Break of journey

[chrisg]

Hi all

One question - if I buy an off peak day return (with a YP card) from Earlsfield to Walton on Thames, am I allowed to break my return journey at Wimbledon to leave the station and then resume my journey afterwards home to Earlsfield?

Cheers all.

 

[mikeg]

Yes, that's perfectly allowed. The return portion of CDRs (off peak day returns) apparently always allows break of journey, and the restriction code of that ticket also permits it.

 

[yorkie]

CDRs should always allow break of journey in both portions. I have received assurances from helpful people at ATOC that Simplification should not have reduced any BOJ rights, so if anyone ever finds any CDRs that prohibit BOJ on the outward portion, I want to know about them so I can have a word with ATOC!

SVRs, however, are only guaranteed to allow break of journey in the return direction, and for the outward you have to check the restriction code. Simple

 

[sheff1]

CDRs should always allow break of journey in both portions. I have received assurances from helpful people at ATOC that Simplification should not have reduced any BOJ rights, so if anyone ever finds any CDRs that prohibit BOJ on the outward portion, I want to know about them so I can have a word with ATOC!

Many London Midland CDRs are restriction SK which prohibits BOJ in both directions.

 

[yorkie]

Many London Midland CDRs are restriction SK which prohibits BOJ in both directions.

Well, the restriction on the return portion is not enforceable in my opinion. The outward portion is technically enforceable though in reality almost impossible to enforce. The CDRs you refer to are not inter-available CDRs priced by LM, but are routed "Ldn Midland Only". Before simplification they were routed "Central/Silverlink" and, of course, did not prohibit break of journey.

As they are TOC specific products, it's harder to make a case, however it can be argued that ATOC did make the claim that simplification would not result in increased fares or erosion of our rights, and here is evidence that their claims were not correct, so we could have a claim that they misled us.

In any case a senior member of LM staff has publicly advised people on this forum to start short on such tickets, so I would also use that evidence against them if they attempted to charge someone an excess fare.

 

[chrisg]

Aaah, glad it is allowed. I'm fed up with arsey staff at Wimbledon - the other day, the conversation went like this.

Staff: Earlsfield isn't far, you might as well stay on.

Me: I want to go and do some shopping and then go back later.

*staff memberlooks at tickets for a few seconds*

Staff: Well its only a short haul journey....I suppose you should come through then....

Next time an SWT staff member is rude to me, I will complain - it happens far too often!

 

[142094]

Some staff will often trot out the line "I'll let you off this time". Normally this means "I haven't been trained properly in the issue of break of journey", "I do not know what break of journey is or which ticket(s) it is valid on" or "I know what you are doing is perfectly valid but I don't want people to make a habit of it".

I had the same problem at Luton where the barrier staff took the ticket off me, and only gave it back when I said I was breaking my journey (put them in a huff).

 

[johnnycache]

Yes no problem and if the gates at Wimbledon have been properly set up they should open for that ticket

 

[Urban Gateline]

Yes no problem and if the gates at Wimbledon have been properly set up they should open for that ticket

Yes it should work as Wimbledon is along the route, but from experience it will only work one way (time delay on the ticket) so it's easiest to ask to be let out and then your ticket should work when you enter the station again!

 

[GarethW]

Some staff will often trot out the line "I'll let you off this time". Normally this means "I haven't been trained properly in the issue of break of journey", "I do not know what break of journey is or which ticket(s) it is valid on" or "I know what you are doing is perfectly valid but I don't want people to make a habit of it".

I had the same problem at Luton where the barrier staff took the ticket off me, and only gave it back when I said I was breaking my journey (put them in a huff).

In the last year I've had the same problem at Basingstoke more often than not, and also once at Winchester. SWT training (or not) of barrier staff seems to have gone down the tubes recently.

 

[Urban Gateline]

In the last year I've had the same problem at Basingstoke more often than not, and also once at Winchester. SWT training (or not) of barrier staff seems to have gone down the tubes recently.

True unfortunately, we get only 1 day of ticketing training and 2 days of barrier operation training, the rest of the training is Health and Safety, Security, Conflict Avoidance etc. Most of what we actually need to know is learnt "on the job"!

 

[wintonian]

True unfortunately, we get only 1 day of ticketing training and 2 days of barrier operation training, the rest of the training is Health and Safety, Security, Conflict Avoidance etc. Most of what we actually need to know is learnt "on the job"!

Surley the barriers can't be twice as complicated as the ticketing system?

In any case if they spent more time covering ticketing the lost time could be made up from the lack of need for conflict avoidance training.

 

[trainophile]

I'm sure I've seen this somewhere but can't remember the answer so apologies for asking again.

Is it allowable to break the return journey on an Off Peak Day Return ticket? Thinking of going Hereford to Barry Island (changing at Cardiff), and stopping off for an hour or so in Cardiff on the way back.

(Yes I have been watching Michael Portillo's travels! )

Just out of curiosity, would BoJ be permitted on the outward leg?

 

[hairyhandedfool]

BoJ is allowed on the return portion of an Off-Peak Day return. On this journey, BoJ is also allowed on the outward portion.

 

[trainophile]

Thank you. Keeps the options open then.

Wondering what the significance of "on this journey" is. Different rules for different routes?

 

[yorkie]

Thank you. Keeps the options open then.

Wondering what the significance of "on this journey" is. Different rules for different routes?

The Manual states that the return portion always allows break of journey. There is one TOC who goes against this, but I believe it is unenforceable and a senior manager of that TOC also encouraged passengers to start short (which counts under break of journey) so, as HHF, I would always confidently say you can break your journey on the return portion.

For the outward portion, the rules used to be "complicated" in that CDRs always allowed it. SSRs and SVRs did not allow it. Now it's "simple" (*cough*) and that for all types you have to consult the restriction code. (If you do not believe that our ticketing is simple, complain to Passenger Focus as it is they who asked for simplification, and complain to the DfT as it is they who Regulate fares, you could also complain to ASA as it is misleading).

In reality, as I said a few days ago, CDRs should always permit break of journey on the outward portion as ATOC have given assurances that we should not have lost rights under Simplification. There are some LM-Only CDRs that apparently restrict BOJ on the outward portion but I really would ignore that personally as they've said it's fine to start short on this forum. Apart from TOC-specific CDRs, I am yet to uncover any CDRs that prohibit break of journey on the outward portion and if any are found we can then make a complaint to ATOC/Passenger Focus about that, given the assurances that were given.

CDRs used to be called Cheap Day Returns however that was deemed complicated so they are now called Off Peak Day Returns, in order to be simple.

 

[trainophile]

Thank you for clarifying the serious stuff, and for the "simplification" explanation! I would say "you couldn't make it up", but the sad truth is that someone did. I'd imagine it was a case of "too many cooks", as one person working alone would surely see the irony of exchanging those last two ticket types on the basis of so-called simplification.

It's all part of the fun I suppose. I just hope they don't simplify it any more!

 

[Solent&Wessex]

True unfortunately, we get only 1 day of ticketing training and 2 days of barrier operation training, the rest of the training is Health and Safety, Security, Conflict Avoidance etc. Most of what we actually need to know is learnt "on the job"!

Much same for Guards at my TOC who actually only get about 1 - 2 days maximum on retail training, you are sort of expected to learn the rest as you go along.

 

[RJ]

Some staff will often trot out the line "I'll let you off this time"

Whenever I hear this, I smile and say thanks. No point in arguing the toss if the desired outcome has been reached.