Boris unveils the first roadworthy Borismaster

[Via Bank]

Why not wire the main corridors, such as those used by the main routes from Central London, and have bi-mode, so that they could use the wires on the main sections of route but can use hdyrogen or hybrid or whatever, on diversions & extensions off the main routes?

Because, for the same reason the bi-mode IEP is a bad idea, you'd have a bus hauling dead weight in the form of its engines/batteries/fuel tanks around for a large amount of the route, along with increasing complexity and maintenance costs tremendously. Except, in the case of a bi-mode bus it'd be even worse, because you'd be starting up the engine and stopping it again within a few minutes (or even seconds). Lots of wastage there.

 

[radamfi]

On many London routes the theory is that you have a high enough frequency that planning for connections doesn't really need to be done except particularly early or late.

The changes I refer to above are physical changes rather than timing changes - these are more frequent but people don't always notice them!

Yes, where buses are frequent they you always have a connection whatever the timetable. However it is still standard practice in CH and NL for buses to change once a year even on frequent city services.

 

[Schnellzug]

Because, for the same reason the bi-mode IEP is a bad idea, you'd have a bus hauling dead weight in the form of its engines/batteries/fuel tanks around for a large amount of the route, along with increasing complexity and maintenance costs tremendously. Except, in the case of a bi-mode bus it'd be even worse, because you'd be starting up the engine and stopping it again within a few minutes (or even seconds). Lots of wastage there.

That's no different for Hybrids, though, is it? And you mightn't need an engine at all, you could use batteries which could be charged off the catenary for the bits away from the wires. Much, I think, as Trolleybuses did in fact have, for manouvering on depots and so on, only with even the state of modern day battery technology, this should be feasible for relatively short distances on the road.

 

[Zoe]

In NL, CH and other European countries, bus changes are usually restricted to once a year, the same date in December when the rail timetables change. This is logical as if you change train times then you need to change the corresponding connecting bus times.

They do major rail timetables changes in May in Britain also even though the idea of the EU directive was for there to only be a single principal change each year December. I have also arrived at quite a few stations by train on time only to see the bus pull away just as the train doors open so the bus companies (with some exceptions) don't seem to take into account train times.

 

[jon0844]

That happens to me all the time. Bus drivers often left early, even when they saw people coming over the bridge at the station, as they'd rather not have to worry about taking money and checking tickets - just leave a minute or two early and you're back at the depot quicker*!

They now have the new Wayfarer ticketing equipment and GPS that now tells them when to leave, and even to wait if they're running early. The drivers seem to hate it, but it has seen them waiting until they're meant to go in most cases now - which is a bonus for the passengers who wanted to use the bus, but couldn't as it has it left without them!

* This is a real problem at Hatfield as many services will terminate at the business park, where the depot is, so some drivers are quite happy to leave people behind to clock off early. I am amazed the bus company doesn't demand to know why they've arrived early, but fingers crossed the new equipment will log all of this and discourage it from happening in the future.

 

[Rational Plan]

That's no different for Hybrids, though, is it? And you mightn't need an engine at all, you could use batteries which could be charged off the catenary for the bits away from the wires. Much, I think, as Trolleybuses did in fact have, for manouvering on depots and so on, only with even the state of modern day battery technology, this should be feasible for relatively short distances on the road.

Surely hybrid buses could run off like a trolleybus on a main road. If you were really serious about reducing particulates in London all the main roads within the North and South circular could be wired up.

 

[tbtc]

The theory is that TfL are fairly reactive to changes in demand and travelling patterns, compared with some areas where the bus services stay the same for decades even though people want to get to different places. It's not actually a huge number - it suggests on average a route will see a change every 5 years.

Most routes in central London have stayed the same for a long time - I reckon I could find my way round Zone One with a ten year old bus map.

Times are another story, though generally they've stayed pretty frequent (albeit maybe changed from every seven minutes to every six minutes or whatever)

 

[Deerfold]

Most routes in central London have stayed the same for a long time - I reckon I could find my way round Zone One with a ten year old bus map.

Times are another story, though generally they've stayed pretty frequent (albeit maybe changed from every seven minutes to every six minutes or whatever)

The *general* routes have. You'd be surprised how many minor changes there are (sometimes just to where the buses stand after the last stop) - not a problem for most people but there are if you want it all wired up.

Sounds like what some people want is bus dodgems

 

[jon0844]

That's buses along Oxford Street already. It's mental how many buses go along there, and it's actually quite hard to get one - given they have their own stops (quite far apart too) and bunch up so it's often hard to see what buses are coming.

Then you have to contend with your bus (that you can barely see) stopping 3-4 buses back, setting people down and then overtaking the buses and shooting off.

 

[HSTEd]

Dual mode busses dont suffer so badly as bi mode IEPs do, chiefly because you will still end up with a simplification of the drivetrain compared to a hybrid or other bus as you will likely have a full diesel electric transmission in non electric mode.

Wheelhub motors, control equipment, trolley pole equipment and a genset isnt much more complicated than a "conventional" hybrid bus, even if you were to make a "hybrid bi-mode" bus, additionally the genset could be placed wherever is convenient, for instance beneath the stairs on a decker.

 

[BestWestern]

That happens to me all the time. Bus drivers often left early, even when they saw people coming over the bridge at the station, as they'd rather not have to worry about taking money and checking tickets - just leave a minute or two early and you're back at the depot quicker*!

* This is a real problem at Hatfield as many services will terminate at the business park, where the depot is, so some drivers are quite happy to leave people behind to clock off early. I am amazed the bus company doesn't demand to know why they've arrived early, but fingers crossed the new equipment will log all of this and discourage it from happening in the future.

Most competent operators will take widespread early running VERY seriously, as it can land them in some very hot water with the Commissioners. Many a firm has received fines on the back of a monitoring period showing lots of buses leaving early, as they are treated as having not run.

 

[DarkestDreams]

This is a bit off topic, no?

I actually went to look at the mock up recently and I must admit, I loved it. I think it's a good idea but only on some routes - other routes clearly needed the arctics.

 

[stationpilot]

Please say they are actually being called "Borismasters" !

 

[Schnellzug]

Actually, I don't know what they are supposed to be going to be called. They just seem to call them "New Bus For London" do far. Maybe that's what they'll be numbered, NBFL1 and so on.

 

[Via Bank]

Brutemaster.

 

[jon0844]

Boris bikes
Boris bridge
Boris cablecar
Boris odd-red-thing-that's-supposed-to-be-art-for-the-Olympics

So Borismaster seems to make sense.

First bus to have the plate BOR1S ?

 

[martinsh]

First bus to have the plate BOR1S ?

If Brois knows what's good for him, he won't be seen dead with First Bus !

 

[bb21]

If Brois knows what's good for him, he won't be seen dead with First Bus !

It won't be unless Arriva London North agrees to let the route go.

In actual fact First aren't doing too badly at the moment. Lea Interchange depot of First Capital North won London Bus Garage of the Year at this year's UK Bus Awards.

 

[HSTEd]

How about the Bonkersmaster?

 

[Lampshade]

Am I the only one who really likes the Borismaster? Fair play to Boris for embracing something different.

 

[HSTEd]

Am I the only one who really likes the Borismaster? Fair play to Boris for embracing something different.

I like the look, I just think that development of London Trolleybusses is a preferable alternative to spamming hybrid busses all over the place.

 

[jopsuk]

Am I the only one who really likes the Borismaster? Fair play to Boris for embracing something different.

There's trying something different, and then thee's spending £millions of public money on something different during a downturn when something off the shelf would merely cost £thousands and be funded by private investment.

 

[tbtc]

There's trying something different, and then there's spending £millions of public money on something different during a downturn when something off the shelf would merely cost £thousands and be funded by private investment

If I could "favourite" posts (like Tweets) then I would. Spot on.

 

[Cliveblackpool]

Green? With the stench of diesel fumes in the city centre, isn't it time they considered trolley buses. If fitted with a bank of batteries they would not
just be tied to routes with overhead wires.

 

[Schnellzug]

Do buses still make a Stench, any more than diesel cars, taxis & Vans, or is that slightly rhetorical, i wonder? Anyway, if Governments of the world were to stop being loyal servants of the Oil industry and take seriously alternative forms of fuel you can use in regular diesel engines, of which there's loads of different kinds you can use, they'd soon be able to get round the matter of CO2 emissions.

 

[jon0844]

If they can introduce hybrid buses in the USA, then there's hope for us all! Sure, the Wrightbus bendy buses still had a normal engine at the back but until we can charge electric vehicles much quicker - and that will happen - that's a necessity unless you want the buses out of service for hours/days.

As for stopping Governments from being servants to the oil companies; most of the oil companies are already investing in greener energy solutions so that will simply never happen! The oil companies won't go out of business when oil runs out (or gets incredibly expensive to obtain) unless they're very stupid.

 

[Blindtraveler]

would make me laugh if nobody actually orders any or better stil if they prove unreliable and problematic in service. Agree with earlier comments though, an off the shelf E400 or for longer runs E500 would do!

 

[Deerfold]

would make me laugh if nobody actually orders any or better stil if they prove unreliable and problematic in service. Agree with earlier comments though, an off the shelf E400 or for longer runs E500 would do!

Unfortunately London Buses can specify bus features in the tender documents...

Although it did get rid of the one bus operator it owned so it's theoretically possible that noone would bid.

Alternatively (and more likely) they all bid really high...so we pay even more to force people to use the BM.

And problems are unlikely to be clear for a while as they'll be introduced *just* before the Mayoral election.

 

[Blindtraveler]

which, if won by team borris may or may not see the end of him politically if the whole thing should fall on its ass when these things are out in traffic.

I stil think a 2nd version likely to sell to other cities would be a good idea and maybe put some money back into the pot?

 

[Deerfold]

I stil think a 2nd version likely to sell to other cities would be a good idea and maybe put some money back into the pot?

There seems to be a distinct lack of interest from other cities...