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Brexit matters

AlterEgo

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That is not necessary so. Two of my friends were denied entry to the UK and had to return to Mexico. Since the next available flight wasn't for three days they had to surrender their passports and were allowed to leave the airport on the condition that they didn't leave the Strathclyde area and reported to the police station every morning and evening.
To be honest, I can’t think of many places where you’d be denied entry to a country but then also allowed to enter under conditions like that.

Apparently it's not just people travelling for interviews getting caught up in this.

In that article it shows that the principal reason someone was visiting their family, which is illegal, and their manufactured excuse was that they’d be working (but oops - you’re not allowed to work here without a visa!). Hard to have sympathy with people who are being denied entry when they are trying it on.

The conduct of Border Force and the hostile policy is quite another thing, because I’ve been on the end of that myself trying to get into my OWN country. I can’t defend Border Force, and won’t.

But I don’t think I’ll be shedding tears over the Italian woman who thought the rules didn’t apply to her. If the reverse had happened and it was an Englishman going to Italy during a pandemic on spurious grounds, with the nonsense excuse they’d be “au pairing” their own family (oh please!), and got detained and deported, none of us would take issue.
 
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najaB

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To be honest, I can’t think of many places where you’d be denied entry to a country but then also allowed to enter under conditions like that.
It makes much more sense than holding them at cost to the taxpayer where the risk of absconding is low.

In that article it shows that the principal reason someone was visiting their family, which is illegal, and their manufactured excuse was that they’d be working (but oops - you’re not allowed to work here without a visa!). Hard to have sympathy with people who are being denied entry when they are trying it on.
I have no problem with her being denied entry, but there was zero need to detain her at cost to the taxpayer.
 

najaB

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Now the Home Office are just trying to be as obtuse as possible. They've granted settled status to all the members of a family - except their 10 year old daughter.

This is apparently because she couldn't prove that she was in the UK, though it remains to be seen what proof they expected her to show.

 

REVUpminster

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Now the Home Office are just trying to be as obtuse as possible. They've granted settled status to all the members of a family - except their 10 year old daughter.

This is apparently because she couldn't prove that she was in the UK, though it remains to be seen what proof they expected her to show.

Lest we forget the civil service is very pro EU so are well versed in being obtuse. Going on a jolly to the EU was a perk they miss.
 

najaB

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Lest we forget the civil service is very pro EU so are well versed in being obtuse. Going on a jolly to the EU was a perk they miss.
No idea at all what you're on about. Very few operational people in the civil service will ever have 'gone on a jolly' to anywhere more exciting than Milton Keynes and if they were 'pro-EU' then surely they would be granting settled status left and right, rather than potentially splitting up families. :rolleyes:

How about you discuss the actual issue at hand, rather than trying to distract from it by spouting random non-sequiturs?
 

alex397

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Lest we forget the civil service is very pro EU so are well versed in being obtuse. Going on a jolly to the EU was a perk they miss.
Your comment makes absolutely no sense. Why would a ‘pro-EU’ civil service deny a 10-year old settled status but give it to the rest of her family?
 

Ianno87

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Lest we forget the civil service is very pro EU so are well versed in being obtuse. Going on a jolly to the EU was a perk they miss.

What you mean is that the civil service deal with facts and evidence, which generally suggest that being in the EU has/had far more advantages than disadvantages to the wealth and prosperity of the country.
 

REVUpminster

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What you mean is that the civil service deal with facts and evidence, which generally suggest that being in the EU has/had far more advantages than disadvantages to the wealth and prosperity of the country.
Well that's a wide ranging interpretation of what I said. Sounds more like your opinion.
 

REVUpminster

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As the link did not allow the story to be read unless a subscriber, I looked elsewhere and it is not as clear cut as the original poster implied.

EU nationals who can prove they have been in the UK for a continuous five-year period are eligible for settled status, while those who have been in the UK for a shorter period of time are eligible for pre-settled status, for which they only need to prove that they were in the UK prior to 31 December 2020.

Mark Bajraktari, and his wife, Leonora, moved to Britain in December – a move that had been postponed because of the pandemic. They both applied under the settlement scheme and were granted pre-settled status.

In order to meet the criterion for pre-settled status, the two children visited the UK for five days in December. They both applied under the scheme in March 2021.

However, while Erik has a bank card and was able to present a bank statement showing that he had bought items in Britain, Sara had only a flight boarding pass as evidence – which the Home Office did not accept as evidence that she was in the country.

Christopher Desira, director of law firm Seraphus, is assisting the family and said the Home Office was informally reviewing the decision.

He said the case indicated “either poor decision-making or a poorly understood application”, adding: “The child should have been granted pre-settled status based on the evidence submitted (airline ticket) to demonstrate the child was resident in the UK before 31 December 2020.

“I suspect it will get overturned by the Home Office EU settlement team […] They tend to be pretty helpful when reviewing decisions which appear on the face of it to be wrong.
 

najaB

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As the link did not allow the story to be read unless a subscriber, I looked elsewhere and it is not as clear cut as the original poster implied
The Independent doesn't require subscription so I don't know why you weren't able to read the story.

And how, exactly, is it not "as simple as implied"?
 

GusB

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As the link did not allow the story to be read unless a subscriber, I looked elsewhere and it is not as clear cut as the original poster implied.
I don't have an Independent subscription and I had no issues when I viewed the page. You may have looked elsewhere for information, but you haven't made any effort to tell us where, nor indicated which parts of your post are your own and which have been quoted from the source.

I presume this is the quoted bit:
EU nationals who can prove they have been in the UK for a continuous five-year period are eligible for settled status, while those who have been in the UK for a shorter period of time are eligible for pre-settled status, for which they only need to prove that they were in the UK prior to 31 December 2020.

Mark Bajraktari, and his wife, Leonora, moved to Britain in December – a move that had been postponed because of the pandemic. They both applied under the settlement scheme and were granted pre-settled status.

In order to meet the criterion for pre-settled status, the two children visited the UK for five days in December. They both applied under the scheme in March 2021.

However, while Erik has a bank card and was able to present a bank statement showing that he had bought items in Britain, Sara had only a flight boarding pass as evidence – which the Home Office did not accept as evidence that she was in the country.

Christopher Desira, director of law firm Seraphus, is assisting the family and said the Home Office was informally reviewing the decision.

He said the case indicated “either poor decision-making or a poorly understood application”, adding: “The child should have been granted pre-settled status based on the evidence submitted (airline ticket) to demonstrate the child was resident in the UK before 31 December 2020.

“I suspect it will get overturned by the Home Office EU settlement team […] They tend to be pretty helpful when reviewing decisions which appear on the face of it to be wrong.

The Independent doesn't require subscription so I don't know why you weren't able to read the story.
That'll be the special Brexiteer fact-filter which is blocking information that they don't want to read or hear :)
 

brad465

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As I'm sure many have already seen somewhere, Tim Martin has really broken the irony meter with his apparent suggestions we need more EU migration to staff his pubs, originally reported in the Telegraph of all places but now on the BBC:


The boss of Wetherspoons has denied claims his pubs are facing a staff shortage caused by Brexit.
It comes after Tim Martin was quoted by the Daily Telegraph as saying he favoured a more "liberal" visa scheme for EU workers to tackle shortfalls.
Mr Martin, a vocal Brexit supporter, told the BBC he had always favoured an Australian style system which treated near neighbours preferentially.
There was "no recruitment issue" other than in small coastal towns, he added.
Many hospitality businesses have struggled during the pandemic despite extensive government support, and firms are reportedly now struggling to recruit as they reopen.
According to trade group UK Hospitality, Brexit has added to the problem, as more EU workers return to their home countries.
According to the Telegraph, Mr Martin said a more flexible visa system for EU workers could help ease the pressure on firms.
"The UK has a low birth rate. A reasonably liberal immigration system controlled by those we have elected, as distinct from the EU system, would be a plus for the economy and the country," he told the paper.
"America, Australia and Singapore have benefited for many decades from this approach. Immigration combined with democracy works."
However, Mr Martin later told the BBC the comment has been taken out of context.
He added that Wetherspoons was not struggling to recruit, and in some towns, such as Northallerton, jobs at its pubs were oversubscribed.
 

alex397

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School trips to UK from EU could halve as Brexit hits cultural exchanges​


https://www.theguardian.com/educati...eu-could-halve-brexit-hits-cultural-exchanges

Most interesting quote to me from below is "The British government has rejected requests from organisers to exempt children taking part in short organised educational trips from new passport and visa measures due to come into effect on 1 October, saying they are needed to strengthen Britain’s borders”

French and German educational trip organisers bringing as many as 750,000 school pupils to the UK every year have warned that tougher post-Brexit entry requirements are likely to cut the number of young Europeans visiting Britain by half.
“We’ve already seen a big fall-off in interest,” said Edward Hisbergues, the sales manager of a leading French operator, PG Trips. “My business was 90% UK, 10% Ireland; now it’s all about Ireland. Schools are inquiring about visits to the Netherlands or Malta.”
The British government has rejected requests from organisers to exempt children taking part in short organised educational trips from new passport and visa measures due to come into effect on 1 October, saying they are needed to strengthen Britain’s borders.
The organisers said many thousands of UK host families, language schools, hotels and other businesses around the country, and especially in cities such as Canterbury that specialise in the educational market, risked suffering a significant economic impact.
They also said the new border restrictionscould inflict broader and longer-term damage to Britain’s relations with Europe.
School trips “foster intercultural understanding and reduce prejudice”, wrote the German federation of leading school trip organisers, whose members run 7,000 trips a year to the UK representing more than 1.5m overnight stays.
“They forge lifelong connections with the UK, increase tolerance for people, cultures and different ways of living and thinking, and help the acquisition of language skills in the internationally most important language.”
Hisbergues said school trips abroad “really open eyes. They can inspire kids and change the course of young lives.”
Ingo Dobbert, the deputy chair of the German federation, said German children risk “being excluded from the valuable experience their predecessors had of travelling to and living in the UK”.
The French and German organisers said the UK government’s decision to no longer accept EU national ID cards for entry into Britain from 1 October would deter less well-off families, since the cost of a passport could increase a trip’s price by 10% to 20% per child, depending on age.
They are particularly concerned about the abolition of collective passports – the “list of travellers” scheme that allowed non-EU students, usually from immigrant families, to travel as part of an organised group without needing a UK visa.
Schools in France, Germany, Spain, Italy and other EU countries often allow trips only if every pupil in the class can take part, meaning groups with even one non-EU pupil will “no longer consider Britain as a viable option” because of the cost and administrative hassle of securing a UK visa, the organisers said.
Between 5% and 10% of German children on school trips to the UK would need to apply for a visa costing £95 under the new rules, the companies said, while half of French trips would be at risk for the same reason.
In letters sent to Boris Johnson and the Home Office, the organisers noted that school trips generate much-needed income for many UK host families, as well as for museums, theatres and attractions such as Stonehenge, the London Eye and the Brighton Pavilion, usually outside the busy holiday season.
“In many British towns, student visitors are a vital part of the local economy,” the German federation wrote. France’s 10,000 school trips a year represent a direct annual input into the UK economy of £100m, French organisers said. Dobbert said he felt the British government was “not thinking of the long-term impact of this”.
Susan Jones of LinguaStay, a UK homestay accommodation provider, said her firm welcomed 10,000 continental schoolchildren a year into Chester, with 300 regular host families and six employees.
“So many people, with so much to lose,” she said. “The short-stay educational travel market will die. And these are schoolchildren, travelling with their teachers – not a security threat.”
Both the French and German organisers asked the government to consider allowing under-18s travelling as part of organised trips lasting less than two weeks to enter the UK with ID cards, and urged it to maintain the “list of travellers” for school groups.
The minister for future borders and immigration, Kevin Foster, has rejected their requests, saying in replies to multiple individuals and organisations that the government was “committed to strengthening the security of our border”.
From 1 October, most European Economic Area nationals “will require a passport like everyone else”, Foster said, adding that the “list of travellers” scheme would end on the same date and “all pupils, no matter their nationality, will need a passport – and visa if required – to visit the UK on an organised school trip”.
Continuing the scheme would run counter to plans for a “position where everyone obtains an individual permission in advance of travel from the Home Office”, he said, with those permissions used to “keep those who may pose a threat away from our border and facilitate the passage of legitimate travellers”.
Foster added that the government had “provided almost a year’s notice for these changes to allow people to plan ahead and obtain a passport, and visa if they need to, before they travel”.
Dobbert said his federation had “the strong impression” that the British government “has very little understanding of the problems we’ll have equipping children with passports and organising visas for non-German citizens”.
He said the new measures would “cause the costs of a journey to the UK to explode, and have a considerable influence on our decision to travel to the UK. It will force us to choose alternative English-speaking countries”
This article got my interest, as Canterbury is mentioned. A city (although the size of a large town) well known for becoming very busy with foreign tourists, largely school groups, in the summers. The coach park was often overflowing with mostly foreign registered coaches (I often saw this myself). I do worry about the local economy around here, and how Covid and Brexit is going to affect it in relation to foreign visitors. There are already large amounts of empty shops for example.
 
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Xenophon PCDGS

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School trips to UK from EU could halve as Brexit hits cultural exchanges​


https://www.theguardian.com/educati...eu-could-halve-brexit-hits-cultural-exchanges

Most interesting quote to me from below is "The British government has rejected requests from organisers to exempt children taking part in short organised educational trips from new passport and visa measures due to come into effect on 1 October, saying they are needed to strengthen Britain’s borders”
Of course, the same Government "need to strengthen Britain's borders" comment above will not seem to take on a same significance, when it comes to those working with people smugglers to try to enter Britain from a EC country by unsuitable marine craft methods.
 

GusB

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Of course, the same Government "need to strengthen Britain's borders" comment above will not seem to take on a same significance, when it comes to those working with people smugglers to try to enter Britain from a EC country by unsuitable marine craft methods.
Eh? There's a massive difference between kids coming from abroad on an organised school trip and those trying to reach our shores by "unsuitable marine craft methods". Tightened restrictions on the former will simply result in those trips going elsewhere in Europe. It will have very little effect on the latter, which has been going on for years and will continue to do so regardless of tighter restrictions.
 

Bald Rick

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As I'm sure many have already seen somewhere, Tim Martin has really broken the irony meter with his apparent suggestions we need more EU migration to staff his pubs, originally reported in the Telegraph of all places but now on the BBC:


I shall do my very best to support him at this difficult time by continuing not to drink in his pubs.
 

alex397

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I shall do my very best to support him at this difficult time by continuing not to drink in his pubs.
I haven’t been in one of his establishments since 2019 and don’t plan to return anytime soon. I’ve discovered lots of great independent pubs, who also have reasonably priced food as well as staff who arn’t grumpy and over-worked, and importantly don’t have political propaganda in put in customer’s faces.
 

Bald Rick

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I haven’t been in one of his establishments since 2019 and don’t plan to return anytime soon. I’ve discovered lots of great independent pubs, who also have reasonably priced food as well as staff who arn’t grumpy and over-worked, and importantly don’t have political propaganda in put in customer’s faces.

Same. I’ve been to his pubs twice in 5 years, and on both occasions left a quantity of liquid there without consuming any. I don’t like to wish ill of people but I do hope they go bust. Very unlikely I think, unfortunately.
 

jon0844

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Why? Whetherspoons is very popular with young people because of the price.

I think it's naive for me to think I'd never ever set foot inside a Wetherspoons again, as if friends were going there and invited me I wouldn't miss out just to take a stand. But what I can do, and have done since before the pandemic, is not go there by choice. I won't recommend going when out with others, and will even try and steer people towards somewhere else if someone dares suggest it! Again, if I lose the vote, I'll suffer it.

The food is edible, and in London it can be an affordable place to eat (even if the food isn't stunning) as an alternative to a McDonald's, Subway etc. I think the breakfasts are usually quite good, and you can't usually go wrong with a burger and chips, but the rest of the menu can be hit and miss based on who's working there - or not.

My local Spoons had staff who stood gossiping when the food was mounting up ready to take to the table, and I'm surprised they had the kitchen located where so many tables were that allowed punters to see their food going cold (or more likely drying out under the hot lamps).

Sunday mornings for breakfast became a no-go because so many staff didn't turn up after their own nights out, calling in sick, which meant they were often short staffed and struggled to cope. If they had issues with staffing before the pandemic and Brexit, God help them now.

It's worth noting much of the above is anecdotal based on one particular Spoons I often visited - but I am sure it isn't totally unique.

I'd expect the issue now is that most people have left Wetherspoons, certainly those able to get another job likely will, so the ones left will perhaps be those who can't easily get a job elsewhere. Again, this is a generalisation but I think it's fair to say that many businesses usually lose the good people first.
 

Annetts key

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“Britain's borders”, ahh, you mean the illusion that we have effective border control. Sorry, but whatever this island country has been called, and whoever has been in power or in charge (or think they are in power/in charge), we have NEVER had an effective border control. Not even during WWII.

So this idea that we can keep out unwanted people is just a pipe dream. Especially as this government (just like most previous administrations) don’t want to properly fund the organisation responsible for ‘controlling’ our ‘borders’. Unless I missed the headline that said that government workers are getting an above inflation pay rise along with lots of new jobs...

Typical con-servative policy. Say one thing to get elected, tinker around the edges once in power and then ignore it and hope that no one actually notices how much of a disaster it is.

As a country we would be better off having a reasonable immigration system, one where there are no big hoops to jump through, no stupid minimum requirements. Just encourage people to register. That would eliminate 99.9% of the trips in dodgy boats where good people put their lives at risk.
 

WelshBluebird

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I'd expect the issue now is that most people have left Wetherspoons, certainly those able to get another job likely will, so the ones left will perhaps be those who can't easily get a job elsewhere. Again, this is a generalisation but I think it's fair to say that many businesses usually lose the good people first.
That isn't really the whole story though. Its actually something that comes up quite often especially in hospitality - you stay not because of the job, or your ability to get another job, but because you don't want to leave your colleagues and friends in the s**t basically. And don't you bet the industry love to abuse that.
 

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