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Break of Journey
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In that case I can definitely see them asking for the difference between your Advance ticket fare and the Anytime Single (depending on what time you left London) as it does appear that you gained a financial advantage by stopping short (since effectively you were travelling home).
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roversfan2001
Established Member
Break of journey is not permitted on Advances, so as harsh as it is, Virgin East Coast were within their rights to ask you to pay the difference up to a fare that allows break of journey.
roversfan2001
Established Member
Can I just ask, what was this thread meant to achieve? I might be being a bit dim but all I see is a fairly straightforward stopping short on an Advance?
But the question remains, how did you not know this or did the company that sold the ticket fail to fulfil its obligations (under the contract and/or under consumer law) at the time of purchase? (Or were you not listening/reading obvious information?)
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Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
Most people "click past" Ts and Cs. Sometimes this catches them out.
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Mainline421
Member
Traveling short on advance tickets IS now allowed under the new conditions of travel from 1 October, and so I advise you write to VTEC quoting condition 16.4 if this occurred since then.
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
Oh im pretty sure the OP knew what they were doing - I mean why else would you even think of looking for journeys to Edinburgh when you were only going to Newcastle.
Seems to me like the OP tried to play the game and got caught doing so. 3 pages of interaction doesnt change this.
That is a matter of legal interpretation, and I think there are viable arguments to be tested on both sides of the debate, as we were discussing higher up this thread.
tannedfrog
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A great deal of discussion on BOJ over at http://www.hotukdeals.com/deals/15-...gin-trains-east-coast-2522882?page=4#comments
Mainline421
Member
Sorry I missed the earlier posts on this subject, but I don't think that an an 'ordinary' ticket can be defined solely as anytime tickets these days as they only make up around 10% of tickets purchased on long distance routes. I originally read 16.1 as excluding tickets such as Megatrain and short term special offers ('promotional Tickets').
Yes, but it also lists "discount" tickets. Does that include Advance tickets since they offer discounted travel?
I don't count an advance as a discount (eg. limited time special offer) or promotional (eg. free) ticket. However, it says especially these types.
What is clear is in VTEC's conditions that you can't get off early (probably since the advance to Newcastle could in theory cost more than to Edinburgh on occasions). So, they've put a blanket ban on booking advances to the far end of the UK to get a reduced price and jumping off half way there.
There's probably some legal stuff on how they get their revenue depending on destination too which explains these crazy situations.
What is clear is in VTEC's conditions that you can't get off early (probably since the advance to Newcastle could in theory cost more than to Edinburgh on occasions). So, they've put a blanket ban on booking advances to the far end of the UK to get a reduced price and jumping off half way there.
There's probably some legal stuff on how they get their revenue depending on destination too which explains these crazy situations.
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
That is how I see it. It'll have to be tested in Court - the clarifying "this is what we've changed" document ATOC provided and was posted on the other thread on this subject doesn't I think mention this change, so odds on it wasn't actually intended to change anything.
To me "Ordinary" would be interpreted as "Anytime" and possibly "Off Peak" - i.e. walk-up non-special-offer tickets.
Bletchleyite
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They are however certainly discounted.
greatkingrat
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If you say an advance ticket is discounted, then presumably an Off Peak Return is also discounted because it costs less than the corresponding Anytime Return.
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
It is indeed. One interpretation is that Ordinary indeed means Anytime.
I wouldnt say so as you can still use certain off peak tickets during the peak time so just because the price is cheaper does not automatically mean it is priced at a discount to the anytime fare. By that logic a standard class ticket must be discounted as it is less than the price of a 1st class ticket(yes yes yes I know).
However you could class 'ordinary' as a walk up ticket and then everything else as discounted.
I suspect that being able to end short on the outbound of some off-peak returns would cause all sorts of grumbles from Virgin with the off-peak ticket time restrictions on trains from London to Wales or Lancaster and north being far less restrictive than those to Chester and Preston and points south.
However one thing is certain, Anytime tickets are not ordinary -- as only 2% of people use anytime tickets.
However one thing is certain, Anytime tickets are not ordinary -- as only 2% of people use anytime tickets.
Anytime Returns are also often discounted, compared to buying two Anytime Singles...
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
They are however, or were, Ordinary. They are the direct descendent of the Ordinary Single and Return of days of yore.
OTOH, they should have specified what they meant.
Funnily enough, if you Google you do still see people using that term for a period return.
I'd never heard of it myself. The term Ordinary. Perhaps I'm too young
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