Borismaster Routes near Kings Cross

Discussion in 'Buses & Coaches' started by Crossover, 27 May 2015.

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  1. Crossover

    Crossover Established Member

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    Could anyone advise which routes that go round the Kings Cross station area are run by Borismasters? I will have ~90 mins to kill in London tomorrow and, having never used a Borismaster, see it would be a good opportunity (using Oyster) given it is a weekday and they will have conductors.

    Ideally I would be looking to go 20-30 mins with a short break before coming back again, dependant on my arriving rail service being on time (arrival booked 1007, departure booked 1200, though I have a few other things I need to sort out before heading out)

    TIA :)
     
  2. telstarbox

    telstarbox Established Member

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    The 73 and 390 go past Kings Cross.
     
  3. Arctic Troll

    Arctic Troll Established Member

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    The 10 and 390 are full Borismaster, and the 73 is in the process of being converted (and doesn't have a "conductor").
     
  4. westcoaster

    westcoaster Established Member

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    There are normally loads of them parked up on stands along York way, Road runs along side the station. The number 10 starts and finishes there.
    Dropped Pin
    near 34B York Way, Kings Cross, London N1 9AB
    http://goo.gl/maps/K8x4W
     
    Last edited: 27 May 2015
  5. Busaholic

    Busaholic Established Member

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    A quick trip on the 73 eastbound up to Islington will bring you to the most frequent London bus route, the 38, which is also operated with FuturePM(hehopes)masters, with conductors on this section - yes, TfL in their infinite wisdom jettison the 'conductors' as the buses enter the Hackney badlands. Alternatively, a quick trip westbound to Gower Street on the 10,73 or 390 will also bring you into contact with London's first fully-operated Borismaster route, the 24, and you can marvel at the fact it has run between the same two termini for over a century!
     
  6. transmanche

    transmanche Established Member

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    The 24 has racked up a few 'notabilities' in its time. It was also the first LT central London route to be operated by non-red buses[*] (when Grey-Green won the contract back in 1988), and it was the first London route to be operated by front-entrance double-decker buses (the XA class Atlanteans, back in 1965).

    [*] Obviously excepting special liveries and advertising liveries.
     
  7. Mutant Lemming

    Mutant Lemming Established Member

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    Although it may be apt in some respects to call them after a personal vanity project, as someone paying the additional costs incurred via increased taxes I reserve the right to call them New Bus for London or in fact anything else rather than the crude name that pays homage to some over bloated ambitious tory fart.
     
  8. jon0844

    jon0844 Veteran Member

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    The buses are just fine. I'm sure the teething problems have been resolved and it's quite nice to travel on buses with air conditioning - even on a fairly mild day.

    Economy of scale must mean these buses are getting cheaper all the time.
     
  9. Deerfold

    Deerfold Established Member

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    You jest surely?
     
  10. Crossover

    Crossover Established Member

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    I took a short journey on a 10 from Kings Cross to Tottenham Court (no conductor sadly) before bailing due to traffic. I came back via Underground.

    First impressions - seat was quite solid (though not too bad for me), it seemed a bit dingy and I can see why some could be leaky. I will have to give one another go when I have a little more time in London
     
  11. jon0844

    jon0844 Veteran Member

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    No. I do like them.

    Sure, I'm not sure we needed them (and any other off the shelf bus could have been ordered with air conditioning) but they're okay.

    I also think they'll become quite iconic like a black cab and be very popular with tourists if they're not already.
     
  12. Deerfold

    Deerfold Established Member

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    I meant about them getting cheaper.
     
  13. Crossover

    Crossover Established Member

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    The post after mine reminded me of the other 'problem' - the air con noise is worse than being on a Desiro....I was hoping for a neutral section!
     
  14. jon0844

    jon0844 Veteran Member

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    Well, surely they will? Or has TfL agreed to pay the same amount for them forever more? If it has then more fool them.

    I would also imagine that over time they've had a few revisions here and there, so - again - I'd hope the price tag changes.
     
  15. Robertj21a

    Robertj21a Established Member

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    It's not air conditioning, just a small chiller unit. It can end up with some uncomfortable travelling conditions, particularly downstairs.
     
  16. Busaholic

    Busaholic Established Member

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    First impressions are very important - I don't believe you'd change them much the second or third time either. Bus seats now, in London or elsewhere, are much more solid than previously, although one or two operators have realised this doesn't encourage the non-committed and are introducing something more comfortable. Regrettably, weight of bus seats has become a big issue.
    I certainly find the upstairs claustrophobic, particularly when fully occupied. Not sure where they are all going to go after London - Barnsley more likely than Malta, I feel.:)
     
  17. moogal

    moogal Member

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    And not a particularly good one either.

    Ironically the standard TfL spec Enviros/Geminis seem to have much better air cooling units on the upper deck, which would be fine if every summer people didn't then open all the windows and let the cool air out and the hot air in, rendering them pointless!
     
  18. jon0844

    jon0844 Veteran Member

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    Windows should not be openable or no air cooling system can cope. Have them openable only by a driver.
     
  19. Mikey C

    Mikey C Established Member

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    Normal double deckers don't have full air conditioning, but an air chilling system, I recall reading somewhere that they need an open window to make the air flow work.
     
  20. jon0844

    jon0844 Veteran Member

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    Hmm. I'm rather sceptical about that.
     
  21. hassaanhc

    hassaanhc Established Member

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    The same thing about first impressions happened among enthusiasts about the London spec Scania OmniCity. The first ones that were 56 reg and the new Euro 4 engine ones from 08 reg had very minimal seat padding, I believe due to concerns about the overall weight (indeed London United's SP16-37 are a hefty 12,520 kg). This continued on the large number ordered during the 58 reg and 09 reg periods, even if the weight decreased very slightly. However, those from 59 reg onwards were given more seat padding. But the initial reputation has stuck and many think all of them have rock hard seats. London United have added loads of padding when they've refurbished theirs, but Stagecoach only added a little bit. The suspension is also hated for being harsh over bumps, which I'll say is a bit true. Still, I really like them, especially their enormous windows, but I will say that if my route had anything better than the horrible early centre staircase Volvo ALX400 and President vehicles which made up majority of the allocation until 2012, then my opinion about the Scania OmniCity may well be different today.

    Back on topic to this Borismaster thingy (:P), I am not a fan of the tiny windows either, which certainly as you say makes it feel claustrophobic. Something also continued to the Gemini 3 models by Wrightbus, which is a shame as I liked the huge windows that had remained since the first Gemini in 2001 :(.


    The Scania OmniCity buses can sometimes have ice cold air cooling units, like the Geminis. I had one on the 262 last month and while I sat right in front of the unit, someone later opened a window in front and I could really feel the warm outside air rushing in when the bus was moving. In the winter the same unit on the OmniCity can pump out hot air which makes the interior very warm. The Geminis are also good. Open windows in those cases always annoys me, operators really should add stickers next to the windows about the air cooling (ok some won't change their behaviour but a decrease of open windows is a good thing). The E400 one doesn't seem very good though.
    --- old post above --- --- new post below ---
    Me too, see above post regarding an experience last month.
     
  22. Antman

    Antman Established Member

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    I thought the whole point of the smaller windows on the LT was to reduce the greenhouse effect?
     
  23. jon0844

    jon0844 Veteran Member

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    That would make sense, as well as using solar reflecting film on the glass (although that can mess up phone signals).
     
  24. MCR247

    MCR247 Established Member

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    The main reason for the curent trend is to save weight and so fuel costs
     
  25. Busaholic

    Busaholic Established Member

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    Not being technically minded, I can understand that in relation to diesel engines but how does it impact hybrids?
     
  26. MCR247

    MCR247 Established Member

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    The Borismaster is ridiculously heavy as it is. Larger windows would need it be tri-axle to cope with the weight.

    With hybrids generally, I guess it's just to reduce weight and consistent designs.
     
  27. ainsworth74

    ainsworth74 Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    Forget larger windows, opening windows would be fine!
     
  28. Busaholic

    Busaholic Established Member

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    Well, it had to happen I suppose, but on 12th December inst, almost a decade to the day that RMs disappeared from the route and out of the ordinary lives of Londoners, the 159 is to be converted to the Borismaster. Adding insult to injury, the route is being snatched from Arriva's Brixton garage and awarded to Abellio, whether to operate from Croydon or Battersea remains to be seen. The 159 had previously been due to receive these buses under the current regime, with use of conductors, until policy change at the top saw them introduced on the 137 instead, without conductors, even though Arriva London South had already started advertising the posts! Now I wonder who paid for that superfluous expenditure?!
     
  29. moogal

    moogal Member

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    They don't seem to - I've had it lovely and cold on journeys where the windows have been closed - when they're open they lose their effect.
     
  30. jon0844

    jon0844 Veteran Member

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    Not much good on a bus not moving in traffic and slowly heating up, further helped by the passengers on board.
     
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