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Brexit matters

21C101

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Possibly lied, or possibly just didn't understand how the Customs Union or Single Market worked
Gleefully refusing a consignment of fish because of a missing full stop in forty pages of forms, because the consignment has a UK not GB sticker and similar actions which are now coming to light is not red tape it is deliberate economic sabotage and shows how right we were to get out.

That is the sort of thing that went on at the Iron curtain inner German border, then people wonder why the EU gets dubbed as the EUSSR.

It will be disruptive to move from routes like Dover - Calais to Harwich - Hook of Holland to avoid France or airfreight direct to Italy, and to diversify exports to places outside the EU but so be it.

Our ports will gain a huge amount of business as exports to rest of world go directnvia British ports instead of via Rotterdam/Hamburg.
 
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Typhoon

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Gleefully refusing a consignment of fish because of a missing full stop in forty pages of forms, because the consignment has a UK not GB sticker and similar actions which are now coming to light is not red tape it is deliberate economic sabotage and shows how right we were to get out.

That is the sort of thing that went on at the Iron curtain inner German border, then people wonder why the EU gets dubbed as the EUSSR.
Do you have a source for that please?
(I've tried searching and cannot find the story - I gave up when I found something about 'Red Dwarf' but it could be later)
 

21C101

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DerekC

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Here you go.

Oh, it's the Mail.
Gleefully refusing a consignment of fish because of a missing full stop in forty pages of forms, because the consignment has a UK not GB sticker and similar actions which are now coming to light is not red tape it is deliberate economic sabotage and shows how right we were to get out.

That is the sort of thing that went on at the Iron curtain inner German border, then people wonder why the EU gets dubbed as the EUSSR.

It will be disruptive to move from routes like Dover - Calais to Harwich - Hook of Holland to avoid France or airfreight direct to Italy, and to diversify exports to places outside the EU but so be it.

Our ports will gain a huge amount of business as exports to rest of world go directnvia British ports instead of via Rotterdam/Hamburg.
Comfort yourself with those thoughts if it helps. I am afraid reality will catch up.
 

Typhoon

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The relevant quote is:
This week, industry insiders gave me examples of the disgraceful delaying tactics.

Lorry-loads of our fish are being confined for many hours simply because a full stop has been misplaced when filling in the morass of newly essential importation documents — which can number up to 40 A4 pages per delivery.

That is hearsay! If this has happened to lorry drivers, they need to come forward so HMG can raise this with the relevant authorities with the aim of having these customs officers removed. Any documented evidence should then be used to demonstrate to EU officials what is happening on their borders. Stories in a British newspaper are not going to stop this happening. If the lorry drivers don't want to go to government officials directly. they should approach their MP with the evidence; there are enough that would happily bring it up in a suitable forum - but it would need to be supported with clear evidence.

I have some sympathy over 'GB' rather than 'UK'; it was our decision to have Northern Ireland treated differently to the mainland so there needs to be some way of distinguishing goods from there and those from England, Scotland and Wales (ie Great Britain). There should be no 'UK' stickers and it was up to HMG to make that absolutely clear. There have been stacks of adverts telling us to prepare, some could have been given over to re-enforcing this.
 

SHD

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When in doubt, blame the French!

To substantiate a claim of “economic sabotage”, one would need to demonstrate that UK exports are treated mote severely at EU points of entry than exports from other third countries.
 

dosxuk

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Our ports will gain a huge amount of business as exports to rest of world go directnvia British ports instead of via Rotterdam/Hamburg.

Wouldn't they be the ports that are currently a complete mess and shipping companies are charging hefty supplemental fees to dock there? There are reports of thousands of pounds being added to the delivery cost of a shipping container if you want it delivered to the UK vs the main EU ports.

Brexit has been the biggest imposition of red tape on UK businesses in 50 years.

Absolutely nobody is taking about us leaving the single market, so there's no need to increase the amount of red tape with our main trade partner. It's just project fear to suggest otherwise!
 

XAM2175

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That is the sort of thing that went on at the Iron curtain inner German border, then people wonder why the EU gets dubbed as the EUSSR.
Three years ago a UK Border Force officer at Heathrow angrily stopped me and made me complete another landing card because I hadn't written my perfectly-valid Scottish home address in the "English format" I was meant to use. At least these French officers are applying rules that actually exist.
 

21C101

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Three years ago a UK Border Force officer at Heathrow angrily stopped me and made me complete another landing card because I hadn't written my perfectly-valid Scottish home address in the "English format" I was meant to use. At least these French officers are applying rules that actually exist.
I'm curious, what do you mean by the English format and how had you written your address?
 

XAM2175

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I'm curious, what do you mean by the English format and how had you written your address?
I'd written "0/1 5 Example St", which is floor number/flat number on that floor, then the building number. He ultimately accepted "Flat 1, Ground Floor, 5 Example St" without ever explaining the specifics of the "English format".

The whole experience was made that little bit more special by the fact that I was entering on a UK Residence Permit, so my current address was already registered with the Home Office (and in the original format too, picked straight from the Postcode Address File listing).
 

21C101

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I'd written "0/1 5 Example St", which is floor number/flat number on that floor, then the building number. He ultimately accepted "Flat 1, Ground Floor, 5 Example St" without ever explaining the specifics of the "English format".

The whole experience was made that little bit more special by the fact that I was entering on a UK Residence Permit, so my current address was already registered with the Home Office (and in the original format too, picked straight from the Postcode Address File listing).
To be fair that format would confuse me. Never come across that way of numbering before. Normally it is just "Flat X, 222 Example Street.
 

davetheguard

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Leaving the Customs Union required us to hire an additional 50,000 HMRC staff, and that's before we vary our standards!

That's a really quite incredible figure; 50 THOUSAND extra - I'm shocked. Do you have a source for it?

If that's correct it really ought to be used as a stick to beat this government with - a complete & utter waste of money.
 

davetheguard

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Would Michael Gove do?


Thanks for that. I'm not quite sure who these 50,000 people are actually being employed by: the article talks of most of them being "intermediaries" whatever that means.

However, whoever is going to be paying them it will be incredibly expensive, and will either be costing the taxpayer; or else damage the competitive edge of British industry when it tries to sell abroad. I suspect that a lot of small firms may simply give up on the idea of exporting, it is just being made too difficult and too expensive.

When it comes to this government, the lunatics really have taken over the asylum.
 
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najaB

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Thanks for that. I'm not quite sure who these 50,000 people are actually being employed by: the article talks of most of them being "intermediaries" whatever that means.
The vast majority will be HMRC customs agents, Gove is on record as saying tens of thousands. In any case, it doesn't really matter if they're civil servants or working in industry, it represents a huge increase in paperwork and people to fill that paperwork in.
 

Dave1987

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Gleefully refusing a consignment of fish because of a missing full stop in forty pages of forms, because the consignment has a UK not GB sticker and similar actions which are now coming to light is not red tape it is deliberate economic sabotage and shows how right we were to get out.

That is the sort of thing that went on at the Iron curtain inner German border, then people wonder why the EU gets dubbed as the EUSSR.

It will be disruptive to move from routes like Dover - Calais to Harwich - Hook of Holland to avoid France or airfreight direct to Italy, and to diversify exports to places outside the EU but so be it.

Our ports will gain a huge amount of business as exports to rest of world go directnvia British ports instead of via Rotterdam/Hamburg.
Are these the “freeports” that act exist within the EU already? The “freeports“ that BoJo is adamant he wants that are a magnet to corruption and money laundering?
 

bspahh

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This from a wine importer

Now bearing in mind pre-Brexit I paid nothing on EU customs declarations and now that bill is over £150 per consignment, this cost is going to be passed on. But secondly the shortage of trucks willing to make the journey is also putting huge pressure on the supply chain.
I now hope, if the wind is blowing in the right direction, to start seeing stock from early February. My orders with producers were placed as far back as December. So from what was a 7-10 days turn around has become a 5-6 week turn around.
[snip]
All the way along this trip in past few weeks HMRC, the logistics companies and various call centres have all been doing their best. I don’t lay the blame at any of these people or organisations door, for what is an almighty cluster****. All of these people interestingly all say the same thing. We were not given the time required to adjust to the deal agreed on the 24th December, and to put the systems in place to avoid the chaos that is now unfolding.
This is the full thread on twitter
 

Beemax

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Wouldn't they be the ports that are currently a complete mess and shipping companies are charging hefty supplemental fees to dock there? There are reports of thousands of pounds being added to the delivery cost of a shipping container if you want it delivered to the UK vs the main EU ports.



Absolutely nobody is taking about us leaving the single market, so there's no need to increase the amount of red tape with our main trade partner. It's just project fear to suggest otherwise!
We have left the single market. We still have access to it, but we are not part of it.
 

DerekC

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We have left the single market. We still have access to it, but we are not part of it.
What has become clear is that the deal gives us tariff-free access to the single market, but trade across the border between GB and EU (including the border between GB and NI) is very far from being frictionless or cost-free. The implications of this will take years to work through, but it's pretty clear already that they will be strongly negative. What I am looking for is the good news stories - practical examples of the benefits of Brexit in terms of global trade that were promised as soon as we were free of the shackles of the EU. I am not just being sarcastic - I really would like to see some, since Brexit is now a reality that we have to live with. But they have to be real, not just hot air!
 

Journeyman

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What has become clear is that the deal gives us tariff-free access to the single market, but trade across the border between GB and EU (including the border between GB and NI) is very far from being frictionless or cost-free. The implications of this will take years to work through, but it's pretty clear already that they will be strongly negative. What I am looking for is the good news stories - practical examples of the benefits of Brexit in terms of global trade that were promised as soon as we were free of the shackles of the EU. I am not just being sarcastic - I really would like to see some, since Brexit is now a reality that we have to live with. But they have to be real, not just hot air!
I think we're about to discover that all these amazing global trade deals are going to take decades to materialise, and in the meantime we've stuck a huge number of expensive obstacles in the way of doing business with the largest free trade bloc in the world. One we largely designed ourselves.

Insane doesn't even begin to cover it.
 

class ep-09

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Gleefully refusing a consignment of fish because of a missing full stop in forty pages of forms, because the consignment has a UK not GB sticker and similar actions which are now coming to light is not red tape it is deliberate economic sabotage and shows how right we were to get out.

That is the sort of thing that went on at the Iron curtain inner German border, then people wonder why the EU gets dubbed as the EUSSR.

It will be disruptive to move from routes like Dover - Calais to Harwich - Hook of Holland to avoid France or airfreight direct to Italy, and to diversify exports to places outside the EU but so be it.

Our ports will gain a huge amount of business as exports to rest of world go directnvia British ports instead of via Rotterdam/Hamburg.


Lol.

Which UK port has the capacity of Rotterdam or Hamburg ?

What stuff did you smoke, I want some.
 

edwin_m

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When in doubt, blame the French!

To substantiate a claim of “economic sabotage”, one would need to demonstrate that UK exports are treated mote severely at EU points of entry than exports from other third countries.
Welcome back to the world of "non-tariff barriers", something the French were past masters of before the single market and customs union. After we joined those, we had recourse to recompense via routes up to and including the European Court of Justice. Now...

What Boris Johnson's mistake tells us about our future - BBC News
But his manifest error in declaring there are "no non-tariff barriers" for trade with the EU had business leaders falling off their chairs.
This is patently not the case. The government has entire websites informing the public and businesses of tens of millions of new customs declarations, export health checks, regulatory checks, rules of origin checks, conformity assessments.
Liars gotta lie.
 

RichT54

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It's got to the state that exporters are now being advised by Department for International Trade officials to form EU-based companies to circumvent border issues.

British businesses that export to the continent are being encouraged by government trade advisers to set up separate companies inside the EU in order to get around extra charges, paperwork and taxes resulting from Brexit, the Observer can reveal.

In an extraordinary twist to the Brexit saga, UK small businesses are being told by advisers working for the Department for International Trade (DIT) that the best way to circumvent border issues and VAT problems that have been piling up since 1 January is to register new firms within the EU single market, from where they can distribute their goods far more freely.

The heads of two UK businesses that have been beset by Brexit-related problems have told the Observer that, following advice from experts at the Department for International Trade, they have already decided to register new companies in the EU in the next few weeks, and they knew of many others in similar positions. Other companies have also said they too were advised by government officials to register operations in the EU but had not yet made decisions.

Andrew Moss, who runs Horizon Retail Marketing Solutions, based in Ely, Cambridgeshire, and selling packaging and point-of-sale marketing displays in the UK and to EU customers, is registering a European company Horizon Europe in the Netherlands in the next few weeks, on the advice of a senior government adviser.

 

najaB

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Welcome back to the world of "non-tariff barriers", something the French were past masters of before the single market and customs union. After we joined those, we had recourse to recompense via routes up to and including the European Court of Justice. Now...
Even if everyone is playing the bat straight, tariff-free and frictionless are not synonymous where trade is concerned. I wonder if Boris has figured that out yet?
 

Revilo

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Are these the “freeports” that act exist within the EU already? The “freeports“ that BoJo is adamant he wants that are a magnet to corruption and money laundering?

No, the ones in the EU are different, they are subject to EU state aid rules. If they are a magnet for corruption etc why would so many other countries have them.
 

Dave1987

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No, the ones in the EU are different, they are subject to EU state aid rules. If they are a magnet for corruption etc why would so many other countries have them.
"Around the world, freeports present a major money laundering risk due to the secrecy and security they offer"

From "Submission by Transparency International UK to the Department for International Trade, 13 July 2020"

 

jon0844

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It's got to the state that exporters are now being advised by Department for International Trade officials to form EU-based companies to circumvent border issues.




Small firms won't be able to do that. Nor will they be able to, as has been suggested, set up on behalf of EU countries to do the same in reverse.

You know who can do all this? Big companies.

So, another knife in the back of small businesses and a big benefit to corporations. Amazon will have no issues with the paperwork and collecting payments, and are constantly building their own shipping network around the world. There might be some delays, but for the most part they'll get through and can absorb some of the cost initially. These issues won't put them out of business and all costs can be passed on anyway.

Of course the smaller businesses can always ask Amazon to do the factoring for them, and any products that do well I am sure they'll be more than happy to sell direct and cut them out of the loop.

Weren't the Tories for a nation of shopkeepers at one time? Seems these people are right back to only selling to local people, as they've had their aspirations of trading abroad (mostly to Europe as it's where we are) cut short.
 

dosxuk

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We have left the single market. We still have access to it, but we are not part of it.
That's the point, the same people who were telling us there was no risk to our membership of the single market were the same people saying that leaving the EU would result in a bonfire of red tape making businesses lives simpler.

Both were complete lies.

The reality of both options was decried as project fear and dismissed out of hand by the proponents of this plan.
 

ainsworth74

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