BR brand names - still exist?

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ChristopherJ

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Just curious to know if the brand names inherited to BR rolling stock under nationalisation still exist under privatisation?

There are certain names that seem to have vanished under privatisation; some include Intercity125 and Intercity225 for example. For the former HST seems to now be the substitute.

Perhaps the names were a trademark of BR and lost upon privatisation?
 
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Rhydgaled

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Some franchises are allowed to use the brands I think. For example when looking at some details of the ATW franchise I noticed they have an Alphaline brand licence.
 

Yew

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It's a shame the intercity brand was dropped, it would make it more difficult for people with tickets for local only trains to get on intercity trains by accident. (think LM only tickets on the wcml). Although there are a few places where a constant intercity brand could be disadvantageous (virgin and ec at Edinburgh for example?)
 

Zoe

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It's a shame the intercity brand was dropped, it would make it more difficult for people with tickets for local only trains to get on intercity trains by accident. (think LM only tickets on the wcml). Although there are a few places where a constant intercity brand could be disadvantageous (virgin and ec at Edinburgh for example?)
Great Western Trains did use the Intercity branding until they were fully acquired by First.
 

Rhydgaled

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Great Western Trains did use the Intercity branding until they were fully acquired by First.
Not sure about that. I thought the green livery with gold stripes was First's first livery for GW. The green and ivory with the bird logo started having the INTERCITY replaced with a second 'Great Western' before the gold stripes appeared.

INTERCITY Swallow was such a great logo, I was rather disapointed that East Coast didn't bring it back.

I still call them 125s and 225s. But old habits die hard!
To me it makes much more sence to call them Intercity 125s and Intercity 225s rather than calling Intercity 125s HSTs* and having to say "class 91 with mark 4 coaches, including DVT" rather than "Intercity 225". I try to refrain from shortenning it to 125 and 225 on here in case readers get confused since the class numbers aren't class 125 and class 225. I tend to shorten them to IC125 and IC225 instead.

* come on, talk of HighSpeed these days generally means 186mph+ lines, High Speed Train could easily be taken to mean stuff like Eurostars and other TGVs
 

Zoe

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Not sure about that. I thought the green livery with gold stripes was First's first livery for GW.
Yes it was but I clearly remember "Intercity Great Western" on a Great Western Trains coach in 1997. First fully acquired Great Western in 1998 so if the intericty branding was removed, it can't have been long before First took over.
 

Wyvern

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Some franchises are allowed to use the brands I think. For example when looking at some details of the ATW franchise I noticed they have an Alphaline brand licence.
The SSfT will licence the use of various trademarks in suitable cases.

Presumably a fee will be charged.

The Ecclesbourne Valley Railway for instance have recently "borrowed" the Pullman brand and trade mark
 

anthony263

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Not sure about that. I thought the green livery with gold stripes was First's first livery for GW. The green and ivory with the bird logo started having the INTERCITY replaced with a second 'Great Western' before the gold stripes appeared.

INTERCITY Swallow was such a great logo, I was rather disapointed that East Coast didn't bring it back.

I certainly agree about the Intercity Swallow livery not being brought back.

I wouldnt mind whoever gets the next GW franchise paint the trains in a green and white GW livery perhaps a return of the great western merlin livery
 

Zoe

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I wouldnt mind whoever gets the next GW franchise paint the trains in a green and white GW livery perhaps a return of the great western merlin livery
I doubt that is possible as the livery would have been copyright and First would most likely own the rights to it as they acquired Great Western Trains.
 

Rhydgaled

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I doubt that is possible as the livery would have been copyright and First would most likely own the rights to it as they acquired Great Western Trains.

By the look of it the livery was heavily influenced by Swallow though, so maybe the copywrite (except for Great Western Train's bird logo) is owned by DfT.
 

Zoe

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By the look of it the livery was heavily influenced by Swallow though
I'm not sure it could be proved that the decision to put a Merlin on the side of the power car was influenced by the fact that Intercity used a Swallow. Even if it was, it's not the same as a new company wanting to use the same livery as Great Western Trains.
 

91101

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The use of "225 Electric Service" or "225 Mallard Service" is still quite often referred to in pre departure announcements on board East Coast, presumably as GNER used the term, and they made reference to "225, 125 and White Rose" to differentiate between stock types for safety announcements. Quite a few old hands still do make the reference to 225, but very rarely to 125's oddly.

Regarding bringing back any of the BR Brands or Intercity or Merlin Livery: NO!

Like it or not, this is not 1989, and the halcyon days are long gone, and so are those brands, they were designed of an age, and belong to an age. I am sorry, but I think we need to look at the reality: the railway is a modern business in the BUSINESS of attracting custom, competing with modern brands.

BA might bring back classic elements from their heritage, but you don't see them bringing back 1980's liveries on their planes.
 

DaveNewcastle

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As the adage says, we should be careful what we wish for.
In just the same way as Local Authorities in the 1990's enjoyed exploiting their heritage (e.g. "Shakespeare's County" and "Catherine Cookson's County") we may find our TOCs brands become "The Harry Potter Line" or "Thomas The Tank Railways".

Seriously, in terms of legacy Intellectual Property, I am strongly in favour of all rights elapsing after a fixed persion beyond the death of the creator, whether an Individual or Corporate body, and would wish to see that period begin when any Corporate body has failed to make use of the Mark or Brand.

In short, I can see no benefit in preventing the re-use of unused, legacy brands after an appropriate time (with a similar outcome as the release of unused internet domain names after an agreed period of time).
 

Zoe

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In short, I can see no benefit in preventing the re-use of unused, legacy brands after an appropriate time (with a similar outcome as the release of unused internet domain names after an agreed period of time).
But if a company lets a domain expire and you register it, I believe they can take legal action to get the domain off you if it infringes on their brand.
 

Lampshade

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But if a company lets a domain expire and you register it, I believe they can take legal action to get the domain off you if it infringes on their brand.

No they can't; the most they could do is sue for libel/defamation if it's used to intentionally smear or slander the company, otherwise it's fair game - you have purchased, legitimately, a product that was for sale, it's the company's fault they didn't get there first.
 

Zoe

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DaveNewcastle

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In short, I can see no benefit in preventing the re-use of unused, legacy brands after an appropriate time (with a similar outcome as the release of unused internet domain names after an agreed period of time).
But if a company lets a domain expire and you register it, I believe they can take legal action to get the domain off you if it infringes on their brand.
Indeed. Such a Company can attempt such an action. Why not.

But that is not the point I was making in respect of, specifically, "unused, legacy brands" by which I was trying to create a category of Brands which couldn't, by definition, fall within your wording of "if it infringes on their brand".

Perhaps you can help me here. I'm unclear what issue(s) you were hoping to clarify.
 

Zoe

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Perhaps you can help me here. I'm unclear what issue(s) you were hoping to clarify.
I was referring to a case where a company simply fogets to renew their domain name and someone jumps in quick to register it as at the time it would be an unused domain name.
 

Rhydgaled

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I'm not sure it could be proved that the decision to put a Merlin on the side of the power car was influenced by the fact that Intercity used a Swallow. Even if it was, it's not the same as a new company wanting to use the same livery as Great Western Trains.

I wasn't suggesting GW put the Merlin there because IC had a Swallow. What I meant was the two-tone colour scheme was similar (dark grey becoming dark green and yellow-ish off-white becoming ivory), they just got rid of the red stripe. The logo was very definiatly GW, and First probablly do own that now, as you said.
 

Clip

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To me it makes much more sence to call them Intercity 125s and Intercity 225s rather than calling Intercity 125s HSTs* and having to say "class 91 with mark 4 coaches, including DVT" rather than "Intercity 225". I try to refrain from shortenning it to 125 and 225 on here in case readers get confused since the class numbers aren't class 125 and class 225. I tend to shorten them to IC125 and IC225 instead.

Always called them 125s and thats it.

Though when I was the announcer at KGX I used to use what 91101 was alluding too with regards to the White rose and the Mallard services.

No need to put HST in front nor behind anything.
 

starrymarkb

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BA might bring back classic elements from their heritage, but you don't see them bringing back 1980's liveries on their planes.

Retrojets are quite common. Air France, Lufthansa, Thai, Aer Lingus, Alitalia, CSA, SAS all have them. BA painted their last 757 in it's original livery.

 

ex-railwayman

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Regarding bringing back any of the BR Brands or Intercity or Merlin Livery: NO!
Like it or not, this is not 1989, and the halcyon days are long gone, and so are those brands, they were designed of an age, and belong to an age. I am sorry, but I think we need to look at the reality: the railway is a modern business in the BUSINESS of attracting custom, competing with modern brands.

Well said that person, to see a yellow and blue HST with Inter-City 125 emblazoned on it today would cause extreme confusion, or, panic, you'd think you were asleep and still living in the 80's.

B.R. was a state owned company, it belongs in history, not, in the Capitalist present.

Cheerz. ex-railwayman.
 
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