Break of journey on STD off-peak return

[trevwilliams]

I have a Gatwick Airport to Rochester off peak return. I made my outward journey last Friday 22nd August. I then want to return tommorow 29th August, but break my journey at East Croydon and stay overnight with friends and then go on to Gatwick on Sunday 30th. Can i do this or will I need to purchase a single from East Croydon to Gatwick for the final leg on Sunday. Thanks in advance for any advice.

 

[SS4]

I'm guessing you mean this ticket?

In this case you are allowed to break your journey as it says nothing about not being able to

 

[bb21]

The return portion of any period return ticket is valid for one calendar month. You can have as many breaks along the way as you wish within its validity. The only constraint is that you cannot backtrack.

 

[talldave]

Sunday's the 31st, by the way! If you're catching a plane, allow plenty of time as the work at London Bridge seems to be messing up the schedules on Gatwick services.

 

[trevwilliams]

Thanks guys. I've actually did the same journey a couple of weeks ago and on the RTR - VIC leg the train manager wrote the date across the ticket. I explained that I needed to break my journey at East Croydon and then resume the next day. She explained that I wasn't permitted to do that. I politely querried it and, to her credit, she called a colleague in a booking office who confirmed her. I left it at that. After arriving at Victoria I asked an RPI to clarify my suspicions and he too said that the break of journey on a different day was not permitted. Ho hum

 

[bb21]

A load of rubbish. That's all.

 

[trevwilliams]

Does it make a difference if it was discounted with a Network Card?

 

[bb21]

No, apart from the 1000 restriction on the Railcard.

 

[yorkie]

Thanks guys. I've actually did the same journey a couple of weeks ago and on the RTR - VIC leg the train manager wrote the date across the ticket.

All a mark on your ticket indicates is that you used the ticket up to that point. It remains valid for the remainder of the journey beyond whatever station you broke your journey at, within the validity period.

I explained that I needed to break my journey at East Croydon and then resume the next day. She explained that I wasn't permitted to do that.

Please report that so that appropriate training can be provided. If you can tell Southern what service it was, and on what day, that would be good.

I politely querried it and, to her credit, she called a colleague in a booking office who confirmed her. I left it at that. After arriving at Victoria I asked an RPI to clarify my suspicions and he too said that the break of journey on a different day was not permitted. Ho hum

There is clearly a training issue at Southern, this needs to be identified to Southern so it can be resolved. I am sure Barry Doe would be interested also.

 

[faddy]

All a mark on your ticket indicates is that you used the ticket up to that point.

But not where that point was? So how can it be established whether you've backtracked?

 

[MrJamesBrown]

But not where that point was? So how can it be established whether you've backtracked?

Ask the guard to put on the ticket the station you intend to leave the train is what I would ask

 

[Altnabreac]

But not where that point was? So how can it be established whether you've backtracked?

If no station is written on the ticket then a future inspector can infer is that you travelled at least 1 station from the initial station (in this case Sole Street or Strood).

If a headcode is written as well then it can be inferred you travelled at least to the first station that headcoded train called at.

Beyond that any marks on your ticket do not restrict its reuse for multiple journeys on mulitple dates up to the end of the period of validity stated on the ticket subject to you not doubling back.

While you can ask an inspector to write the station you are travelling to on the ticket you are under no obligation to do so.

 

[itsjustmyjob]

I recently travelled to Belfast on a 'SailRail' ticket from Halifax with an overnight break in Glasgow.
My ticket was dated by a guard with the start date (which matched the start date on the ticket). Next day, when I reached Ayr to catch the coach to Cairnryan it wouldn't open the ticket gate (ticket out of date I expect!) but there was no problem, the ticket inspector just wrote on the new date and opened the gate with a smile.
Maybe Scotrail staff see more breaks of journeys because of SailRail, but it didn't cause them any problems.

 

[yorkie]

But not where that point was?

Nope, I've known the date that the particular segment of the journey was made written on the ticket, but never the actual names of the stations written on. They could be, though, but the Guard would have to ask the passenger (unless the ticket expired at the next station, in which case no need to ask!)

Ask the guard to put on the ticket the station you intend to leave the train is what I would ask

I have tried stating that I intend to break my journey, but it never made any difference whatsoever, so I don't bother now.

 

[alastair]

All a mark on your ticket indicates is that you used the ticket up to that point. It remains valid for the remainder of the journey beyond whatever station you broke your journey at, within the validity period.
Please report that so that appropriate training can be provided. If you can tell Southern what service it was, and on what day, that would be good.

There is clearly a training issue at Southern, this needs to be identified to Southern so it can be resolved. I am sure Barry Doe would be interested also.

Funnily enough, Barry Doe has highlighted exactly this point in Rail 756 received this morning. Part of his piece:

" This is disgraceful. I have taken it up with senior staff of the operators concerned,who have expressed horror that this is going on".

The "this" being the practice of certain guards crossing out the expiry date of the return ticket and writing in the current date,and then wrongly telling people they must complete their whole return journey that day.

 

[talldave]

At least smart cards will eliminate this abuse of a customer's purchase, even if they do have a lot of disadvantages!

 

[yorkie]

At least smart cards will eliminate this abuse of a customer's purchase, even if they do have a lot of disadvantages!

I would suggest opening up a new thread to suggest that smart cards will solve problems, as I could point out many additional problems that smart cards will create, for which there is still no adequate solution. For example, group discounts, a Train Company buying a ticket for a representative of their Company (the identity of whom is not yet known), and many other issues, too numerous and detailed to justify going off-topic here.

 

[trevwilliams]

I just want to add that my experience involved both Southern and South East staff.

yorkie; Did you see my pm?

 

[anme]

I would suggest opening up a new thread to suggest that smart cards will solve problems, as I could point out many additional problems that smart cards will create, for which there is still no adequate solution. For example, group discounts, a Train Company buying a ticket for a representative of their Company (the identity of whom is not yet known), and many other issues, too numerous and detailed to justify going off-topic here.

We are indeed in danger of going off topic here... but I'll quickly respond. I think you're hoping for too much from *any* new ticketing system. No ticketing system will be perfect and no system will perfectly support every possible situation - just as current paper tickets don't. If we wait for the perfect system to be available we will never make any progress. If Stephenson had not built his Rocket because it wasn't as good as a TGV, we wouldn't have railways in the first place.

Even if the UK does move entirely over the smart cards for ticketing (which I don't think is the current plan), there will have to be some provision for tickets that don't 'fit' well on personal smart cards, and for people who don't have a personal smart card.

 

[Hadders]

To get back on topic!

I've done several journeys recently involving a break with no problems whatsoever. Just last night I made a journey involved two breaks of journey, one of which was overnight.

I don't usually say anything about breaking my journey to on-board staff and at the barrier I go to the assistant and simply state that I'm breaking my journey and have always been let through without question.

This morning upon resuming my journey following an overnight break there was a team of RPI's at the barrier. I simply said I was resuming my journey and I was let through!

I'm sure I'll encounter problems at some point but so far so good.

 

[peter166]

Checking the link that SS4 provided, doesn't the 8A restriction which is applied to the Off Peak Return mean that break of journey on the outward leg is not permitted??

 

[brompton rail]

Checking the link that SS4 provided, doesn't the 8A restriction which is applied to the Off Peak Return mean that break of journey on the outward leg is not permitted??

Correct

 

[talldave]

Correct

Although the query was about the return leg.

...I don't usually say anything about breaking my journey to on-board staff and at the barrier I go to the assistant and simply state that I'm breaking my journey and have always been let through without question....

I never volunteer any information to station or on-board staff; in Southern-land it invariably leads to an awkward situation where even my limited knowledge of my ticket's validity exceeds theirs. Sadly, since passengers travelling on UK trains appear to be treated as fair-dodgers until they've proven themselves innocent, the less said the better.

Ironically, since I've been using split tickets for my trips into London I've never had my ticket(s) checked.

 

[Hadders]

I quite enjoy having my ticket combinations checked by the guard. Experiences have included a scowl and a grudging acceptance, being told that what I'm doing will be illegal from next year, but more often than not a 'nod and a wink' and in some cases even being congratulated on my choice of tickets!

In one notable case I even had quite a lengthy conversation with a guard about the minutiae of the restrictions out of Paddington in the evening peak and how they could be circumnavigated

 

[Skimpot flyer]

This morning upon resuming my journey following an overnight break there was a team of RPI's at the barrier. I simply said I was resuming my journey and I was let through!.

Did they actually look at the date on the ticket, though?

 

[Hadders]

I couldn't be certain whether or not the RPI checked the date but he had a good stare at it for several seconds before opening the barrier for me.

 

[SickyNicky]

Checking the link that SS4 provided, doesn't the 8A restriction which is applied to the Off Peak Return mean that break of journey on the outward leg is not permitted??

It's worth remembering that an overnight stop where you can't complete your journey is not considered to be a break of journey and thus is permitted on a ticket that bars break of journey.