Brighton to Southampton Airport Parkway - via Portsmouth

Discussion in 'Fares Advice & Policy' started by planetf1, 5 Jun 2019.

  1. planetf1

    planetf1 Member

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    Can anyone tell me if Brighton - SOA (off peak return, via Barnham) is valid via Portsmouth for a break of journey (=shopping)?
     
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  3. planetf1

    planetf1 Member

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    I just tried www.trainsplit.com after learning of the advanced options. This offers me a single ticket (bri-soa via barnham) even when portsmouth harbour is selected as a stopping point - with a supporting itiniary, so it looks to be fine.... welcome to hear any other opinions! (or if we're likely to get complaints from the electronic gates or staff)
     
  4. bb21

    bb21 Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    Route doubles back at Hilsea. Valid via Portsmouth Harbour for interchange purposes only. Going shopping is not interchanging.
     
  5. JB_B

    JB_B Member

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    I think that's a quite conservative interpretation and I don't think it's the obvious reading but I acknowledge that it could be read that way.

    To recap, from the public-facing routeing guide section (A) p6 "This extended availability is for interchange purposes only". The meaning of this phrase is not defined elsewhere.

    The OP certainly would be changing trains at Portsmouth Harbour ( that would constitute an "interchange", surely) and they have a ticket that permits break of journey (so why shouldn't they go shopping?)


    Journey planners don't attempt to enforce your interpretation as far as I can tell ( I don't see how such a limitation could be codeable in the routeing data.)
     
  6. bb21

    bb21 Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    Going shopping is not interchanging. I'm not sure how anyone could draw any other conclusion in a sensible manner.

    Booking engine can only give a valid itinerary between origin and destination, not pass words on validity of break of journey. One can of course put two and two together (with BoJ restriction on the ticket) and draw their own conclusion, but a question was asked and the official correct answer is given as both of us are fully aware of the reason the extended validity is offered.

    The routeing guide is part of the contract formed with the customer. If one wishes to take full advantage of it utilising some odd deviations from sensible routes, one is best advised to make sure they are definitely fully valid. Harbour is also gated these days, so there is also a good chance getting oneself into a potential argument not 100% giaranteed to win.
     
  7. planetf1

    planetf1 Member

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    Thanks for the responses. I do appreciate the interaction :)

    My reading of the guidelines was that Break of journey is always allowed on a valid route.

    I decided to call national rail enquiries. I have details of who I spoke to and the time. I went through all the details and asked this explicit question about going via portsmouth harbour, and a break of journey for shopping. I was explicitly told that it absolutely is valid. no question.

    On this basis we'll go ahead. At least if there's any issue we'll pay up and claim back later. Nat Rail should have recordings which can confirm their approval.

    I'm not trying to avoid paying anything, simply making the best use of the system that is in place.

    thanks
     
  8. planetf1

    planetf1 Member

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    Just to clarify also - in these situations I'd never intend to get into an argument. I'd calmy make my point , explain the evidence and if after a min or two it wasn't agreed, pay up any additional fee, ask for receipt/notes, and then raise a complaint (later). That's the sensible approach. It's not fair on anyone including the staff given how complex it is to figure out any definitive answer to these questions :)
     
  9. Chumba

    Chumba Member

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    There are no barriers at PMH, that's because they platforms are also used to access the IOW fastcat from the street.
     
  10. Joe Paxton

    Joe Paxton Established Member

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  11. Iggy12a

    Iggy12a Member

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    Just curious: I can understand the ticket being valid via Fratton for interchange (and I would previously have assumed for BoJ), but why would it be valid all the way onwards to the Harbour just for interchange when you would have saved time by interchanging at Fratton? It seems completely superfluous to have any validity on the section between Fratton and the Harbour.
     
  12. bb21

    bb21 Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    As a general rule, routeing point groups exist to facilitate easier interchange. The routeing guide specifically permits doubling back within a routeing point group for that purpose (handy at many locations such as Hilsea in this case and Micklefield if interchanging between Selby and York routes, for example, as doublebacks are otherwise forbidden when tracing a permitted route, generally).

    It just so happens that stations in the Portsmouth area are all grouped into one, therefore theoretically allowing someone to go all the way into Harbour and back out, even though almost no one genuinely making an interchange would go all the way there rather than changing at Fratton.
     
  13. bb21

    bb21 Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    That is fine. You are likely to be OK as this is a fairly complex issue, however we do have to point out the potential risks of this given that we are aware where the problem may lie.

    Although (jesus wept!!) those people at National Rail Enquiries should not be allowed to give routeing advice, when they don't have a clue what they are talking about. o_O:rolleyes:
     
  14. Silverdale

    Silverdale Member

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    Just returning to the question of interchange purposes...

    If I had a ticket from A to C, valid via B 'for interchange purposes' and I also had a return ticket from B to D, would I be entitled to travel A-B-D-B-C, or would changing from using one ticket to the other at B be construed as a break of journey, and therefore disallowed?
     
  15. bb21

    bb21 Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    Erm, put that can-opener down. :E
     
  16. WesternLancer

    WesternLancer Member

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    Not sure about now, but back in the day you might well have done (changed at Harbour) on the basis that with heavy suitcases, or even a modest mobility problem, you can change platforms on the level at the harbour station but Fratton etc would involve stairs as no lifts / ramps IIRC - tho probably are now.

    In practice I can not imagine any staff preventing you interchanging OR breaking a journey along the coast at Portsmouth if you had a ticket that permitted break of journey to start with, as per the OPs ticket.
     
  17. bb21

    bb21 Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    A little bit of common sense in practice goes a long way
     

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