Boris Johnson Announcement Discussion - 10/05/20

[holl1984]

Was looking at pictures from one online celebrating VE Day on Friday, 7-8 kids all in a huddle with 4 members of staff all huddled in too posing for a camera.

My lad can’t go back anyway, his brother has mobility problems. He manages the walk one way once a day (spends most of his playtimes sat down reading and gets a lift in a morning so he can help tend to the reception class pets before school starts) but with him not being in, it’s going to be a case of there and back x2 which is just over 4 miles and he can’t manage that and it’s not fair to expect him to.

will be interesting to see what the further clarification will bring tomorrow

 

[Socanxdis]

clear as mud

 

[BluePenguin]

My honest opinion in all of this is that they need to forget about social distancing for the younger children. Older juniors and adults in the school setting yes, younger ones no. Nurseries aren’t socially distancing with the kids at the moment and nothing much is Happening because of it. My middle son is 5 and this is the longest him and his best friend have ever been apart in 4 years - in fact she said tonight the first thing she’s going to do when she sees him is hug him. I thought I’d be dancing from the rooftops at the thought of him going back (although his 8 year old brother isn’t just yet) but I’m not. I feel sick. My partner has been working throughout all of this (non keyworker role...online retail and as they’re open it was never an option or a thought for him to stay off). The country has got to get going, I need to see my mum. I’m a socially challenged person who spends a lot of time on my own (all my time in fact since my best friend passed away last year) but that’s my choice, it’s that Choice that’s been taken away. We need to strike a happy medium between normality and the virus.

Really sorry to hear about your friend, I can only begin to imagine how you feel. One of my closest friends committed suicide not long ago and I am still coming to terms with it. Hopefully you will have your choice back very soon.

Telling children not to interact with each other is very difficult, almost an alien concept. Due to their age, many young children don't have very stealthy immune systems. if I had any children of my own they certainly would be staying home.

 

[PTR 444]

I was referring to the subset of millenials who do have these things.

Of course, there are quite a lot of millennials that still live with their parents, many of which will have houses with nice gardens.

If we are to head into a Great Depression like the experts are suggesting, then it’s inevitable that today’s 20 year olds will probably have no choice but to carry on living with their parents until their 40s.

 

[3141]

I certainly hope we will at some stage.

I hope so too, but I very much doubt it.

There's been a lot of talk about the unexpected benefits of covid-19 in terms of less traffic, cleaner air, people benefitting from getting more sleep while staying at home (if they're not lying awake worrying), connecting with nature, not having to commute if you're working from home, and how desirable it would be not to return to the way things were previously. I don't think we'll have the luxury of being able to pick and choose the nice bits and avoid the rest.

But we each have a differing opinion and the outcome is still some way off. Perhaps we ought to return to this topic annually to see where we've reached!

This is where the “stay safe” messaging has worked a little too well in my opinion.

If you’re not vulnerable or elderly the virus poses statistically very little risk to your personal safety, so there’s no reason to fear returning to work.

I agree. I mentioned some time back that there is some evidence suggesting that the overall death rate is well below 0.5%. Much more widespread testing will be needed to discover how many people have developed antibodies in order to assess exactly what the death rate is. But whatever the overall figure, it is much lower for those under 60 or not particularly vulnerable. If we're going to have to live with this virus, for most people "living" will indeed be possible.

 

[Wilts Wanderer]

I’m still waiting to find out any risk information regarding those of us with asthma. There are currently approx 4.5 million asthmatics in the UK and it continues to be unclear whether this increases the risk or not. Initially we were counted in the potentially vulnerable category (under ‘acute long term respiratory conditions’) but this has become grey and diluted over time.

 

[37424]

Wheras those I'm familiar with who are living with their parents in their childhood homes are far more unhappy than if they'd lived alone. Especially where they're trying to work full time, often from their bedrooms. So you have a hunch, I have counter-examples and Bletchleyite has gone to the trouble of consulting Facebook(!). So where does that leave us? I'd suggest: nowhere useful.

For the record, I'd add that the reality is that across the generations and social strata there is broad support for the current restrictions. This is evidenced by the general majority of compliance with them, the absence of an organised big-time campaign against them, some polling evidence that is pretty clear that a month ago there was a significant majority of support for the current restrictions up until now. It was found on Thursday that most people felt that if it were still a necessity, they could cope with the current restrictions for a further three months.

There are, however, a small number of people who exceedingly angry about them on this forum, and no doubt those feature more generally as well and not just on this platform.

Indeed but I don't think many people have really got their heads around this as yet, the fact there is no quick fix for the virus and a return to normality and that some sections of the economy are going to be essentially wiped out. When people really get their heads around that I think the broad support for the restrictions is going to change especially at the younger end.

 

[GRALISTAIR]

I’m still waiting to find out any risk information regarding those of us with asthma. There are currently approx 4.5 million asthmatics in the UK and it continues to be unclear whether this increases the risk or not. Initially we were counted in the potentially vulnerable category (under ‘acute long term respiratory conditions’) but this has become grey and diluted over time.

Asthma is high risk end of

 

[Carlisle]

I can’t help but feel the public view of “we need to stay locked in until a vaccine”

That’s my fear too, that a sizeable proportion probably mainly of the older generation might choose simply not to buy into the forthcoming app etc, preferring the idea of just staying locked down until a vaccine, when or if it arrives

 

[yorkie]

My honest opinion in all of this is that they need to forget about social distancing for the younger children. Older juniors and adults in the school setting yes, younger ones no. Nurseries aren’t socially distancing with the kids at the moment and nothing much is Happening because of it. My middle son is 5 and this is the longest him and his best friend have ever been apart in 4 years - in fact she said tonight the first thing she’s going to do when she sees him is hug him. I thought I’d be dancing from the rooftops at the thought of him going back (although his 8 year old brother isn’t just yet) but I’m not. I feel sick. My partner has been working throughout all of this (non keyworker role...online retail and as they’re open it was never an option or a thought for him to stay off). The country has got to get going, I need to see my mum. I’m a socially challenged person who spends a lot of time on my own (all my time in fact since my best friend passed away last year) but that’s my choice, it’s that Choice that’s been taken away. We need to strike a happy medium between normality and the virus.

There is no real need for under 10s to socially distance anyway as they are not going to be transmitting the virus and the risks for them are absolutely miniscule.

 

[Starmill]

That’s my fear too, that a sizeable proportion probably mainly of the older generation might choose simply not to buy into the forthcoming app etc, preferring the idea of just staying locked down until a vaccine, when or if it arrives

It was pointed out in the last thread where this came up that this isn't really a big talking point right now. Apart from the usual handful of random twitter trolls (who may or may not really believe their crazy comments, or even be real people) there aren't really any voices for this sort of lockdown are there?

There's nobody from the government suggesting it, there's nobody from think-tanks or Tory party funders suggesting it and nobody from the Opposition suggesting it. I've managed to find no evidence of any legislators suggesting it. Indeed, I'd literally never heard it until several people on the the forum started to bring it up.

I think that the idea that there's a commonly held view or legitimate argument that there should be an indefinite enforced lockdown has just been made up by a handful of people who don't like the restrictions, and who need an excuse to complain about them.

 

[Bayum]

Problem is that those who favour locking down for a very long time are very vocal and active so I don't think they really had much choice.

As discussed in other threads, they're not going to be passing the virus on anyway.

I and our LEA are still very much under the impression that this is incorrect. Until there is solid data, reviewed by others, then it will continue be assessed as children are asymptomatic carriers.

 

[GRALISTAIR]

Asthma is high risk end of

I confess bias. My wife has had asthma since the age of 3. She has had 2 stints in intensive care. Scary. Needless to say she is on strict lockdown. Missing the kids and grand kids of course.

 

[yorkie]

I and our LEA are still very much under the impression that this is incorrect. Until there is solid data, reviewed by others, then it will continue be assessed as children are asymptomatic carriers.

Have there been any known cases of a child under 10 passing the virus onto anyone else?

Countries such as Switzerland and Denmark are taking a more sensible, rational approach than we are in the UK

 

[Bayum]

Have there been any known cases of a child under 10 passing the virus onto anyone else?

Incorrect media reporting about children and transmission of COVID-19

A statement about media reports, citing RCPCH, on the transmission of COVID-19 by children.

www.rcpch.ac.uk

 

[bramling]

That’s my fear too, that a sizeable proportion probably mainly of the older generation might choose simply not to buy into the forthcoming app etc, preferring the idea of just staying locked down until a vaccine, when or if it arrives

With today’s seemingly inadvertent reversion to many aspects of normal life, what’s not to like about being in lockdown for many?

 

[RealTrains07]

If anything has become clear from Johnsons speech is that we need clarity more than anything.

Especially on what is still allowed or not allowed once the restrictions on exercise lift on wednesday.

Anyone have any similar view on Johnsons speech?

 

[Starmill]

There is no real need for under 10s to socially distance anyway as they are not going to be transmitting the virus

It would be wonderfully convenient for you for this to be true, wouldn't it? Indeed, I think every single one of us could wish for it to be true. Unfortunately wishing and presenting uncertain conclusions as hard facts doesn't make them so.

 

[Jozhua]

Of course, there are quite a lot of millennials that still live with their parents, many of which will have houses with nice gardens.

If we are to head into a Great Depression like the experts are suggesting, then it’s inevitable that today’s 20 year olds will probably have no choice but to carry on living with their parents until their 40s.

That's me and also I'm not really in a position to be able to do that... I'm not on bad terms with them, but living isn't a possibility.

I'll start another thread on it, but addressing the housing crisis is going to be a major issue, otherwise the limited capital left will be tied up in people trying to keep their heads above water in regards to housing.

 

[GB]

There is no real need for under 10s to socially distance anyway as they are not going to be transmitting the virus and the risks for them are absolutely miniscule.

I think you really need to stop dressing your opinion as absolute fact.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Scotland does appear to be a couple of weeks behind England in terms of the progress of the epidemic. Therefore from that perspective both Nicola Sturgeon and Boris Johnson could be correct, in that it is appropriate for England to relax the lockdown measures, but not yet in Scotland.

This:

Coronavirus (COVID-19) cases in the UK

is quite interesting as it shows the graph of new infections in England only, and it shows a rather different picture to the overall UK graph which has been used on the press conferences. It's by date of sample so the last 4 bars must be ignored as they are not yet complete, but it shows England as dropping off much more sharply than the overall UK figure.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

But not Eurostar or ferry?

Yes, quarantine will apply to all modes (clarified overnight).
But they've also just announced it won't apply to France (by reciprocal agreement).
So the rules will not apply to Eurostar or channel ferry from France.
I wonder what happens to Eurostar passengers from Amsterdam/Brussels (passing through Lille)?

The lack of a plan for domestic public transport was depressing.
There must be no agreement with the unions/TOCs on either increasing services or social distancing.
An instruction to drive, walk or cycle relegates pubic transport to irrelevance.

Cross border issues are legion.
Wales has retained the "keep out" sign, I think largely because of the high number of virus cases in south east Wales.
My two nearest garden centres are (just) in England, but I'm not allowed to drive to them (must be local within Wales)!

 

[yorksrob]

Yes, it applies to all modes.
But they've just announced it won't apply to France (by reciprocal agreement).
So the rules will not apply to Eurostar or channel ferry from France.
I wonder what happens to Eurostar passengers from Amsterdam/Brussels (passing through Lille)?

The lack of a plan for domestic public transport was depressing.
There must be no agreement with the unions/TOCs on either increasing services or social distancing.
An instruction to drive, walk or cycle relegates pubic transport to irrelevance.

Cross border issues are legion.
Wales has retained the "keep out" sign, I think largely because of the high number of virus cases in south east Wales.
My two nearest garden centres are (just) in England, but I'm not allowed to drive to them (must be local within Wales)!

It is a laughable situation. My neighbour can supposedly drive to inverness, but I cannot visit my friend in Leeds. This needs to be addressed.

 

[thejuggler]

I'm afraid the confusion is now embedded with Government. The briefings are all over the place.

You can't have Dominic Raab going on air advising everyone that it is perfectly acceptable to go and visit both parents as long as you stay 2m away, then an hour later Government stating he is wrong.

 

[Ianno87]

Yes, it applies to all modes.
But they've just announced it won't apply to France (by reciprocal agreement).
So the rules will not apply to Eurostar or channel ferry from France.
I wonder what happens to Eurostar passengers from Amsterdam/Brussels (passing through Lille)?

I would not expect Amsterdam services to restart for some time (Brussels, I take your point)

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

It is a laughable situation. My neighbour can supposedly drive to inverness, but I cannot visit my friend in Leeds. This needs to be addressed.

With regards to what you say above about driving to Inverness from your area of England, Nicola Sturgeon made reference to such an England to Scotland journey on the BBC this morning reminding the questioner that the Laws of Scotland apply in that area and the Scottish Government ruling on non-essential journeys has not changed and that in Scotland, the "stay at home" message also has not changed.

 

[Darandio]

There is no real need for under 10s to socially distance anyway as they are not going to be transmitting the virus and the risks for them are absolutely miniscule.

With respect Yorkie, if a 'normal' member had offered their opinion as fact repeatedly in multiple threads you would have told them to stop. This is not confirmed yet and is still disputed within the scientific community.

 

[theblackwatch]

It seems at least one of the teaching unions is unhappy at the proposals regarding the re-opening of schools on June 1st:

Press releases | National Education Union

Our latest press releases.

neu.org.uk

Prime Minister’s announcement on return of schools is nothing short of reckless

Commenting on the Prime Minister’s announcement on changes to lockdown, Dr Mary Bousted, Joint General Secretary of the National Education Union, said:
“We think that the announcement by the Government that schools may reopen from June 1 with reception and years 1 and 6 is nothing short of reckless.
Coronavirus continues to ravage communities in the UK and the rate of Covid-19 infection is still far too great for the wider opening of our schools.

 

[yorkie]

It seems teaching unions are unhappy at the proposals regarding the re-opening of schools on June 1st:

Press releases | National Education Union

Our latest press releases.

neu.org.uk

They're not representative of teachers I know. They don't appear to be putting kids first and looking at the bigger picture.

Also see:

I wouldn’t worry in the slightest about the teaching unions, they are absolutely toothless.

As for @holl1984s excellent post regarding social distancing for younger children, which I strongly agree with, I see above several people are very keen to disagree, so I have created a new thread to discuss this further: https://www.railforums.co.uk/thread...dren-be-required-to-socially-distance.204249/

 

[Bletchleyite]

It seems at least one of the teaching unions is unhappy at the proposals regarding the re-opening of schools on June 1st:

Press releases | National Education Union

Our latest press releases.

neu.org.uk

Well, there's one way they can be sure of that - ballot for industrial action. Then they will know if they are supported or not.

Are they perhaps a little scared of doing that in case it doesn't go in their favour?