Break of journey at Stansted Airport

[SVG2076]

Hello all, I have a question regarding the break of journey at Stansted Airport[SSD] for super off peak ticket from London Liverpool Street[LST]-Cambridge[CBG] (GA only) ticket.

The LST-CBG via GA ticket costs 11.50 for super off peak single and is definitely valid for changing trains at Stansted Airport as national rail enquiries show that this is a permitted route. A normal anytime single to Stansted Airport costs 18.90 instead.

Restriction code for this ticket is FA, which does not specify no break of journey.
Then can the ticket be used for London-Stansted Airport journey?

Also, if it is Sunday morning, which Stansted Express trains operate far earlier than the first Cambridge train (first Stansted Express at 0410, first Cambridge train at 0742), can the ticket be used to take a train for like 0600?

 

[ForTheLoveOf]

Hello all, I have a question regarding the break of journey at Stansted Airport[SSD] for super off peak ticket from London Liverpool Street[LST]-Cambridge[CBG] (GA only) ticket.

The LST-CBG via GA ticket costs 11.50 for super off peak single and is definitely valid for changing trains at Stansted Airport as national rail enquiries show that this is a permitted route. A normal anytime single to Stansted Airport costs 18.90 instead.

Restriction code for this ticket is FA, which does not specify no break of journey.
Then can the ticket be used for London-Stansted Airport journey?

Also, if it is Sunday morning, which Stansted Express trains operate far earlier than the first Cambridge train (first Stansted Express at 0410, first Cambridge train at 0742), can the ticket be used to take a train for like 0600?

Yes, there are no break of journey restrictions on this ticket so you may stop your journey short at Stansted Airport.

In case you're worried about potential issues at the barriers (which are human manned at Stansted), it's easy enough to exit without passing through them by going to the buffer-stop end of the platform. This is both an entrance and an exit but it seems never to be manned.

 

[island]

You are likely to be challenged by barrier staff at Stansted Airport who will say you are off route and doubling back between Stansted Mountfitchet and Stansted Airport.

This isn’t a defensible claim, but could cause you unnecessary faff. Therefore heading to the down end of the platform would be advisable.

 

[Paul Kelly]

You are likely to be challenged by barrier staff at Stansted Airport who will say you are off route and doubling back between Stansted Mountfitchet and Stansted Airport.

There have been direct Greater Anglia services between Stansted Airport and Cambridge for some time now; no need for any doublebacks.

 

[SVG2076]

I just gathered more information about the ticket.

The 11.50 greater anglia only ticket to Cambridge is a super off-peak day single which break of journey is NOT permitted strangely. I assume that I have to buy a more expensive 17.30 Audley End ticket instead.

It is interesting to see the tickets to Cambridge from London on weekends is far cheaper than going to Harlow Town on WAML......

 

[island]

The 11.50 greater anglia only ticket to Cambridge is a super off-peak day single which break of journey is NOT permitted strangely.

Who told you that?

 

[SVG2076]

It is stated upon purchasing the ticket on GA website

 

[island]

It’s not on http://nationalrail.co.uk/FA which purports to show the official restrictions.

 

[SVG2076]

It’s not on http://nationalrail.co.uk/FA which purports to show the official restrictions.

It is not shown within restriction FA. That’s why I am confused about the restriction. However when you try to check the ticket validity on greater anglia, it shows that super off-peak day single for GA on weekends is not valid for break of journey.

 

[embers25]

The staff at Stansted challenge every ticket when break of journey is involved and so best to just use one of the exits that avoids them (one of the lifts works for that too!) as in my experience it requires quite a discussion before they finally give up. I've almost missed a train before due to arguments as they are not knowledgaeble at all. The ticket office can also be rather awkward there and often refuses to sell tickets that aren't originating at the airport.

 

[SVG2076]

It’s not on http://nationalrail.co.uk/FA which purports to show the official restrictions.

I have just called an advisor on National Rail Enquires. The advisor told me that I can break my journey at stansted airport supported by the fact that the ticket restriction is FA. This is ambiguous to the information on the greater anglia website......

Can a train operator imposes restrictions on a ticket without putting it in the national rail restriction code system?

 

[Hadders]

The Greater Anglia website is wrong and break of journey is allowed on the ticket you wish to use.

The problem you'll face is if staff at Stansted Airport Station think break of journey isn't allowed.

 

[PG]

It is stated upon purchasing the ticket on GA website

Didn't GA get their knuckles rapped over something to do with their website giving inaccurate information recently? The details escape me but I'm sure someone will enlighten us...

It shows they've got form for this kind of thing

 

[Paul Kelly]

It's true - this ticket type does bar break of journey. It doesn't need to be mentioned in the restriction code because it is already barred in the ticket's validity information. However not very many online sources show this, BR Fares included. It's now on the to-do list to be included in the information displayed on BR Fares very soon.

 

[SVG2076]

It's true - this ticket type does bar break of journey. It doesn't need to be mentioned in the restriction code because it is already barred in the ticket's validity information. However not very many online sources show this, BR Fares included. It's now on the to-do list to be included in the information displayed on BR Fares very soon.

So tomorrow morning if i want to head to Stansted Airport, should I use the Audley End ticket to save money instead of Cambridge?

 

[arb]

https://ojp.nationalrail.co.uk/service/ticketterms/show?&ticketTypeCode=SO2&ticketRestriction=FA says that break of journey is allowed.

 

[SVG2076]

https://ojp.nationalrail.co.uk/service/ticketterms/show?&ticketTypeCode=SO2&ticketRestriction=FA says that break of journey is allowed.

However based on the information provided above in #14, the ticket type SO1 already prohibits the break of journey. Therefore there is no need to impose any restriction code to bar the break of journey for the ticket. I assume I will have no luck in doing that.

 

[arb]

The link I gave isn't the restriction code. It's what National Rail Enquiries tells you about the ticket code SO2 (I chose the return, not the single), when you click on the "1 x Adult - Super Off Peak Day Return" link towards the bottom of the page after selecting an appropriate journey in the journey planner.

 

[SVG2076]

The link I gave isn't the restriction code. It's what National Rail Enquiries tells you about the ticket code SO2 (I chose the return, not the single), when you click on the "1 x Adult - Super Off Peak Day Return" link towards the bottom of the page after selecting an appropriate journey in the journey planner.

However when you try to book the ticket on Greater Anglia / Crosscountry, clicking into the super off-peak day single hyperlink, it shows that break of journey is not possible as a ticket restriction......

It is confusing enough for GA to provide this ticket only for Liv Street-Cambridge customers (this dirt cheap super off-peak day tickets are only between London and Cambridge but not any stations in between, resulting charging passengers to Harlow Town an even more expensive fare than to Cambridge during weekends)

 

[yorkie]

If a passenger purchases the ticket from a retailer where the terms state break of journey is allowed, then contractually, break of journey is allowed on that ticket.

The issue here is that GA want to do what airlines can easily do: provide a cheap ticket for Cambridge to London (only) where there is competition from an otherwise more competitive service, while charging higher fares for intermediate journeys for which there is no such competition.

The practice is extremely widespread in the transport industry but train companies cannot easily prevent people starting or finishing short.

This is a clear example of market based pricing. Given Government subsidy levels and policies (let's not debate the rights or wrongs of these on this thread), this benefits customers overall, as there is a much greater chance that GA would increase the cheaper ticket than decrease the more expensive ones, if they were unable to use market based pricing.

 

[Paul Kelly]

It's true - this ticket type does bar break of journey. It doesn't need to be mentioned in the restriction code because it is already barred in the ticket's validity information. However not very many online sources show this, BR Fares included. It's now on the to-do list to be included in the information displayed on BR Fares very soon.

www.brfares.com now shows the full ticket type-based break of journey restrictions from the fares database, if any, under the "Validity" heading, on both the main full results page and on the fare detail page. There are a few surprises in there!

 

[185143]

I used a LST-CBG Super off peak return recently. Wouldn't let me in the barriers at Tottenham Hale, but staff gladly let me through. My ticket was inspected by RPIs on several of the trains I was on, with no issue.

I broke my journey at most stations between Tottenham Hale and Cambridge!

 

[SVG2076]

www.brfares.com now shows the full ticket type-based break of journey restrictions from the fares database, if any, under the "Validity" heading, on both the main full results page and on the fare detail page. There are a few surprises in there!

This morning I went to Liv Street station and went to ticket office to ask for a Cambridge super off-peak single ticket and explicitly asked that if I can break my journey at Stansted Airport or not. Surprisingly, the ticket office told me that I can do that. Luckily there was no barrier staff at Stansted this morning.

I would like to ask if I was not allowed to break the journey at Stansted and charged for penalty fare by the Stansted staff, how likely that I could get away with the penalty fare given that :
1) NRE hotline staff said that I can break the journey
2) Liv Street staff said that I can break the journey
3) GA website said that I cannot break the journey
4) BR Fares (updated today) said that I cannot break the journey
5) I have checked the restriction code FA printed on the paper ticket online said that I can break the journey
6) I bought the ticket at Liv Street ticket office and expressed my intention to break the journey.

Anyways, with BR Fares updated I think I should use the old Audley End method in the future as it is guaranteed to be legal.

Also, if break of journey is not allowed, I assume a lot of passengers from Cambridge who decided to change to tube at Tottenham Hale will be fallen into the trap. It is a very common practice to buy a Liv Street ticket but exit at Tottenham Hale.

 

[MikeWM]

Well, that's a right pain. I often (briefly) break on the Travelcard equivalent of this ticket at either Bishop's Stortford or Stansted Airport, in order to go to the shops etc. I guess now I can't

Is this the first Travelcard that has BoJ restrictions on the outward/return legs? It's the first I've encountered.

 

[MikeWM]

I used a LST-CBG Super off peak return recently. Wouldn't let me in the barriers at Tottenham Hale, but staff gladly let me through.

Pretty much no NR ticket barriers accept these tickets, including LST, CBG and TOM. You'd have thought after over a year of issuing these they'd have at least updated those three to accept them

Fortunately Underground barriers do work fine (on the Travelcard version).

 

[Starmill]

I often (briefly) break on the Travelcard equivalent of this ticket at either Bishop's Stortford or Stansted Airport, in order to go to the shops etc. I guess now I can't

I would say you probably can. If you ask the ticket office, gateline or platform staff if you're allowed to go to the shops between trains using the particular ticket that you have, it is actually very likely that they will simply say yes.

Obviously, within your Travelcard zones, you can make an unlimited number of journeys, so no break of journey restriction would have any effect.

 

[jkdd77]

How on earth is a member of the public supposed to be aware of the subtle distinctions between the different 'species' of (Super) Off-Peak (Day) Singles/ Returns (e.g. CBA, SO2, SOH, SOD etc), given that the distinction is not made clear on any official site (and brfares is not an official site), and would not be remotely obvious to an ordinary consumer, who would neither know nor care that such a code existed behind the scenes, but simply treat them all as being a single ticket type, in this case, Super Off Peak Day Returns?

In this case, NRE, the "official source of information", clearly and unequivocally states that BoJ is permitted on this ticket (more specifically, stating that it is permitted unless forbidden by the restriction code, and the restriction code does not forbid it), as also does at least some official TOC booking engines. Under the Consumer Rights Act, information provided at the point of purchase, which is relied on in making the purchase decision, forms part of the contract for travel, and, in the event of
ambiguity, the consumer is to be given the benefit of the most favourable interpretation.

In addition, I note the following:
https://www.nationalrail.co.uk/times_fares/ticket_types/46590.aspx

Break of journey is allowed on the outward and return portions of Off-Peak tickets unless otherwise indicated by a restriction shown against the ticket's validity code.

Personally, I draw a distinction between the ticket type, (here, Super Off Peak Day Return), the ticket code (or sub-type) (here, SO1), and the restriction or validity code (here, FA).

I agree with yorkie that if the ticket is purchased from an official TOC website or other source stating that BoJ is permitted on this specific ticket, then the contract for travel thus formed permits BoJ. If no information is provided at all on BoJ at the time of purchase, then it is my opinion that the passenger is entitled to rely in good faith in the relevant information provided on NRE.

However, I cannot agree with yorkie that mushrooming BoJ restrictions on supposedly flexible tickets and the consequent substantial loss of consumer rights "benefit consumers overall"; on the contrary, it simply gives TOCs an opportunity to ruthlessly raise (unregulated) fares on the intermediate journeys, just as the proposed loss of the ability to 'split ticket', and the proposed abolition of 'regulated SVRs', will also harm consumers, for similar reasons.

All such loss of regulation/ consumer rights will lead to an increase in TOC profits at the expense of consumers, forcing thousands of passengers off the trains and into their cars. Is this really what we want? Those who favour "market-based pricing" should be careful what they wish for.