Proposal for a new Bradford-Leeds Airport Parkway Station (on existing line)

[Eric]

Page 17 of today's Telegraph & Argus has a good article about the station which hopes to open in 5 years time.

To support expected growth at the airport, and to support job creation in the wider north west Leeds area, the Council, working with West Yorkshire Combined Authority, Leeds Bradford Airport and key stakeholders has put forward the following proposals:

- A new airport parkway rail station, located on the existing Leeds-Harrogate Line, with a short connecting spur road to the airport to provide a shuttle bus connection similar to that at Luton Airport. This would also serve as a park and ride service for destinations on the Leeds-Harrogate Line and beyond...

Bradford and Leeds council will have to acquire property to build the new route.

Can all this be done in five years time?

 

[BillyBoy]

This has been talked about for a couple of years at least, so, if they carry on talking about it, no!

As I understand it the station will be built on the Leeds - Harrogate line. The new "route" is for the shuttle bus to run to and from the airport.

 

[Shaw S Hunter]

Article here: https://www.thetelegraphandargus.co...-to-support-growth-of-leeds-bradford-airport/

Note that a rail link direct to the airport is all but ruled out as "difficult to achieve" and "prohibitively expensive".

 

[greyman42]

This has been talked about for a couple of years at least, so, if they carry on talking about it, no!

As I understand it the station will be built on the Leeds - Harrogate line. The new "route" is for the shuttle bus to run to and from the airport.

Where on the Leeds-Harrogate would the station be?

 

[DarloRich]

Note that a rail link direct to the airport is all but ruled out as "difficult to achieve" and "prohibitively expensive".

becuase of the massive hill?

 

[MarkyT]

As I understand it the station will be built on the Leeds - Harrogate line. The new "route" is for the shuttle bus to run to and from the airport.

Parking shuttle buses already run out to lots to the east side of the airport on a dedicated private road. I suspect this system might be extended a little to the station via the proposed new road, which might open up some more farmland for additional airport parking spaces as well if there's a need. I can't see the new station being of much use as anything other than an airport railhead however, with public access roads rather poor, and probably requiring some significant expenditure. A better general purpose parkway site might be at the other end of Bramhope tunnel around Arthington Junction, but that woudl be much too far from the airport. I wonder if they considered extending the private road a little further and running the shuttle buses to Horsforth station instead for rail interchange. That might be cheaper whole life than building and operating a new station, and would avoid the journey time penalty of an additional stop for those not going to the airport.

 

[Shaw S Hunter]

becuase of the massive hill?

Correct. Not to mention the terminal being some distance inside the perimeter when coming from the existing line.

 

[MarkyT]

becuase of the massive hill?

If the climb started immediately after leaving Horsforth station, it might be possible to get up the hill by rail. See here:
https://www.railforums.co.uk/thread...-from-the-harrogate-line.169772/#post-3649425
Whether it would be economic is another matter altogether.

 

[greyman42]

If you where starting with a blank canvas you would build a new terminal at the Leeds end of the airport with a funincular down to the Harrogate line. The current terminals a rabbit warren of piecemeal extensions.
North of Watford so never happen.
K

So what was the difference with Manchester Airport. Is it the hill?

 

[bluenoxid]

The plan is to build a new link road that could run around the eastern side of the airport if that route is chosen. The apparently marginal business case for the station relies on this link road (hopefully the traffic isn’t too bad) and a 350 space car park.

Personally I think a dedicated route through all of the airport car parks, an upgraded Scotland Lane plus a new link road to the station or cable car to an upgraded Horsforth railway station would be better than this plan which could end up with an infrequently served railway station.

 

[Eric]

The plan is to build a new link road that could run around the eastern side of the airport if that route is chosen. The apparently marginal business case for the station relies on this link road (hopefully the traffic isn’t too bad) and a 350 space car park.

Personally I think a dedicated route through all of the airport car parks, an upgraded Scotland Lane plus a new link road to the station or cable car to an upgraded Horsforth railway station would be better than this plan which could end up with an infrequently served railway station.

I agree. There needs to be a station at the airport or a dedicated shuttle/bus from Horsforth that makes transferring from the train to the bus as easy as possible. Building a new station on the existing line would be a waste of public money as you would still need to catch a bus to get to the airport.

How far is it from the line to the main terminal entrance?

 

[greyman42]

If there is going to be a shuttle bus, the vast majority of passengers will surely find it more convenient to use the one from Leeds station.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

If the climb started immediately after leaving Horsforth station, it might be possible to get up the hill by rail. See here:
https://www.railforums.co.uk/thread...-from-the-harrogate-line.169772/#post-3649425
Whether it would be economic is another matter altogether.

Leaving costs aside for a moment, one way around the elevation problem would be to build a station underground beneath the terminal, accessed by high-capacity elevators from within a surface building. This would allow a near-level spur from the existing railway and avoid much of the disruption caused by a surface construction.

 

[bluenoxid]

If there is going to be a shuttle bus, the vast majority of passengers will surely find it more convenient to use the one from Leeds station.

Leeds traffic is dire. In the time it can take the bus to crawl past Cardigan Fields, the passengers on a rail-bus link could be entering the airport terminal. WYCA and the bus operator are atrocious at promoting the bus route.

Try looking at passenger numbers before raising the North v South argument. London's 4 main airports (LGW, LHR, LTN, STN) each handle multiple the numbers of passengers that LBA does. Indeed within the UK LBA is only 12th busiest. I would suggest that both Bristol and Nottingham-East Midlands have better cases for a direct rail link yet am unaware of any suggestion that such things be built.

Bristol does have a desire and local political leaders are interested. East Midlands is unsure with HS2 set to shake things up in this area. I understand that previously they were looking at an extension to NET.

 

[Shaw S Hunter]

Leeds traffic is dire. In the time it can take the bus to crawl past Cardigan Fields, the passengers on a rail-bus link could be entering the airport terminal. WYCA and the bus operator are atrocious at promoting the bus route.

I suspect a dedicated shuttle bus from/to Horsforth station is the best immediate way forward especially if it receives a higher frequency train service as part of the improved Harrogate line timetable.

Bristol does have a desire and local political leaders are interested. East Midlands is unsure with HS2 set to shake things up in this area. I understand that previously they were looking at an extension to NET.

A quick search suggests that any Bristol scheme will come up against a very similar problem to LBA ie a significant height difference between the airport and the nearest railway line making a link expensive. They have not yet ruled out a light-rail alternative. The problem for EMA is its diffuse catchment area; link with Nottingham and Derby is left out, and v.v. And what about Leicester?

All three airports under discussion are perhaps short of critical mass in terms of current passenger numbers unless a low-cost approach is taken.

 

[johnnychips]

“All three airports under discussion are perhaps short of critical mass in terms of current passenger numbers unless a low-cost approach is taken.”

A good post. A majority of passengers at Leeds/Bradford will be British, either going on holiday or visiting friends and relatives, and I suspect the same would apply to EMA and my own local airport, Doncaster. As such most people will find it more convenient, and probably cheaper, to park at the airport; get someone to drop them off; or share a taxi.

Larger airports like the London ones and Manchester evidently have more passengers, but also a larger catchment area and more inbound tourists and business people. Such airports merit, and indeed get, better public transport.

 

[thejuggler]

Forget the spin, its no more than a railway Park and Ride station for commuters living in north Leeds, it just happens to be close to the airport. There's no doubt the area needs it as commuting from north Leeds into Leeds centre is a nightmare, but to believe trains will be full of passengers getting to or from LBA is delusional.

If the airport wanted a Parkway station with shuttle bus they could do it now. Apperley Bridge is only 2-3 miles from the airport.

 

[Ron Hale]

Forget the spin, its no more than a railway Park and Ride station for commuters living in north Leeds, it just happens to be close to the airport. There's no doubt the area needs it as commuting from north Leeds into Leeds centre is a nightmare.

If the airport wanted a Parkway station with shuttle bus they could do it now. Apperley Bridge is only 2-3 miles from the airport.

From my reading of the local press this is the truth of the matter.

 

[MarkyT]

“All three airports under discussion are perhaps short of critical mass in terms of current passenger numbers unless a low-cost approach is taken.”

A good post. A majority of passengers at Leeds/Bradford will be British, either going on holiday or visiting friends and relatives, and I suspect the same would apply to EMA and my own local airport, Doncaster. As such most people will find it more convenient, and probably cheaper, to park at the airport; get someone to drop them off; or share a taxi.

A bit chicken and egg though. Without good public transport, there will be little use of it, even though low cost airlines certainly encourage travelling light today which helps when getting a bus or train to the airport. I have no problem with bus links for the 'last mile' or two from a station nearby for smaller airports. They must be fast and reliable though and run frequently and regularly at all hours the airport is operating and people are working there. Airport personnel travel is also a good potential market. These links could be a good opportunity for autonomous bus technology or smaller pods on dedicated lanes, to help maintain journey time reliability and keep staffing costs of frequent or on demand 24 hour service under control.

 

[MarkyT]

I'm not sure what the proposed additional parkway adds for general north Leeds mobility that couldn't be delivered just as well by Horsforth suitably improved, which is much better connected by road and local bus. There's room for more parking and a new access road could come in alongside the railway, perhaps running next to an airport rail branch as I described earlier. It's possible some people who currently use bus to transfer to rail at Horsforth will drive in the wrong direction back to the new parkway to pick up the train, but unless the services miss out calls further in overall journey time could rise.

 

[Old Yard Dog]

Page 17 of today's T&A has a good article about the station which hopes to open in 5 years time.

Bradford and Leeds council will have to aquire property to build the new route.

Can all this be done in five years time?

Not sure why Bradford council would want to support this.

A station on the Leeds - Harrogate line will be of no benefit to the people of Bradford who would need to take two trains and a bus to get to the airport instead of just a direct bus.

 

[Eric]

Not sure why Bradford council would want to support this.

A station on the Leeds - Harrogate line will be of no benefit to the people of Bradford who would need to take two trains and a bus to get to the airport instead of just a direct bus.

I presume with the airports name and catchment area of passengers that Bradford Council would contribute and back the proposal to get the new station over the line.

Having travelled on the 747 Flying Tiger service, I think it would still be quicker getting the train and changing at Leeds than getting caught up in the crawling traffic between Apperley Bridge and Yeadon.

 

[yorkie]

This thread is to discuss the proposals for a new station on the existing line.

Please use a relevant thread in the Speculative Ideas section if you wish to suggest ideas for a dedicated rail link, or any other idea.

There is already a thread titled Bradford/Leeds Airport - rail served with a triangle from the Harrogate Line?; if this is unsuitable for your idea please feel free to create a new one.

 

[yorkie]

I presume with the airports name and catchment area of passengers that Bradford Council would contribute and back the proposal to get the new station over the line.

Having travelled on the 747 Flying Tiger service, I think it would still be quicker getting the train and changing at Leeds than getting caught up in the crawling traffic between Apperley Bridge and Yeadon.

This seems very far-fetched; I agree with others that Bradford council isn't likely to be interested in providing funding for the proposed station.

 

[Eric]

This seems very far-fetched; I agree with others that Bradford council isn't likely to be interested in providing funding for the proposed station.

What about the roads and infrastructure? The airport is Bradford and Leeds after all.

 

[bluenoxid]

As a resident of Leeds I struggle with these proposals.

The proposed station has what appears to be a marginal business case.
There is no guarantee that the station will get a frequent 3 or 4tph service.
Accelerating and decelerating a train in such a short stretch is particularly wasteful
We don’t know if the bus shuttle will charge
The bus shuttle will have to rely on local roads to access the airport so it can be impacted by congestion
Any additional Leeds-Horsforth services would not benefit the airport
Not happy with linking a railway station to road building.

Pros

It is one of the better value and quicker options compared to constructing a rail link
Reduced opposition from local residents in north Horsforth. Can easily build a car park here.

 

[DarloRich]

I agree. There needs to be a station at the airport or a dedicated shuttle/bus from Horsforth that makes transferring from the train to the bus as easy as possible. Building a new station on the existing line would be a waste of public money as you would still need to catch a bus to get to the airport.

How far is it from the line to the main terminal entrance?

why is the mere fact that you have to catch a bus to the airport that a waste of money? On that metric we best shut Luton Airport Parkway. Perhaps we ought to have a look at Birmingham international also. Teesside Airport will also have to go. Oh hang on.................

I presume with the airports name and catchment area of passengers that Bradford Council would contribute and back the proposal to get the new station over the line.

Having travelled on the 747 Flying Tiger service, I think it would still be quicker getting the train and changing at Leeds than getting caught up in the crawling traffic between Apperley Bridge and Yeadon.

I think your political antenna may need a tune up!

 

[quantinghome]

As it stands Horsforth station has limited parking, which ( I guess) spills over into the surrounding streets. I can't see how a bus shuttle to Horsforth would work given the congested streets the shuttle would have to travel over and the lack of space to have a proper drop off / pick up area.

The proposed station solves these two problems by (i) providing a much larger car park for commuters to the North of Leeds wishing to railhead and (ii) providing a dedicated link road that presumably will only be accessed by the bus, thus making the bus shuttle concept a far more reliable and attractive proposition with a 36-52 minute journey on the 757 turning into a 20+ minute journey by train + shuttle bus.

The other point not yet raised is that a large employment zone is planned next to LBA to counteract the loss of employers in NW Leeds over the past few decades. I agree that describing the station as an Airport Parkway is a bit of marketing spin. Nevertheless, Commuters into Leeds + Commuters to employment hub + airport passengers and staff = significant demand for station.

 

[xotGD]

5 years to build a basic shack. Pathetic.

How many 4-runway international airports with dedicated inter-city rail hubs will have opened in China before we get a 2-platform station and a bus shelter to serve LBA?

 

[tbtc]

Worth pointing out that any separate spur for the Airport would mean any train running on the Leeds - Horsforth corridor serving the Airport would be doing so at the expense of Harrogate/ Knaresborough, which is quite an Opportunity Cost.

5 years to build a basic shack. Pathetic.

How many 4-runway international airports with dedicated inter-city rail hubs will have opened in China before we get a 2-platform station and a bus shelter to serve LBA?

If Leeds-Bradford was a prestigious airport with four runways and hundreds of lucrative business flights then I could understand your frustration.

Instead, it's the airport equivalent of a two platform train station with only a plastic bus shelter for facilities, which is why there's not a rush to build anything.

https://insideflyer.co.uk/2018/01/what-are-the-busiest-airports-in-the-uk/

1. Heathrow: 75,991,000
2. Gatwick: 43,686,000
3. Manchester: 26,018,000
4. Stansted: 24,365,000
5. Luton: 15,002,000
6. Edinburgh: 12,471,000
7. Birmingham: 11,832,000
8. Glasgow: 9,392,000
9. Bristol: 7,721,000
10. Belfast International: 5,315,000
11. Newcastle: 4,883,000
12. Liverpool: 4,782,000
13. East Midlands: 4,708,000
14. London City: 4,540,000
15. Leeds Bradford: 3,669,000
16. Aberdeen: 2,951,000
17. Belfast City: 2,647,000
18. Southampton: 1,982,000
19. Cardiff: 1,347,000
20. Doncaster Sheffield: 1,296,000

Even if 10% of passengers used the train that'd only be five hundred departing passengers per day - not worth a dedicated branch (when passenger numbers on the Harrogate line require more services to Harrogate).

LBA exists mainly for "low cost" flights to the usual resorts and a few city breaks - if it was a proper/ big airport then there wouldn't be the requirement for Leeds to have a half hourly service to Manchester Airport.

Instead, a station on the existing line makes a lot of sense as it'll be used by commuters from the leafier places north of Leeds that don't currently have access to the train (Otley and whatnot), so serves two markets. Quite clever, I reckon. A dedicated Airport branch for such a lightly used Airport would be a waste. If you can serve it with a station on the Harrogate line then fair enough though.