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Brighton Mainline & Branches Route Knowledge

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Aictos

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Question for those who sign said routes but what depots sign them, this is London Terminals to Brighton plus diversionary routes and branch lines etc

This is for both Southern, Thameslink but also SouthEastern who I think used to run to East Croydon from Charing Cross?
 
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Thameslink:

Three Bridges
Brighton
Horsham
Cambridge
Peterborough
Bedford
Luton
Hornsey (?)

Some TL drivers sign via Lewes only Horsham Peterborough and Three Bridges TL sign to Horsham

Most of the TL drivers above would sign to Blackfriars or London Bridge via Streatham or Crystal Palace. At Tulse Hill these routes merge. London Bridge then diverges via Peckham and Blackfriars via Herne Hill

As Brighton and Three Bridges USED to sign the Sutton loop Sutton to Norwood Junction/Selhurst via West Croydon was a diversion probably still is for St Albans depot and Cricklewood

Think Southeastern sign Redhill to London Bridge

Brighton Victoria Horsham Three Bridges Barnham (link dependant) Redhill Caterham Southern sign part or all of the BML Selhurst Norwood London Bridge too
 
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JonathanH

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Most of the TL drivers above would sign to Blackfriars or London Bridge via Streatham or Crystal Palace.

Do Thameslink still run via Crystal Palace? The overnight trains all run via Streatham now and if that is shut they go via London Bridge without stopping.

It appears that the only empty workings via Crystal Palace are Cricklewood to Sutton empties which doesn't sound like any of the depots who do Brighton Main Line work.

I assume that Thameslink route knowledge via Clapham Junction is being allowed to lapse as well.
 

387star

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Do Thameslink still run via Crystal Palace? The overnight trains all run via Streatham now and if that is shut they go via London Bridge without stopping.

It appears that the only empty workings via Crystal Palace are Cricklewood to Sutton empties which doesn't sound like any of the depots who do Brighton Main Line work.

I assume that Thameslink route knowledge via Clapham Junction is being allowed to lapse as well.
Probably
Only Brighton signed Clapham

Horsham and Peterborough Tl don't sign three bridges to Brighton

* Cambridge and Peterborough drivers are often seen in GREAT NORTHERN uniform at Brighton etc but are driving Thameslink branded trains ... they work GN services as well
 

Aictos

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Horsham and Peterborough Tl don't sign three bridges to Brighton

* Cambridge and Peterborough drivers are often seen in GREAT NORTHERN uniform at Brighton etc but are driving Thameslink branded trains ... they work GN services as well

Can you explain this better please as it's confusing, sorry :(

Also what route did SouthEastern take when the London to Hastings services used to be diverted via East Croydon? Do they still have that as part of their route knowledge?
 

KingJ

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Also what route did SouthEastern take when the London to Hastings services used to be diverted via East Croydon? Do they still have that as part of their route knowledge?

This diversion via Redhill is still used fairly regularly, generally whenever there's engineering work that blocks the line between Orpington and Tonbridge. Here's an example schedule that ran back in August. There's also a regular empty coaching stock move on most days from Tonbridge to London Bridge via Redhill and back again - as seen here.
 
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Southeastern crews still operate a substantial number of Redhill-Tonbridge services for Southern. They also used to operate some of the Reigate/Tonbridge to London Bridge services when they operated in the morning and evening peak. I am guessing the ECS move is what replaced these which is all well and good for Drivers. Not sure how the Conductors refresh/learn their route knowledge north of Redhill now in the case of the Hastings diversions?

The 377s leased to Southeastern from Southern are maintained at Selhurst however I believe these are mainly driven by SE Victoria based drivers IIRC.
 

Surreytraveller

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Can you explain this better please as it's confusing, sorry :(

Also what route did SouthEastern take when the London to Hastings services used to be diverted via East Croydon? Do they still have that as part of their route knowledge?
Which bit is confusing?
Horsham and Peterborough drivers do not sign from Three Bridges to Brighton, as they only work Horsham services.
 

OFFDN

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Thameslink:

Three Bridges
Brighton
Horsham
Cambridge
Peterborough
Bedford
Luton
Hornsey (?)

Some TL drivers sign via Lewes only Horsham Peterborough and Three Bridges TL sign to Horsham

Most of the TL drivers above would sign to Blackfriars or London Bridge via Streatham or Crystal Palace. At Tulse Hill these routes merge. London Bridge then diverges via Peckham and Blackfriars via Herne Hill

As Brighton and Three Bridges USED to sign the Sutton loop Sutton to Norwood Junction/Selhurst via West Croydon was a diversion probably still is for St Albans depot and Cricklewood

Not quite correct.

For Thameslink, drivers that sign Blackfriars to Three Bridges (via Streatham or via London Bridge and Sydenham or via London Bridge and Peckham Rye) are:
Bedford
Brighton
Cambridge (limited)
Horsham
Luton (also sign via Crystal Palace, see below)
Peterborough (limited)
Three Bridges

Those that sign Three Bridges to Brighton:
Bedford
Brighton (only drivers to sign Brighton Down Sidings and Preston Park Sidings)
Cambridge
Three Bridges
Luton

Those that sign Three Bridges to Horsham:
Horsham
Peterborough
Three Bridges

Brighton used to sign via Clapham Junction but since the reopening of London Bridge in 2018 this has no longer been required and so route knowledge has lapsed.

Some of Brighton depot unofficially sign via Lewes, there’s around half a dozen drivers I believe that sign it and insist on maintaining it.

No ‘mainline’ depot sign via Crystal Palace as this is not a mainline route - the two mainline options are Streatham or London Bridge, with a third variation after Tulse Hill to go right via Peckham Rye. Luton do sign via Crystal Palace but they are not a mainline depot. The only booked services via Crystal Palace are indeed the Sutton to Cricklewood Depot ECS moves.
 

Surreytraveller

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Not quite correct.

For Thameslink, drivers that sign Blackfriars to Three Bridges (via Streatham or via London Bridge and Sydenham or via London Bridge and Peckham Rye) are:
Bedford
Brighton
Cambridge (limited)
Horsham
Luton (also sign via Crystal Palace, see below)
Peterborough (limited)
Three Bridges

Those that sign Three Bridges to Brighton:
Bedford
Brighton (only drivers to sign Brighton Down Sidings and Preston Park Sidings)
Cambridge
Three Bridges
Luton

Those that sign Three Bridges to Horsham:
Horsham
Peterborough
Three Bridges

Brighton used to sign via Clapham Junction but since the reopening of London Bridge in 2018 this has no longer been required and so route knowledge has lapsed.

Some of Brighton depot unofficially sign via Lewes, there’s around half a dozen drivers I believe that sign it and insist on maintaining it.

No ‘mainline’ depot sign via Crystal Palace as this is not a mainline route - the two mainline options are Streatham or London Bridge, with a third variation after Tulse Hill to go right via Peckham Rye. Luton do sign via Crystal Palace but they are not a mainline depot. The only booked services via Crystal Palace are indeed the Sutton to Cricklewood Depot ECS moves.
What is meant by a 'mainline depot'?
Also, obviously going via Peckham Rye means you cannot get to London Bridge High Level, the only trains booked that way apart from engineering works are Sunday mornings
 

JonathanH

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What is meant by a 'mainline depot'?

One that works the routes
Bedford to Brighton / Three Bridges
Bedford to East Grinstead / Littlehampton
Cambridge to Brighton
Peterborough to Horsham
defined as mainline routes on the GTR 2018 timetable consultation.

One of the reasons for concentrating the night service on the Thameslink route and not to Victoria in the Gibb report was the ability to use four routes between Blackfriars and East Croydon. Why was the possibility of operation via Crystal Palace lost after May 2018 when this had been the route used solidly for the three years before then?

I note that Cambridge, Peterborough and Horsham drivers might have had to learn an extra route but it seems a bit of loss of flexibility.
 

Surreytraveller

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I think of mainline as anything other than depots - i.e. any route which carries passengers!
Of course, you've only got 4 routes from Blackfriars if you've got Blackfriars. At least you've got a choice of Victoria Eastern or Central!
And there's only two routes from Blackfriars - via London Bridge or via Elephant. Fair enough the route bifurcates after Herne Hill, but its not four routes...
 

387star

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Not quite correct.

For Thameslink, drivers that sign Blackfriars to Three Bridges (via Streatham or via London Bridge and Sydenham or via London Bridge and Peckham Rye) are:
Bedford
Brighton
Cambridge (limited)
Horsham
Luton (also sign via Crystal Palace, see below)
Peterborough (limited)
Three Bridges

Those that sign Three Bridges to Brighton:
Bedford
Brighton (only drivers to sign Brighton Down Sidings and Preston Park Sidings)
Cambridge
Three Bridges
Luton

Those that sign Three Bridges to Horsham:
Horsham
Peterborough
Three Bridges

Brighton used to sign via Clapham Junction but since the reopening of London Bridge in 2018 this has no longer been required and so route knowledge has lapsed.

Some of Brighton depot unofficially sign via Lewes, there’s around half a dozen drivers I believe that sign it and insist on maintaining it.

No ‘mainline’ depot sign via Crystal Palace as this is not a mainline route - the two mainline options are Streatham or London Bridge, with a third variation after Tulse Hill to go right via Peckham Rye. Luton do sign via Crystal Palace but they are not a mainline depot. The only booked services via Crystal Palace are indeed the Sutton to Cricklewood Depot ECS moves.
Three Bridges sign Lewes I did when I was there but never got to drive it
 

387star

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Crystal Palace was signed for the three year plus diversion around London Bridge

Three Bridges sign Preston Park and Brighton carriage sidings unless that has changed
 

OFFDN

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Nobody should sign Lewes anymore (apart from the aforementioned BD drivers who do), 1T certainly don’t.

1T have also lost their route knowledge of Preston Park Sidings and Brighton Down Sidings.
 

Surreytraveller

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Yeah you can
With a bit of difficulty. Certainly not with a normal timetable! Correct me if I'm wrong, but you can only get across as far as Platform 3 from Peckham Rye? Not sure if Thameslink are allowed to stop at Platform 3?
 

Class 170101

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Which depot signs Horsham to Brighton (via Littlehampton I think) for diversions when Haywards Heath is blocked?
 

Surreytraveller

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Which depot signs Horsham to Brighton (via Littlehampton I think) for diversions when Haywards Heath is blocked?
Brighton. Three Bridges. Barnham. I think Victoria but not sure if Victoria do Hove to Brighton. Come to think of it not sure if Three Bridges do Hove to Brighton
 

387star

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Nobody should sign Lewes anymore (apart from the aforementioned BD drivers who do), 1T certainly don’t.

1T have also lost their route knowledge of Preston Park Sidings and Brighton Down Sidings.
Quite a change back in 2016/7 bridges trainees were having to sign off lovers walk and selhurst as well

Losing Lewes seems stupid
 

JonathanH

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Losing Lewes seems stupid

Why? Thameslink stop short at Haywards Heath or Three Bridges when weekend engineering work closes the line further south leaving any diversions to be run by Southern.

The only possible issue is 9W21 / 9R00 overnight on weekdays but it seems they are happy to use bus substitutions on that as well when the line is shut.

It's not as if there is a load of Thameslink stock at Brighton overnight which might get marooned in the event of a problem.
 

Surreytraveller

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Why? Thameslink stop short at Haywards Heath or Three Bridges when weekend engineering work closes the line further south leaving any diversions to be run by Southern.

The only possible issue is 9W21 / 9R00 overnight on weekdays but it seems they are happy to use bus substitutions on that as well when the line is shut.

It's not as if there is a load of Thameslink stock at Brighton overnight which might get marooned in the event of a problem.
Indeed. Makes planning easier.
 

387star

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Why? Thameslink stop short at Haywards Heath or Three Bridges when weekend engineering work closes the line further south leaving any diversions to be run by Southern.

The only possible issue is 9W21 / 9R00 overnight on weekdays but it seems they are happy to use bus substitutions on that as well when the line is shut.

It's not as if there is a load of Thameslink stock at Brighton overnight which might get marooned in the event of a problem.
Was thinking if there's a problem to Brighton it's a handy diversion

Bit weirs they were getting three bridges pqa drivers to sign it then changed their minds
 

hozza94

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With a bit of difficulty. Certainly not with a normal timetable! Correct me if I'm wrong, but you can only get across as far as Platform 3 from Peckham Rye? Not sure if Thameslink are allowed to stop at Platform 3?
They are, I have even been on a Thameslink that called at platform 3 as 4 was blocked by another train during a crew changeover
 

Bikeman78

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I note that Cambridge, Peterborough and Horsham drivers might have had to learn an extra route but it seems a bit of loss of flexibility.
I think Horsham crew knew the Crystal Palace route when they were all Southern but I could be wrong.
 

387star

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I think Horsham crew knew the Crystal Palace route when they were all Southern but I could be wrong.
Yeah they had to learn tulse hill to Blackfriars via herne hill

A number at Horsham migrated from Three Bridges Blackfriars and Brighton TL depots including three trainees
 

Chrisgr31

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Someone somewhere has to know the Uckfield line, which of course means they also need to know the 171s
 
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