Brexit and diesel emissions rules

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CAMO

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Hello all, I'm new here so thanks for having me. I can't see my question posted elsewhere so here goes - if the UK does leave the EU will that mean Diesel locomotives are no longer limited in their emissions? Could we see more 66s and locos which would previously have been outlawed? Just a thought.
 
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furnessvale

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Hello all, I'm new here so thanks for having me. I can't see my question posted elsewhere so here goes - if the UK does leave the EU will that mean Diesel locomotives are no longer limited in their emissions? Could we see more 66s and locos which would previously have been outlawed? Just a thought.

I suppose in theory the UK Gov could adopt its own, slacker emission regs.

In practice I doubt they would do so. In any case, the US has adopted very similar regs and, I think, the engine for the 66 cannot meet those regs and production has stopped.
 

AndyW33

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Just as with every "EU regulation" or "directive", the emission levels are embodied into UK law, either directly or by way of acts empowering ministers to make regulations without them being individually voted on by Parliament. So there would need to be another Act of Parliament or amended UK regulations to change the emission level rules. Somehow I doubt if this would be a high priority for any post-Brexit government, on the "it's not broke, why fix it" principle.

And class 66s - why, when the railborne coal traffic is in its death throes, would people order more general purpose freight locos. There'll be enough spare freight power soon enough, alas. Apart from that, I understand the actual model of diesel engine fitted to the 66s is now out of production, largely because it doesn't comply with US or Canadian emission regulations either, which was its home market
 

aformeruser

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Don't forget the UK government can influence EU law.

If we leave the EU and award orders to EU manufacturers who build the vehicles in the EU will they have to comply with both what UK and EU law states?
 

richa2002

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Don't forget the UK government can influence EU law.
Cameron's 'renegotiation' was a marvellous example of our influence :lol:. Our influence is only really felt if other countries happen to feel the same way too.
If we leave the EU and award orders to EU manufacturers who build the vehicles in the EU will they have to comply with both what UK and EU law states?
This is obviously cloud cuckoo land and well against the globalist agenda which is relentlessly pedalled but perhaps it would encourage a British manufacturer to emerge who can offer a product not bound by the regulations that EU manufacturers have to abide by. Assuming our government had the will to create the right environment for that. Doubtful I know but at least it's the British government deciding rather than the EU.
 
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Western Lord

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Hello all, I'm new here so thanks for having me. I can't see my question posted elsewhere so here goes - if the UK does leave the EU will that mean Diesel locomotives are no longer limited in their emissions? Could we see more 66s and locos which would previously have been outlawed? Just a thought.

Why would you believe that UK emissions laws would be slacker than the EU? If we left the EU we would make our own laws which could be stricter than the EU. The argument that if we left the EU we would not have this law or that law is absurd. We have a parliament which passes laws which we vote for. We can have whichever laws we want. The EU does not have a copyright on "good" laws. Whatever the merits of leaving or staying, the ability to make laws is not an issue.
 

najaB

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Hello all, I'm new here so thanks for having me. I can't see my question posted elsewhere so here goes - if the UK does leave the EU will that mean Diesel locomotives are no longer limited in their emissions? Could we see more 66s and locos which would previously have been outlawed? Just a thought.
Why do you want to less clean air with more pollutants?
 

aformeruser

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Cameron's 'renegotiation' was a marvellous example of our influence :lol:. Our influence is only really felt if other countries happen to feel the same way too.

Cameron was asking for existing EU rules to be changed and his priority was getting people like Boris in the pro-EU camp to reduce divisions in his own party opposed to looking at what rules need changing for Britain's benefit.

We have more influence over EU trade deals than countries like Norway who have to follow the rules to sell to EU countries but have no influence at all over making the rules.

but perhaps it would encourage a British manufacturer to emerge who can offer a product not bound by the regulations that EU manufacturers have to abide by.

But a product which meets EU standards will have more selling potential. Are you proposing a British manufacturer with no foreign shareholders which only builds for Britain? If so the costs may be much higher.

The reason we lost many British builders was because they had no overseas orders and under John Mayor's government British train orders were practically non-existent. Perhaps history shows we need to either build trains for EU countries in Britain or buy from EU countries.
 

LNW-GW Joint

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We have signed up to international climate change targets which means whatever the EU position we have to comply with them.
And we couldn't export anything non-compliant to the EU.
"Doing our own thing" is an illusion.

I've never forgotten a conversation I had with Swedes in the 1980s, along the lines of them blaming our power stations for generating acid rain which was killing their forests.
We denied the problem at the time (cheap coal and all that, don't tell us what to do, etc), and now we can't close the coal-fired power stations fast enough.
 
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Mikey C

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On Brexit, I can't imagine us having different emissions rules (whether for cars, buses, trucks or trains) than the EU zone, it just wouldn't make sense in a world of global manufacturing.

And that works in both directions, if we introduced tougher specs for engines than the rest of Europe, would manufacturers go to the effort to meet them, if they were specs that the EU had no intention of meeting?

With the controversy about cheat devices, and diesel engines that emit more NOx in the real world than the lab, air quality will be a massive issue whether we are in the EU or not.
 
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NSEFAN

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LNW-GW Joint said:
I've never forgotten a conversation I had with Swedes in the 1980s, along the lines of them blaming our power stations for generating acid rain which was killing their forests.
We denied the problem at the time (cheap coal and all that, don't tell us what to do, etc), and now we can't close the coal-fired power stations fast enough.
I thought that the primary reason for the coal-fired stations closing is that they're just not economical to run any more, given how old they are. The fact that new emissions regulations are coming in it would only worsen the business case, hence the closures.
 

CAMO

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Thanks for the responses. It's as I'd already concluded myself - no change. Particular thanks to those who responded in a positive manner.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Why do you want to less clean air with more pollutants?

Where did I say that I did?
 

6Gman

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Why would you believe that UK emissions laws would be slacker than the EU? If we left the EU we would make our own laws which could be stricter than the EU. The argument that if we left the EU we would not have this law or that law is absurd. We have a parliament which passes laws which we vote for. We can have whichever laws we want. The EU does not have a copyright on "good" laws. Whatever the merits of leaving or staying, the ability to make laws is not an issue.

Have to disagree with you there. In numerous areas our legislation has to follow common EU law.

Not saying whether that's a good thing or a bad thing, simply that it's the case.
 

YorkshireBear

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Add in the fact that the UK contributes more laws/standards/directives to the EU than anyone else because we are a damn good nation at writing them!

It is quite likely that this particular law was drafted up by the UK. Even if not and on a wider point regarding the EU, any politician/engineer etc who stands up after Brexit and says lets change this law to something potentially less safe/more environmentally damaging etc either is a fool or must be very confident he can justify themselves. Because if anything went wrong after a relaxation of rules it would all come back to them.
 

CAMO

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Well, you expressed an interest in older, more-polluting diesels.

No, I merely asked a question regarding them. I did not stipulate a personal preference for any change of regulation. I asked the opinion of forum members.
 

QueensCurve

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Cameron's 'renegotiation' was a marvellous example of our influence :lol:. Our influence is only really felt if other countries happen to feel the same way too.

We have a veto to most EU "requirements". The Cameron Government used that veto to block regulations that would have protected our steel industry from "dumping" of cheap chinese steel.

This is obviously cloud cuckoo land and well against the globalist agenda which is relentlessly pedalled but perhaps it would encourage a British manufacturer to emerge who can offer a product not bound by the regulations that EU manufacturers have to abide by. Assuming our government had the will to create the right environment for that. Doubtful I know but at least it's the British government deciding rather than the EU.

If through being "not bound" you produce a product which is non-compliant with EU requirements, then you can't sell it to countries within the EU.

Your sole market would be Little Britain, and they wouldn't buy it because they think German/Japanese/French/Spanish suppliers are better.

And you wouldn't have any chance to veto changes to new regulations.

I think this is called "cutting off your nose to spite your face".
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Have to disagree with you there. In numerous areas our legislation has to follow common EU law.

Not saying whether that's a good thing or a bad thing, simply that it's the case.

In some cases, yes, but in most not.
 
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najaB

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No, I merely asked a question regarding them. I did not stipulate a personal preference for any change of regulation. I asked the opinion of forum members.
Apologies then - I took "could we see more" as an expression of desire.
 
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