income again but at the expense of lives being lost then I’ll live like many with no work currently.....I just don’t have an answer to any of it.

 

[Ianno87]

But not Eurostar or ferry?

Seemingly not. Although as they only represent a small % of overall arrivals, and from a limited number of countries, not quarantining is adding very little risk compared to air.

 

[Huntergreed]

Seemingly not. Although as they only represent a small % of overall arrivals, and from a limited number of countries, not quarantining is adding very little risk compared to air.

Once people catch wind that they'll be stuck for 2 weeks from air but not via rail or ferry they'll simply take the train or boat. It may take several extra hours but it would certainly beat 2 weeks stuck indoors, I would be surprised if they didn't enforce mandatory testing (once capacity allows) or quarantine from this as well.

 

[abbo1234]

If you do not drive, surely you can take a trip to the coast by train or bus,otherwise its discrimination on people that have not got a car and probably the people that need to get out most.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Seemingly not. Although as they only represent a small % of overall arrivals, and from a limited number of countries, not quarantining is adding very little risk compared to air.

I guess it's also saying we trust France. If that ceased to be the case it might need revisiting.

 

[Bletchleyite]

If you do not drive, surely you can take a trip to the coast by train or bus,otherwise its discrimination on people that have not got a car and probably the people that need to get out most.

Like with shielding, it's sadly not about avoiding discrimination at the moment.

 

[Huntergreed]

If you do not drive, surely you can take a trip to the coast by train or bus,otherwise its discrimination on people that have not got a car and probably the people that need to get out most.

Agreed, they can't keep public transport 'essential work travel only' forever, give it 2-3 months at a push and they'll need to let the masses out and think of some solution

 

[3141]

....he's taking too much influence from them and purely epidemiological scientists who are trained in effective methods to suppress outbreaks like this and, whilst of course it is important to a certain degree, I feel we also need a more well rounded discussion including behavioural scientists, psychologists and mental health experts, experts on the economy and finances, rather than simply medical experts to ensure that all round damage is minimalised as I feel that if we put all our weights on one end of the scale, the death rate will soar from all other causes and this is surely what we should ultimately be preventing, rather than just the spread of this one virus.

You can weigh up all kinds of factors, but there would probably be several different answers, and a lot of disagreement about which was the best line to follow. The most compelling factor will be the economy, and we are at some point going to have to start opening things up again, and the government will be experimenting, because it's impossible to be sure of all the effects that each action may produce. Maybe some restrictions will be removed and then reimposed. We are just going to have to learn to live with the virus, as was said in post #61. That will mean continuing uncertainty of various kinds, and it will be difficult in various ways for all of us. Some people, as is shown by some earlier posts, think everything can be clear with a definite way forward, but I don't think there will be, either in this country or in others, where some will take different routes. There are going to be some tough situations, where people either work and have to take risks, or accept a lower income in order to live more safely. There will be deaths as a result of some of those choices. The virus has pushed us into a world which will be a lot less comfortable, and we aren't going to return to the patterns of life we'd all been used to.

 

[nidave]

It’s worth pointing out, that myself and many others on the railway are not against “reopening” for want of a better term for commuters etc. Even if there is that impression from unions etc

What we don’t want is a sudden influx from tomorrow, when to be honest there are no plans in place as yet on how to manage the returning numbers.

A phased return over the coming weeks/months would be great, with guidelines/passenger management/timetable changes to retain social distancing

That will be developed over the next week if we are to see a TT change next week.

I think that's wishful thinking, this announcement is a godsend to those employers who don't give a damn about their employees safety, most of whom like me will be relying on public transport. I bet Mark Ashley and Tim Martin are rubbing their hands with glee tonight...

 

[ValleyLines142]

There's no way in a months time they can just sit there having not changed anything. The announcement tonight implied that they were willing to wait several months until it is 'safe' to head out, but I refuse to believe there's not at least one person observant enough on the government to realise the serious, serious economic damage this is causing and I can't see them sitting back and letting this happen whilst the future of this country dies away more literally as every day passes. We NEED to get this country moving again, and whilst I appreciate it's important to protect the vulnerable, the government picked the totally wrong approach to lockdown and instead of reasoning with the public tried to terrorise them inside their homes. If we don't do anything until June or July there'll be little to no economy left by the time we fully get out of this and it's my generation that is going to have to clean up this mess because we were too focused on protecting those who it wouldn't affect as badly. I appreciate my views can come across as a little blunt and selfish, and that's not my intention, of course every life lost in this pandemic is a tragedy and I want to prevent any unnecessary deaths if at all possible, but I refuse to watch my country die away simply because the public were too blinded by fear to get it moving again.

Spot on. Could not agree more.

 

[Huntergreed]

Like with shielding, it's sadly not about avoiding discrimination at the moment.

Shielding is done for a good reason as those who are shielding know they are doing it so they can live a long and prosperous life

It'll be a lot tougher to convince the population that certain people can't go out simply because they either chose not to or in some cases can't afford a car.

 

[yorksrob]

Like with shielding, it's sadly not about avoiding discrimination at the moment.

Although in the case of the over 70's, there seemed to be a lot of talk about discrimination last week.

 

[nlogax]

Very telling divergence between Johnson and Nicola Sturgeon who appeared on Scottish screens immediately afterwards with 'Stay Home' emblazoned on displays behind her in case those north of the border were in any doubt of the local plan. That lack of unified UK messaging will become more evident over time.

 

[Cardiff123]

I haven't read through this entire thread, but it's very important to remember that ALL of the measures the PM outlined tonight apply to England ONLY. Apart from quarantining air travellers into the UK, none of the new measures or plans to move out of lockdown he announced apply to Scotland, Wales or Northern Ireland. If you live in Scotland, Wales or Northern Ireland, you now need to get your information on the lockdown and social distancing restrictions from your own devolved governments, as the 4 UK nations are now all diverging and taking different approaches on how to deal with the virus.

The BBC are doing a good job of this in their bulletins this evening, emphasising that the measures announced by the PM apply to England only, but I very much doubt the London based press will make any distinctions in their coverage tomorrow morning.

 

[Starmill]

I was expecting a detailed exit strategy

I'm not sure that you've really been paying attention to the competency of the government if that was really what you were expecting.

 

[nlogax]

I'm not sure that you've really been paying attention to the competency of the government if that was really what you were expecting.

Exactly. My only surprise about tonight's announcement is that some people are surprised by it.

 

[43066]

I think that's wishful thinking, this announcement is a godsend to those employers who don't give a damn about their employees safety, most of whom like me will be relying on public transport. I bet Mark Ashley and Tim Martin are rubbing their hands with glee tonight...

This is where the “stay safe” messaging has worked a little too well in my opinion.

If you’re not vulnerable or elderly the virus poses statistically very little risk to your personal safety, so there’s no reason to fear returning to work.

 

[Starmill]

It is clear that the Conservative party is not running this government.

Who is then? They were the ones elected to govern. It's 100% on them if someone else is calling the shots. You can't divert responsibility. The Prime Minister and his cabinet take the decisions. They and they alone are the ones responsible for them.

 

[yorksrob]

The virus has pushed us into a world which will be a lot less comfortable, and we aren't going to return to the patterns of life we'd all been used to.

I certainly hope we will at some stage.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Agreed, they can't keep public transport 'essential work travel only' forever, give it 2-3 months at a push and they'll need to let the masses out and think of some solution

But do bear in mind that keeping non-essential users off public transport is actually protecting those who don't have cars and have to use public transport. It's annoying but it is probably necessary at the moment.

 

[Starmill]

What was the point of delivering that speech at 7pm on a Sunday night?

In order to catch the Opposition off guard. The Leader of the Opposition will receive advance copy of a Prime Ministerial Statement in the House and will be recognised afterwards to reply. They will not benefit from this for a televised address. It would be too obvious an affront to the House to do it on Monday, so it had to be now.

 

[Starmill]

Those who are in favour of locking down for a very long time seem to be millennials and gen X's in nice relationships with families and houses with gardens. "We can sustain this for years, think about someone else you selfish hospitality worker who lives alone in a tiny flat!"

Millennials in nice houses with gardens? How out of touch are you?

 

[Starmill]

the future of this country dies away more literally as every day passes

tried to terrorise them inside their homes

the public were too blinded by fear

This is real hyperbole. It's also very unhelpful.

If we don't do anything until June or July there'll be little to no economy left

This isn't really true is it? There will have been a contraction of 30 - 35%, some of which will return and some of which won't. It's extremely shocking but it's not the end of the world if the government's recovery package is large enough. If people are still dying in corridors in hospitals however, it will be less likely that we'll make economic recovery. We've discussed this with you already.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Millennials in nice houses with gardens? How out of touch are you?

I know plenty of Millennials who live in nice houses with gardens. Not everyone is in London. Indeed you could argue that anyone with any sense isn't!

(Remember Millennials are now in their 30s - a millennial is someone who came of age, i.e. turned 18, around 2000ish, not someone born in 2000 who is a Gen-Z or post-millennial)

 

[3rd rail land]

Millennials in nice houses with gardens? How out of touch are you?

Exactly. I am millennial. I have a flat with a very small patio as my only private outdoor space.

 

[Starmill]

I know plenty of Millennials who live in nice houses with gardens. Not everyone is in London. Indeed you could argue that anyone with any sense isn't!

(Remember Millennials are now in their 30s - a millennial is someone who came of age, i.e. turned 18, around 2000ish, not someone born in 2000 who is a Gen-Z or post-millennial)

The post refers to Millennials wanting 'lockdown' because they as a group have comfortable homes, and they as a group aren't suffering from from the negative effects of it as much as other generations. This by definition suggests a majority and generally the choice of implies sort of 90% plus. Trust you to bring up minority counter-examples just so you can be contrary, despite my point being clear enough.

The idea that 'milennials' aren't suffering the negative effects of the lockdown as much as older generations is crazy. I also know exactly where Millennials fit, because I'm too young to be one.

 

[Skimpot flyer]

Very telling divergence between Johnson and Nicola Sturgeon who appeared on Scottish screens immediately afterwards with 'Stay Home' emblazoned on displays behind her in case those north of the border were in any doubt of the local plan. That lack of unified UK messaging will become more evident over time.

Nicola Sturgeon is very good at repeating the same line, delivering a clear and consistent statement of what she wants to do.
She’s not so good, however, at *listening* to the electorate, who voted convincingly to remain part of the UK