Bridlington Scarborough service post May 19th

[mike57]

It looks like plans to run a hourly service have been abandoned. At one point the hourly trains were even showing in the NR journey planner, now they are replaced by a timetable which is broadly similar to the current one.

Changes:
First train south in the morning carries on to Sheffield, and is semi fast from Hull. Personally this will be quite useful. During the day a scattering of Sheffield services, just at different times.

Later train south at 21.11 ex Scarborough, pity they couldn't have delayed it by 15 mins to connect with the service from York.

An empty stock move North to form the first train South, why not run this in service, it might not get much use but surely the low line speeds would mean that the stops wouldn't add much time, and any passengers must be a bonus. Current first service North is 7.30 which isn't early enough if you are changing at Seamer to carry on west.

And finally 17.58 departure from Scarborough, incoming service is timed to arrive 17.54 so thats going to be running late on occasions, I suppose in theory you can turn round in 4 minutes but its a bit hard on train crew (comfort breaks...) and it gets quite busy in the summer so then its not going to be acheivable.

Have the hourly service plans been abandoned for good or just put back.

 

[filey donkey]

It looks like plans to run a hourly service have been abandoned. At one point the hourly trains were even showing in the NR journey planner, now they are replaced by a timetable which is broadly similar to the current one.

Changes:
First train south in the morning carries on to Sheffield, and is semi fast from Hull. Personally this will be quite useful. During the day a scattering of Sheffield services, just at different times.

Later train south at 21.11 ex Scarborough, pity they couldn't have delayed it by 15 mins to connect with the service from York.

An empty stock move North to form the first train South, why not run this in service, it might not get much use but surely the low line speeds would mean that the stops wouldn't add much time, and any passengers must be a bonus. Current first service North is 7.30 which isn't early enough if you are changing at Seamer to carry on west.

And finally 17.58 departure from Scarborough, incoming service is timed to arrive 17.54 so thats going to be running late on occasions, I suppose in theory you can turn round in 4 minutes but its a bit hard on train crew (comfort breaks...) and it gets quite busy in the summer so then its not going to be acheivable.

Have the hourly service plans been abandoned for good or just put back.

The timetable changes on the Scarborough to hull line have been made so hull’s northern crew’s can take over scarborough’s Transpennine crew’s work, it will proberly be another twelve months before you see an hourly service even then don’t expect good connection times at seamer.

 

[IanXC]

I would suspect the hourly service has been sacrificed in the "Great Bolton Unit Shortage", so I wouldn't bet against the hourly service reappearing in December's timetable change (assuming there are no further delays to the infrastructure works).

I'm not sure why everyone is so convinced good connection times cannot be achieved at Seamer. This timetable has:

1E23 0825 arrival from Liverpool
1G05 0831 departure for Hull

1G02 0947 arrival from Hull
1F60 0952 departure for Liverpool

1E29 1125 arrival from Liverpool
1G11 1131 departure for Hull

1G08 1247 arrival from Hull
1F66 1252 departure for Liverpool

1E33 1325 arrival from Liverpool
1G15 1331 departure for Hull

1G12 1447 arrival from Hull
1F70 1452 departure for Liverpool

1E39 1625 arrival from Liverpool
1G21 1630 departure for Hull

1G18 1747 arrival from Hull
1F76 1755 departure for Liverpool

1E47 2025 arrival from Liverpool
1G27 2030 departure for Hull

The observant of you will notice that the Northern services providing connections are the remnants of the hourly service and that the Sheffield services generally don't form connections. This makes me think when the full hourly timetable does come about, it will form good connections for the vast majority of the day.

 

[158756]

I would suspect the hourly service has been sacrificed in the "Great Bolton Unit Shortage", so I wouldn't bet against the hourly service reappearing in December's timetable change (assuming there are no further delays to the infrastructure works).

I'm not sure why everyone is so convinced good connection times cannot be achieved at Seamer. This timetable has:

[cut]

The observant of you will notice that the Northern services providing connections are the remnants of the hourly service and that the Sheffield services generally don't form connections. This makes me think when the full hourly timetable does come about, it will form good connections for the vast majority of the day.

Those trains in the May timetable using the single line towards Hull cross at or South of Bridlington. That won't work for a clockface hourly service, so the trains will have to, as they did in the cancelled timetable, cross at or South of Filey.

So, at Seamer

TPE from Liverpool arrives xx25
Northern train departs to Hull xx31 ,making the connection
(Northern trains cross at Filey xx41)
Northern train arrives xx51
TPE departs for Liverpool xx52 , no connection

 

[IanXC]

Those trains in the May timetable using the single line towards Hull cross at or South of Bridlington. That won't work for a clockface hourly service, so the trains will have to, as they did in the cancelled timetable, cross at or South of Filey.

So, at Seamer

TPE from Liverpool arrives xx25
Northern train departs to Hull xx31 ,making the connection
(Northern trains cross at Filey xx41)
Northern train arrives xx51
TPE departs for Liverpool xx52 , no connection

You mean like 1G08 and 1G15 which (in this final May timetable) cross at Filey and make their respective connections?

 

[158756]

Those trains in the May timetable using the single line towards Hull cross at or South of Bridlington. That won't work for a clockface hourly service, so the trains will have to, as they did in the cancelled timetable, cross at Filey.

So, at Seamer

TPE from Liverpool arrives xx25
Northern train departs to Hull xx31 ,making the connection
(Northern trains cross at Filey xx41)
Northern train arrives xx51
TPE departs for Liverpool xx52 , no connection

You mean like 1G08 and 1G15 which (in this final May timetable) cross at Filey and make their respective connections?

The 1GO8 and 1G15 I'm seeing don't cross at all?

 

[IanXC]

The 1GO8 and 1G15 I'm seeing don't cross at all?

Apologies yes I misread the times on that!

The point remains tho, the times at Filey are xx35 and xx41 in order that services can pass at Filey. The service that didn't connect in the original May timetable was the southbound, which was not constrained departing Seamer and Filey later, as the northbound had already cleared the single line.

 

[158756]

Apologies yes I misread the times on that!

The point remains tho, the times at Filey are xx35 and xx41 in order that services can pass at Filey. The service that didn't connect in the original May timetable was the southbound, which was not constrained departing Seamer and Filey later, as the northbound had already cleared the single line.

That would work if it was the southbound train at xx35 and northbound at xx41, but it's the other way round - so if those trains ran in the same hour they'd be on the single line at the same time.

If you shift the southbound train so it connects the northbound won't - 9 mins Seamer to Filey, 10 mins back, allow 2 mins for the crossing = 21 mins, there's a 27 minute gap between the TPE services at Seamer, so unless Seamer has a 3 minute connection time it can't work in both directions.

 

[IanXC]

That would work if it was the southbound train at xx35 and northbound at xx41, but it's the other way round - so if those trains ran in the same hour they'd be on the single line at the same time.

If you shift the southbound train so it connects the northbound won't - 9 mins Seamer to Filey, 10 mins back, allow 2 mins for the crossing = 21 mins, there's a 27 minute gap between the TPE services at Seamer, so unless Seamer has a 3 minute connection time it can't work in both directions.

The currently uploaded times at Filey are for xx36 Northbound, and xx41 Southbound. That means that the northbound clears the single line to arrive in Filey, subsequent to which the southbound can obtain the single line.

 

[158756]

The currently uploaded times at Filey are for xx36 Northbound, and xx41 Southbound. That means that the northbound clears the single line to arrive in Filey, subsequent to which the southbound can obtain the single line.

Surely it's the southbound train that needs to clear the single line though - that northbound train at xx36 can't go anywhere if there's a southbound train due at xx41. It would have to stay at Filey until xx41, by which time it can't reach Seamer in time to make the connection.

 

[IanXC]

Surely it's the southbound train that needs to clear the single line though - that northbound train at xx36 can't go anywhere if there's a southbound train due at xx41. It would have to stay at Filey until xx41, by which time it can't reach Seamer in time to make the connection.

I was thinking of the Bridlington-Hunmanby section, while you were on the Filey-Seamer section...

What ability I did have to understand single line timetabling seems to have up and left. What I do recall tho, is that in the previous version of the timetable the southbound didn't connect at Seamer, but had booked standing time at Bridlington which could have been removed, and which would have worked through this section.

 

[mike57]

I would suspect the hourly service has been sacrificed in the "Great Bolton Unit Shortage", so I wouldn't bet against the hourly service reappearing in December's timetable change (assuming there are no further delays to the infrastructure works).

I'm not sure why everyone is so convinced good connection times cannot be achieved at Seamer. This timetable has:

1E23 0825 arrival from Liverpool
1G05 0831 departure for Hull

1G02 0947 arrival from Hull
1F60 0952 departure for Liverpool

1E29 1125 arrival from Liverpool
1G11 1131 departure for Hull

1G08 1247 arrival from Hull
1F66 1252 departure for Liverpool

1E33 1325 arrival from Liverpool
1G15 1331 departure for Hull

1G12 1447 arrival from Hull
1F70 1452 departure for Liverpool

1E39 1625 arrival from Liverpool
1G21 1630 departure for Hull

1G18 1747 arrival from Hull
1F76 1755 departure for Liverpool

1E47 2025 arrival from Liverpool
1G27 2030 departure for Hull

The observant of you will notice that the Northern services providing connections are the remnants of the hourly service and that the Sheffield services generally don't form connections. This makes me think when the full hourly timetable does come about, it will form good connections for the vast majority of the day.

From my experience the Northern > TPE connections will work well, and the TPE > Northern connections will be a disaster. TPE are regularly 10mins + late by the time they get to Seamer. (This comment after yet another missed connection at Seamer this evening), and with the new TPE timetable I think reliability will be even worse. Over the past 12 months I have had one delay repay from Northern for the Scarborough/Seamer - Bempton and reverse service, and I've lost count of the TPE repays, but must be 30+ over the last year, that using this route about 3-4 times a week.

 

[swissrailpassion]

I think the last train ex SCA at 2111 is a missed opportunity being just 41 minutes after the previous train, particularly when the pattern is normally 90 or 120 minutes. A 2200 or 2230 departure would be better.

 

[Class 170101]

I think the last train ex SCA at 2111 is a missed opportunity being just 41 minutes after the previous train, particularly when the pattern is normally 90 or 120 minutes. A 2200 or 2230 departure would be better.

Is that not driven by the hours that the signalboxes are open? Do they not close overnight?