Boundary Zone 6 to Gatwick

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noddy1878

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I thought I knew the answer to this but southern have refused to sell me a ticket that I've asked for. Can you use a Boundary Zone 6 to Gatwick on the Gatwick Express?

If I'm right I will take it further but if I'm wrong I'll hold my hands up and do as they say. I do have a z1-6 travel card.
 
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noddy1878

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Thank you. I thought I was right. They wouldn't listen to me and claimed I would get a penalty fare. Thanks once again.
 

bb21

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Penalty Fare? I have never had any problem at the gateline (Victoria one) itself, as long as the Travelcard is shown alongside.
 

talldave

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I've done it dozens of times. Ticket office staff will often try to sell you an East Croydon to Gatwick ticket to extend a Travelcard and don't appear to understand the Gatwick Express validity issue. Stick to your guns and insist on the BZ6.

Better still, use a TVM - they don't argue!
 

sonic2009

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Will see how i get on in around an hour, i have a Travelcard and BZ6 - Eastbourne ticket, perfectly valid.
 

noddy1878

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Thanks guys. Made me feel better in at least I was right. Will now take it up further with Southern. Maybe a while before the final outcome but will update this thread with what they say in goodness knows how many days.
 

talldave

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If this is your first experience with Southern/GTR customer services, then be prepared for a battle to be understood and accept that, ultimately, your issue will be ignored.
 

coxy

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I've done it dozens of times. Ticket office staff will often try to sell you an East Croydon to Gatwick ticket to extend a Travelcard and don't appear to understand the Gatwick Express validity issue. Stick to your guns and insist on the BZ6.

Better still, use a TVM - they don't argue!


Which station TVM would you need to use to buy such a ticket ? Would it have to be at Victoria ?
 

bb21

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Southern machines at Victoria will be able to sell you tickets from a different origin station, including Boundary Zone "stations".
 

A1

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Southern machines at Victoria will be able to sell you tickets from a different origin station, including Boundary Zone "stations".

Indeed, pity they are so slow and cumbersome. Tfl Rail machines will also sell z6 tickets, can't think of any others.
 

yorkie

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I thought I knew the answer to this but southern have refused to sell me a ticket that I've asked for. Can you use a Boundary Zone 6 to Gatwick on the Gatwick Express?

If I'm right I will take it further but if I'm wrong I'll hold my hands up and do as they say. I do have a z1-6 travel card.
Of course!

There is no requirement for the train to call anywhere, so Govia Thameslink Railway's Gatwick Express trains can indeed be used.

The combination is valid under NRCoC Condition 19(a).

(If your Travelcard is a Season it's additionally valid under Condition 19(c))

A lot of people seem to know about Condition 19(b) but not so many know about 19(a) or 19(c). I believe this is because hardly anyone reads the Conditions ;) And yes that includes some people whose job it is to understand them!

Our fares guide mentions this, it's under Split ticketing
 

hairyhandedfool

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....The combination is valid under NRCoC Condition 19(a).....

It's nothing to do with Condition 19(a). Despite having "Boundary zone 6" on the ticket, it's not zonal. The ticket is an extension of the travelcard, they are, in effect, one ticket.
 

yorkie

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Well, either way, it's absolutely valid and yes the whole point of a Boundary Zone ticket is to avoid any need to call at any station, so it's absolutely absurd that anyone would try to suggest otherwise.

However, given past experiences with certain GTR staff at Victoria (especially the infamous gateline staff at platforms 13/14 ), I am not at all surprised in the slightest. On the contrary; I'd be much more surprised if they were knowledgeable and acted correctly, things are that bad at that rotten company.
 

A1

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BTW, why isn't an East Croydon - Gatwick ticket good? More range selection, plus same price from memory for the shared tickets.
 

yorkie

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BTW, why isn't an East Croydon - Gatwick ticket good? More range selection, plus same price from memory for the shared tickets.
It's fine if the Travelcard held is a Season.

If it isn't a Season, then technically the train would need to call at East Croydon.

Also see Gatwick Express & Oyster Travelcards (though in that case it was a Zone 1-4 Travelcard Season held; the OP in this thread holds a Travelcard for Zones 1-6 but it is not known if it's a Day Travelcard or a Season).http://www.railforums.co.uk/showthread.php?t=127863
 

furlong

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It's nothing to do with Condition 19(a). Despite having "Boundary zone 6" on the ticket, it's not zonal. The ticket is an extension of the travelcard, they are, in effect, one ticket.

I agree pretty much - I view a BZ ticket as a supplement valid only if presented alongside an existing travelcard, the validity of which it extends. However, the problem we've got is that nobody seems to have written this down publicly! And now that ticket machines used by the public are issuing these, where does it say that you cannot use a Boundary Zone ticket in isolation to travel to a station on the boundary?
 
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bb21

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Good question, although what National Rail station is exactly on the boundary of Zone 6? Moor Park is one definitely on the boundary that I can think of, although it is LU.
 

MikeWh

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Good question, although what National Rail station is exactly on the boundary of Zone 6? Moor Park is one definitely on the boundary that I can think of, although it is LU.

Moor Park is the only station on the boundary of zone 6/7. Largely because on most lines it would be the boundary of zone 6/- which doesn't make a lot of sense.
 

furlong

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Good question, although what National Rail station is exactly on the boundary of Zone 6? Moor Park is one definitely on the boundary that I can think of, although it is LU.

Oh - I didn't explain - in National Rail terms, the only workable definition I've been able to come up with consistent with the documentation is for "BOUNDARY ZONE N" to represent the list of stations immediately inside the boundary in the same way that "MANCHESTER STNS" is a list of stations.
 

bb21

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Moor Park is the only station on the boundary of zone 6/7. Largely because on most lines it would be the boundary of zone 6/- which doesn't make a lot of sense.

Oh - I didn't explain - in National Rail terms, the only workable definition I've been able to come up with consistent with the documentation is for "BOUNDARY ZONE N" to represent the list of stations immediately inside the boundary in the same way that "MANCHESTER STNS" is a list of stations.

Perhaps we need this to be properly defined going forward. ;)
 

puffing billy

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On a related topic. Can someone please confirm, or otherwise, that the combination of a London Councils Freedom Pass and a "Z6B to Brighton" ticket is valid on the Gatwick Express services from Victoria to Brighton on a Saturday? I'd normally get a Southern service from CLJ to BTN but the warnings on the National Rail Journey Planner site about possible disruption on this route would suggest that the Gatwick Express service from VIC may be more reliable. Thank-you.
 

sonic2009

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A freedom pass isn't accepted on the Gatwick Depress. Sorry mean Express. ;)
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
You could always get a Thameslink service from London Bridge or East Croydon.
 

noddy1878

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Well I eventually got a reply from GTR about this. They apologised and said I was right and training will be redone in the East Croydon office. I don't believe it for one minute but I should be getting compensation in the form of travel vouchers. Just got to wait for them to arrive.
 

sarahj

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Good question, although what National Rail station is exactly on the boundary of Zone 6? Moor Park is one definitely on the boundary that I can think of, although it is LU.

Coulsdon South is the boundary station on that route, tho' the actual boundary seems to be the M25. Merstham Station is just after and is out of boundry, tho' of course you can use an oyster there.
 

yorkie

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On a related topic. Can someone please confirm, or otherwise, that the combination of a London Councils Freedom Pass and a "Z6B to Brighton" ticket is valid on the Gatwick Express services from Victoria to Brighton on a Saturday? I'd normally get a Southern service from CLJ to BTN but the warnings on the National Rail Journey Planner site about possible disruption on this route would suggest that the Gatwick Express service from VIC may be more reliable. Thank-you.
I think it's valid (no chance of an on-train ticket check, but the infamous barrier staff at Victoria Platforms 13/14 will not like it!)
 
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