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Bournemouth Depot to close, 442s withdrawn

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ChrisCooper

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I can't believe they are getting rid of the 442s already, they are not even 20 years old yet. I know the motors on them are a bit older, but they should still have quite a bit of life in them, afterall the motors on the 455s and 456s are older (they were salvaged from SUBs and HAPs, so will date back to the 50s at the latest), and you don't hear talk of them going any time soon. I've only done one trip on one so far, from London to Portsmouth a few years ago (although that was nothing compared to the BEP back), so need to get some milage in. The fact that it sounds like 450s will replace 444s on the Portsmouth line to allow the 444s to replace 442s is annoying aswell, since it's a drop in quality (3+2 rarther than 2+2 seating for a start).
 
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Tom

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444s are 2+2 I thought... at least 444034 was when I was on it on Saturday! ;)
 

ChrisCooper

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That's what I'm getting at, the 444s which are currently common on the fast Portsmouth Harbour services are 2+2 seated, wheras the 450s which it sounds like they are going to be replaced with on that service are 3+2 seated. As far as the 444s replacing 442s, it's the same, better or worse, depending on your point of view, but few can argue that replacing 444s with 450s is anything but a reduction in quality. It will also be interesting to see what happens in terms of train length, are the 450s mostly going to be run a 4 coaches, which although giving slightly more seats, is at the expence of packing the in a lot tighter, aswell as reductions in onboard facilities (no buffet) and luggage space (Portsmouth, with it's connections the the Isle of Wight and the continent must get a lot of holiday traffic). On the other hand, running as 8 coaches is likely to be overkill most of the time, and also depends on enough 450s being freed up. Then of cource, is the issue of busy times, when 444s run as 10 coach sets, will the 450s be run as 12 coaches, although again an 8 coach 450 will provide more seating than a 10 coach 444.
 

66526

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442s are great units. I prefer to travel on them than a 444. Not really much point in getting rid of them really :s
 

Dennis

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Considering the data in the thread about Pendo power consumption (http://www.railforums.co.uk/showthread.php?t=9782) and with the ever increased cost of electricity, it seems a little odd that SWT should want rid of these units (unless it's part of the franchise commitment). Surely they will find use elsewhere - Brighton seems the obvious choice to me.
 

paul1609

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Considering the data in the thread about Pendo power consumption (http://www.railforums.co.uk/showthread.php?t=9782) and with the ever increased cost of electricity, it seems a little odd that SWT should want rid of these units (unless it's part of the franchise commitment). Surely they will find use elsewhere - Brighton seems the obvious choice to me.

It all boils down to money Dennis. The savings from closing Bournemouth Depot are enormous. It doesnt make sense having 2 depots on the same main line 30 miles apart. I reckon this has been Stagecoachs stratedgy for retaining the franchise for some time. It was apparent to them that the second franchise was going to be a lot tougher than the generous terms of the first.

I'd speculate that fares will begin to rise next year and that we may even see some evening restrictions on departures from Waterloo!
 

TheSlash

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Siemens are already having to plan to out station fitters there, as a significant number of 44's will be based at the depot over night.
The thing that is making me chuckle the most, is the thought of SWT and Siemens having to organise getting all these units to Northam for planned maintenance. 8-)
 

paul1609

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I think its prehaps significant that Northam is the only Siemens Depot in the Uk thats not owned by them :)
I cant say more at the moment.
 

TheSlash

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I think thats a formality Paul, if my memory serves me correctly, it's owned by the same company that owns the trains.
 

trains2

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I think this is now publically official, it was on BBC Radio Solent this morning and I expect Paul Clifton will be doing a report on South Today tonight.
 

Oracle

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Yes it was on Radio Solent DRIVE TIME this evening. As PC has said, those who commute on the Portsmouth Direct line pay amongst the highest season ticket prices in the south, and now for up to 1 1/1 hour journey they will have less leg room and travel in outer-suburban stock. How ridiculous that it is cheaper now to build new trains than refurbish older trains. Mind you though, the 442s re-used 4-REP motors didn't they, to save money 20- years ago?
 
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Tom

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Indeed - they are still going strong though and they were completely rebuilt when the Wessies were made.
 

devon_metro

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Utter madness

I'm sure all of the passengers used to 444s will be disgusted. When the 442s are not really failing, considered old; which from pics of the interior i have seen they don't look it. Why get rid of em?
 

Oracle

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Why get rid of them? Because as explained by the BBC, in the new era of railway finances it is cheaper for the operating company, namely SWT, to buy new trains as against refurbishing old trains. Ridiculous isn't it!
 

960012

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Because they are the most expsnive train to run, and there reiabliy has gone down hill in recent years, you can't expect 40 year old traction equipment to go on for ever.
 

paul1609

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That's what I'm getting at, the 444s which are currently common on the fast Portsmouth Harbour services are 2+2 seated, wheras the 450s which it sounds like they are going to be replaced with on that service are 3+2 seated. As far as the 444s replacing 442s, it's the same, better or worse, depending on your point of view, but few can argue that replacing 444s with 450s is anything but a reduction in quality. It will also be interesting to see what happens in terms of train length, are the 450s mostly going to be run a 4 coaches, which although giving slightly more seats, is at the expence of packing the in a lot tighter, aswell as reductions in onboard facilities (no buffet) and luggage space (Portsmouth, with it's connections the the Isle of Wight and the continent must get a lot of holiday traffic). On the other hand, running as 8 coaches is likely to be overkill most of the time, and also depends on enough 450s being freed up. Then of cource, is the issue of busy times, when 444s run as 10 coach sets, will the 450s be run as 12 coaches, although again an 8 coach 450 will provide more seating than a 10 coach 444.
Apparently the main fast services to Portsmouth Harbour will retain 444s.
Even the sacred Bournemouth "Main" Line will see 450s on some services with some services rationalised.
Portsmouth via Eastleigh will be all 450.
Alton will be all 458
 

Coxster

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Were 1497 and 3417 moved to Wimbledon already (today)? Dad saw them shoot off up passed his work this afternoon with 73235 IIRC.
 
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Tom

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They're not "moving" to Wimbledon, they're going to be maintained there but stabled in Bournemouth
 

ChrisM

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Were 1497 and 3417 moved to Wimbledon already (today)? Dad saw them shoot off up passed his work this afternoon with 73235 IIRC.
73201 took them today to Wimbledon for some sort of unit testing.
 

ChrisCooper

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Because they are the most expsnive train to run, and there reiabliy has gone down hill in recent years, you can't expect 40 year old traction equipment to go on for ever.

40 years isn't that old for electric traction equipment though, look at the Island line with it's 70 year old trains, and also the traction equipment on the 455s and 456s is salvaged from SUBs and HAPs built in the late 50s and early 60s yet I'm sure they have quite a few years left in them. Where do you get the idea that they are the most expensive train to run from?
 
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