Brexit matters

[jon0844]

O2 have introduced a cap of 25GB.
3 have introduced a reduced cap of 12GB (from 20GB) but more countries (£76)
EE are charging £2 a day for roaming (or a one off £10 bolt on valid for 30 days roaming)

I personally don't think £10 for a month of roaming in the EU on EE is all that bad. Certainly not great, but £10 is hardly going to break the bank when for most people it's an absolute tiny proportion of the other costs associated with going overseas. As usual with these things, there will no doubt be offers and promotions throughout the year that some packages get the free roaming back etc. Market forces will level all this out. Most EE smart plan packages already let you choose 1 or 2 free extra benefits like better roaming already, along with BT Sport and Amazon Prime Video etc.

Only one plan now offers 3 benefits. All the others now offer just one. Roaming outside the EU is one package I get, which normally costs £10/m. I suppose we might get the EU roaming as another benefit to choose from (or maybe it will be the same thing), which if you only have one benefit means giving up BT Sport or whatever. No matter, you can just pay extra for more than one...

Meanwhile, Vodafone now only offers roaming in 81 countries on its most expensive plan (Unlimited Max)... and the older plans will be phased out in due course.

 

[AlterEgo]

The EU launched its very expensive space programme yesterday, an interesting decision for *checks notes* a “trade bloc” to make.

 

[Tazi Hupefi]

Only one plan now offers 3 benefits. All the others now offer just one. Roaming outside the EU is one package I get, which normally costs £10/m. I suppose we might get the EU roaming as another benefit to choose from (or maybe it will be the same thing), which if you only have one benefit means giving up BT Sport or whatever. No matter, you can just pay extra for more than one...

Meanwhile, Vodafone now only offers roaming in 81 countries on its most expensive plan (Unlimited Max)... and the older plans will be phased out in due course.

Although I should add that I imagine anyone vaguely aware of how the internet works will have long worked out how easy it is to obtain a 20% discount code for EE plans!

 

[class ep-09]

The EU launched its very expensive space programme yesterday, an interesting decision for *checks notes* a “trade bloc” to make.

Not EU but European Space Agency , which UK is part of.

ESA has not much to do with the EU .

Nice shot but try better next time .

 

[Revilo]

Indeed - we can't leave a club and still expect membership benefits!

It wasn’t a club, it was a prison

 

[AlterEgo]

Not EU but European Space Agency , which UK is still part of .

That’s a premium “well actually”, like saying “well actually the UK did not sail a warship in Crimea, it was the Royal Navy”. I assume the EU Agency for the Space Programme is nothing to do with the EU.

 

[class ep-09]

It wasn’t a club, it was a prison

Prison that allows leaving ???

Lost your mind ?

 

[birchesgreen]

The EU launched its very expensive space programme yesterday, an interesting decision for *checks notes* a “trade bloc” to make.

Why so?

 

[jon0844]

Although I should add that I imagine anyone vaguely aware of how the internet works will have long worked out how easy it is to obtain a 20% discount code for EE plans!

Not for upgrades though, at least officially. FWIW I get 40% but that's only on the plan, not extras you add on. So if they want to charge me £10 a month on top for something I previously had, I will be paying the full £10.

 

[Tazi Hupefi]

Prison that allows leaving ???

Lost your mind ?

"Allows" leaving theoretically, but only after you've defeated the SAS assault course as you head towards the exit.

Not debating the rights or wrongs of Brexit, but the EU position on Brexit was just as badly handled.

 

[Darandio]

Prison that allows leaving ???

Lost your mind ?

Prisons allow people to leave every day after they have served their time. It's not a bad analogy at all.

 

[Tazi Hupefi]

Not for upgrades though, at least officially. FWIW I get 40% but that's only on the plan, not extras you add on. So if they want to charge me £10 a month on top for something I previously had, I will be paying the full £10.

So £10 for 2 weeks (even 4 weeks!) in the sun with as much (fair use) data as you like etc is problematic? Yes, it's not zero, but it's a wholly insignificant amount in the context of an overseas trip.

EU also likely loses out here, as I would imagine any EU network that wants to allow their customers to roam on the EE network in the UK will be facing increased charges too, which will probably be passed on to the EU customer.

Still, I think market forces will sort this one out. It's an ultra competitive sector.

 

[najaB]

I assume the EU Agency for the Space Programme is nothing to do with the EU.

ESA pre-dates the EU. It was founded in 1975 with the UK as one of the founding members. There was talk about absorbing it into the EU a few years back, but nothing came of it.

Switzerland, Norway and the UK are all "owners" despite none of them being EU member states.

The EU Agency for the Space Programme is something completely different to the ESA.

 

[AlterEgo]

ESA pre-dates the EU. It was founded in 1975 with the UK as one of the founding members. There was talk about absorbing it into the EU a few years back, but nothing came of it.

Switzerland, Norway and the UK are all "owners" despite none of them being EU member states.

The Royal Navy predates the United Kingdom; we can all play that game.

 

[alex397]

Prisons allow people to leave every day after they have served their time. It's not a bad analogy at all.

No, it’s pretty bad.

I don’t think prisons have referendums that allow prisoners to have a vote to leave.

The Royal Navy predates the United Kingdom; we can all play that game.

Does the EU have full control over the ESA then? Like the UK government being in control of the Royal Navy.

 

[najaB]

The Royal Navy predates the United Kingdom; we can all play that game.

ESA and EUSPA aren't the same thing.

EUSPA is merely a mechanism by which the EU governments will align their spending on space. If you find it so out of character that the EU is doing this, what do you make of the UK government spending half a billion dollars on the wrong kind of satellites?

Yes, it's not zero, but it's a wholly insignificant amount in the context of an overseas trip.

Yes, to someone who only venture abroad is a two-week holiday, it's not the end of the world. But what about people whose overseas trips are on a regular basis? Or you're a company with loads of staff making those overseas trips on a regular basis? It all adds up. And it was all unnecessary.

 

[Farang]

Brexit should have given the UK the ability to pursue an independent foreign policy, in particular to disengage itself from the EU agenda of poking the Bear. Why did a British destroyer enter Russian territorial waters off the Crimean coast without permission?

Because GB News secretly reversed the flux polarity of the warship's squoggle pin, sending it miles off course in order to provoke an international incident and boost their ratings.

 

[jon0844]

So £10 for 2 weeks (even 4 weeks!) in the sun with as much (fair use) data as you like etc is problematic? Yes, it's not zero, but it's a wholly insignificant amount in the context of an overseas trip.

EU also likely loses out here, as I would imagine any EU network that wants to allow their customers to roam on the EE network in the UK will be facing increased charges too, which will probably be passed on to the EU customer.

Still, I think market forces will sort this one out. It's an ultra competitive sector.

But the UK fought for years to get these charges reduced.. It was a Tory MP from Chelmsford (Vicky Ford MEP) that played a big part in it! We benefitted, so did other EU member states.

Why should anyone be happy to pay £10 to keep what they had? And what is the FUP? Do we know yet? Will it be capped daily or weekly within that?

What about the new fees for using your debit or credit card that most banks will most likely pass on sooner or later, if they haven't already? Is that okay?

I'd have been happier if we were trying to get roaming fees down for the rest of the world rather than undoing what we achieved in the EU.

Finally, yes, because of the wholesale rates EU visitors here will no doubt pay more too. That'll teach them! Maybe it won't matter much to them, or maybe things like this (and other costs and the time to get in to the country through our border control) might just make them stick to visiting another EU state than come here. We don't need them anyway!

Oh, and market forces... hence why three networks have all revealed changes on the same day. Yup, that's free market economics at play. Or is the word more like 'cartel'?

 

[johncrossley]

The workaround for regular travellers will be to have one SIM card for UK use and another one for the EU. Obviously it isn't great, but it is still better than having to have a separate SIM card for each country which was the only cost effective way of using data before EU data capping. Irish SIM cards will probably be the most useful for UK customers given the local language is English.

Are retailers paying more in credit card fees? They were also capped by the EU.

 

[JonasB]

Was the EU's "no data roaming charges" policy a law? If so, why wasn't it taken into British law along with all the other stuff which transferred?

It is a regulation, i.e. a piece of legislation that automatically becomes law in all member state. So since the UK has left, the regulation is no longer law in the UK.

Unlike a directive, which has to be made part of national law.

Regulation (European Union) - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Directive (European Union) - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Annetts key]

Finally, yes, because of the wholesale rates EU visitors here will no doubt pay more too. That'll teach them! Maybe it won't matter much to them, or maybe things like this (and other costs and the time to get in to the country through our border control) might just make them stick to visiting another EU state than come here. We don't need them anyway!

On the subject of EU visitors, what are people’s thoughts on how brexit will affect our tourism industry. Any effects so far have been masked by COVID19, but some parts of our country used to get large numbers of tourists from abroad, including very significant numbers from some EU countries.

If getting here is perceived as too much trouble and they go elsewhere, that will affect the long term local economy in parts of the tourism industry that are affected.

 

[najaB]

On the subject of EU visitors, what are people’s thoughts on how brexit will affect our tourism industry.

I suspect it will depress EU visitor numbers slightly - maybe 10 or 20% - but won't kill it entirely. What it may kill off is the idea of people taking random city-breaks in London/Edinburgh/etc.

 

[Tazi Hupefi]

But the UK fought for years to get these charges reduced.. It was a Tory MP from Chelmsford (Vicky Ford MEP) that played a big part in it! We benefitted, so did other EU member states.

Why should anyone be happy to pay £10 to keep what they had? And what is the FUP? Do we know yet? Will it be capped daily or weekly within that?

What about the new fees for using your debit or credit card that most banks will most likely pass on sooner or later, if they haven't already? Is that okay?

I'd have been happier if we were trying to get roaming fees down for the rest of the world rather than undoing what we achieved in the EU.

Finally, yes, because of the wholesale rates EU visitors here will no doubt pay more too. That'll teach them! Maybe it won't matter much to them, or maybe things like this (and other costs and the time to get in to the country through our border control) might just make them stick to visiting another EU state than come here. We don't need them anyway!

Oh, and market forces... hence why three networks have all revealed changes on the same day. Yup, that's free market economics at play. Or is the word more like 'cartel'?

ESA and EUSPA aren't the same thing.

EUSPA is merely a mechanism by which the EU governments will align their spending on space. If you find it so out of character that the EU is doing this, what do you make of the UK government spending half a billion dollars on the wrong kind of satellites?

Yes, to someone who only venture abroad is a two-week holiday, it's not the end of the world. But what about people whose overseas trips are on a regular basis? Or you're a company with loads of staff making those overseas trips on a regular basis? It all adds up. And it was all unnecessary.

Business users have never been entitled to the free roaming from what I can remember. It was always on commercial terms. I believe the EU regulation applied to consumer tariffs only.

Again, market forces will manage that for businesses. I doubt EE will change the business to business arrangements massively anyway.

It really does come down to £10 once or twice a year with EE. Hardly something to get exercised about. If you don't want to pay it, switch to o2 or 3, or get a cheap local SIM! Or sign up for a 2 year EE contract before January 2022, and you'll not have this problem until 2024, by which point, it's probably gone full circle!

 

[class ep-09]

Business users have never been entitled to the free roaming from what I can remember. It was always on commercial terms. I believe the EU regulation applied to consumer tariffs only.

Again, market forces will manage that for businesses. I doubt EE will change the business to business arrangements massively anyway.

It really does come down to £10 once or twice a year with EE. Hardly something to get exercised about. If you don't want to pay it, switch to o2 or 3, or get a cheap local SIM! Or sign up for a 2 year EE contract before January 2022, and you'll not have this problem until 2024, by which point, it's probably gone full circle!

Why do I need to be happy with new charges , that previously did not exist ?

£10 here , £10 there , £10 somewhere else - all adds up to £100’s .
Recently paid £75 for duty fees for product worth £60 .
How is that not a “big deal “ ?

Prisons allow people to leave every day after they have served their time. It's not a bad analogy at all.

Prisons do not allow to leave at any time, so your analogy is wrong .

Btw - why would the “other prisoners” want to stay inside ?

 

[najaB]

Business users have never been entitled to the free roaming from what I can remember. It was always on commercial terms. I believe the EU regulation applied to consumer tariffs only.

Which is fine when you're on business tariffs, but no so good when you have to reimburse your employees the cost of using their own phones.

 

[jon0844]

Which is fine when you're on business tariffs, but no so good when you have to reimburse your employees the cost of using their own phones.

As far as I am aware the exact same applied to business plans as consumer ones when it came to EU roaming and I expect to all roaming.

For the most part, a tariff is a tariff. The likes of the BBC used to have bespoke tariffs to suit their data requirements (2TB I recall) but now unlimited data is available to all. The other benefit is sharing data over multiple accounts, as well as simply being able to have multiple accounts (consumers are limited to 4 or 5 I think).

 

[gysev]

I suspect it will depress EU visitor numbers slightly - maybe 10 or 20% - but won't kill it entirely. What it may kill off is the idea of people taking random city-breaks in London/Edinburgh/etc.

Indeed. Before Covid, I visited the UK at least two times per year and I always travelled by train. Now I feel the trouble and extra costs involved just are not worth it. There are plenty of other interesting places to visit in Europe where I am not called "a nasty EU" (as I was told in 2019 by a "nice" older gentleman). Unfortunately, I am not the only one who feels that way.

 

[biko]

I suspect it will depress EU visitor numbers slightly - maybe 10 or 20% - but won't kill it entirely. What it may kill off is the idea of people taking random city-breaks in London/Edinburgh/etc.

I think a main reason for people to not travel to the UK is that EU ID cards won’t be accepted anymore from November. Most people I know don’t have a passport and would need one specifically for the UK which is expensive

 

[REVUpminster]

This EE roaming charge applies to 47 European states not just 27 EU states. I was annoyed two years ago when Sky mobile charged roaming on the Isle of Man; not in the UK or EU.

Also the British destroyer in the Black Sea was accompanied by a Dutch frigate. An American destroyer was 100 miles away.

 

[birchesgreen]

I find it amusing that, after years of being told there would only be "upsides" to leaving, now we have a clear downside its being brushed off as only being a few quid. Kind of sums up the whole tedious pantomime Brexit has become.