West Country Independents

[TheGrandWazoo]

Wasn't expected to see them piled on top of each other! To me, they still look like they could have a few more years left in them - but obviously mechanically that is probably a different story. I have heard that Primos are not particularly reliable.

However, i'm sure I read a Buses article about Crosville a few years ago, when the Primos were the main fleet - i seem to remember them being described as economical and reliable?

IIRC, they experience issues with suspension bushes wearing out about every 6-8 weeks. Reliable? No. Economical? Perhaps on fuel but not when you factor in repairs and spare vehicles!

That’s why there’s no resale value so better off just scrapping them.

 

[carlberry]

Wasn't expected to see them piled on top of each other! To me, they still look like they could have a few more years left in them - but obviously mechanically that is probably a different story. I have heard that Primos are not particularly reliable.

However, i'm sure I read a Buses article about Crosville a few years ago, when the Primos were the main fleet - i seem to remember them being described as economical and reliable?

I suspect the pile is a reflection of the chance anybody is going to want to recover spares from any of them!
Reliable could also be a relative term. If you can rely on at least one in three to be working on any given day and you can get enough of them cheaply (and can afford a few tows!) you may be able to rely on them. I suspect they didn't allow many onto the EDF contracts!

 

[Colly405]

Just got off a Wessex 10, the side display read 10 Southmead Station...

 

[g4mby]

According to http://wmbusphotos.com/Fleetchanges/Rotala.html 13 vehicles, the entire allocation, have moved from Keynsham to Avonmouth.

Does Keynsham now act as an outstation to Avonmouth or has it actually closed?

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

According to http://wmbusphotos.com/Fleetchanges/Rotala.html 13 vehicles, the entire allocation, have moved from Keynsham to Avonmouth.

Does Keynsham now act as an outstation to Avonmouth or has it actually closed?

Winston (on another thread) mentioned Burnett was now gone. I’ve seen a few NIS vehicles and that explains why.

That said, the future of Wessex in Bath may be limited as BaNES are looking at a number of supported services https://www.bathchronicle.co.uk/news/bath-news/bath-bus-services-under-threat-1111985

 

[g4mby]

Thanks for the info. I saw the article about Bath's supported services but hadn't found anything that related to the depot closure.

The Wessex website continues to say: "In Bath we operate from our Keynsham depot" and the jobs page implies that the company is still looking for drivers at both depots.

Must be worrying times at Wessex with the company now operating less than half the number of vehicles that it did three or four years ago.

 

[LiftFan]

Their reputation wasn't helped when a fatal car crash closed a road which meant no First buses could get in or out of the depot and most companies accepted First tickets on their services (faresaver etc) but Wessex didn't help at all.

 

[Whiteway215]

Not sure if this is the correct section of the Forum. Just witnessed the 16 25 Arleen Coaches 175 working from Bath to Peasedown. It was carrying around six passengers.
Worked by ex Country Bus Dart/Caetano Nimbus AE54HYV. But the best part for me was the ticket machine---------------a manual Setright! Oh happy days!

 

[DaveHarries]

According to http://wmbusphotos.com/Fleetchanges/Rotala.html 13 vehicles, the entire allocation, have moved from Keynsham to Avonmouth.

If that is the case but Wessex are continuing to operate in Bath I should imagine that might be costing Wessex / Rotala a bit of money through the OOS running between Avonmouth and Bath for which, I believe, there would be no fuel rebate.

That said, the future of Wessex in Bath may be limited as BaNES are looking at a number of supported services https://www.bathchronicle.co.uk/news/bath-news/bath-bus-services-under-threat-1111985

If Wessex did pull out of Bath then the easiest way to maintain the link between Twerton and the University of Bath would be for First to increase Service 5 to every 10 minutes between Bus Station and Whiteway with one journey every 30 minutes running as Service 5A and operating from Whiteway Circle to University of Bath via. Rush Hill, Odd Down and Combe Down.

Dave

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

If that is the case but Wessex are continuing to operate in Bath I should imagine that might be costing Wessex / Rotala a bit of money through the OOS running between Avonmouth and Bath for which, I believe, there would be no fuel rebate.


If Wessex did pull out of Bath then the easiest way to maintain the link between Twerton and the University of Bath would be for First to increase Service 5 to every 10 minutes between Bus Station and Whiteway with one journey every 30 minutes running as Service 5A and operating from Whiteway Circle to University of Bath via. Rush Hill, Odd Down and Combe Down.

Dave

Indeed - saw two Wessex vehicles passing through Saltford NIS last night about 18.50. You can see the 20A/C being carved up but oddly, the 12 (which is subsidised???) isn't mentioned. Also, got to wonder how the 42 will pay its way. Wessex took it on commercially after Abus retained the tender - was probably marginal before!

 

[freetoview33]

Indeed - saw two Wessex vehicles passing through Saltford NIS last night about 18.50. You can see the 20A/C being carved up but oddly, the 12 (which is subsidised???) isn't mentioned. Also, got to wonder how the 42 will pay its way. Wessex took it on commercially after Abus retained the tender - was probably marginal before!

It does seem odd where the dead running is now about 40 miles per bus, per day for as you said marginal services.

 

[winston270twm]

It does seem odd where the dead running is now about 40 miles per bus, per day for as you said marginal services.

The costs of running dead must be cheaper than leasing the yard in Burnett other wise that would still be open.

 

[freetoview33]

The costs of running dead must be cheaper than leasing the yard in Burnett other wise that would still be open.

True, I just wonder how much long the Wessex Ops will carry on for, very few small opps left to buy up around here.

 

[winston270twm]

True, I just wonder how much long the Wessex Ops will carry on for, very few small opps left to buy up around here.

As Rotala own Avonmouth depot, I understand they are intending to retain a presence in the South West in case any opportunities arise within Bristol in the future, from routes First Bristol may cut back / exit from / any tendered / contract work etc. Similar to the 51 scenario. There's Faresaver as a potential takeover target to boost their presence in Bath & surrounding areas.

 

[robertclark125]

As Rotala own Avonmouth depot, I understand they are intending to retain a presence in the South West in case any opportunities arise within Bristol in the future, from routes First Bristol may cut back / exit from / any tendered / contract work etc. Similar to the 51 scenario. There's Faresaver as a potential takeover target to boost their presence in Bath & surrounding areas.

Avonmouth is also the rotala groups accident repair facility. A Preston bus solo is or was there for accident repair. If it did pull out of the South West then rotala would need to establish new facilities elsewhere or contract it out.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

As Rotala own Avonmouth depot, I understand they are intending to retain a presence in the South West in case any opportunities arise within Bristol in the future, from routes First Bristol may cut back / exit from / any tendered / contract work etc. Similar to the 51 scenario. There's Faresaver as a potential takeover target to boost their presence in Bath & surrounding areas.

Faresaver might be attractive to a few firms.

Closing Burnett obviously made sense but the question with the remaining Bath services is that they were part of a larger Burnett depot. When it declined, it will have been cheaper to run from Avonmouth but how does it measure to the costs when the 42 (and other work) was originally taken on. The flip side is that it does contribute to the cost of Avonmouth.

 

[Martin2012]

A registration has appeared on VOSA for the cancellation of the 52 from 2nd April

 

[winston270twm]

Avonmouth is also the rotala groups accident repair facility. A Preston bus solo is or was there for accident repair. If it did pull out of the South West then rotala would need to establish new facilities elsewhere or contract it out.

Rotala Group's Main Engineering function is located at Diamond Bus Tividale depot (previously Long Acre prior to closure) as is Rotala Groups head office, group vehicles typically pass through there for prep & repaint on transfer, accident repairs & vehicles being returned off lease etc. A Hallmark Merc Tourismo is currently there for repair, a 62 plate Wessex B9TL/Gemini is at Tividale for prep & repaint in to Preston Bus colours. I can only assume the Preston Bus Solo you saw was there as Avonmouth possibly has spare capacity? Any idea of it's ID?

 

[winston270twm]

Faresaver might be attractive to a few firms.

Closing Burnett obviously made sense but the question with the remaining Bath services is that they were part of a larger Burnett depot. When it declined, it will have been cheaper to run from Avonmouth but how does it measure to the costs when the 42 (and other work) was originally taken on. The flip side is that it does contribute to the cost of Avonmouth.

Who else you consider would be interested in Faresaver?

I guess the future of Wessex Bath services may depend on potential cuts in B&NES subsidy, looks as though the Wessex Royal Bath routes 20A/C are up for re-tender this year

 

[robertclark125]

Number

Rotala Group's Main Engineering function is located at Diamond Bus Tividale depot (previously Long Acre prior to closure) as is Rotala Groups head office, group vehicles typically pass through there for prep & repaint on transfer, accident repairs & vehicles being returned off lease etc. A Hallmark Merc Tourismo is currently there for repair, a 62 plate Wessex B9TL/Gemini is at Tividale for prep & repaint in to Preston Bus colours. I can only assume the Preston Bus Solo you saw was there as Avonmouth possibly has spare capacity? Any idea of it's ID?

Number 10000. Preston bus told me it went to Avonmouth as it had the facilities to do it as it's the group repair centre.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Who else you consider would be interested in Faresaver?

I guess the future of Wessex Bath services may depend on potential cuts in B&NES subsidy, looks as though the Wessex Royal Bath routes 20A/C are up for re-tender this year

You could argue that any one of Stagecoach, First or GSC would see Fareaaver as a good geographic fit. However, not seen anything to make me think they’re in a hurry to sell but then, you seldom do

 

[winston270twm]

Number


Number 10000. Preston bus told me it went to Avonmouth as it had the facilities to do it as it's the group repair centre.

There is no Solo numbered 10000, 10000's fleetnumbers are for coaches. There is a Solo numbered 20000, this was parked in Tividale 25/8/17 (whilst I was there on a depot visit), it was awaiting rear end accident repair. I believe it

It was back at Preston Bus by 29/1/18:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/mjrprestonbus/39070892555/in/dateposted/

 

[winston270twm]

You could argue that any one of Stagecoach, First or GSC would see Fareaaver as a good geographic fit. However, not seen anything to make me think they’re in a hurry to sell but then, you seldom do

But, a large chunck of what Faresaver now run, is what First gave up on. First might only look to buy it if they got wind Rotala were after it.

 

[diffywood]

Some fares went up from monday on 52 route

 

[robertclark125]

Had a check, and indeed it was Optare Solo 20000 that was at Avonmouth for assessment and repair.

But what I got told off Preston Bus was that Avounmouth was the Rotala group accident repair centre. I can only imagine that they weren't aware of facilities in the Midlands.

 

[vicbury]

But, a large chunck of what Faresaver now run, is what First gave up on. First might only look to buy it if they got wind Rotala were after it.

I can't see Rotala buying Faresaver, nor Go Ahead. For me the logical fit is Stagecoach, who already operate several services in West Wiltshire and have wanted to put the squeeze on First for some time.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

I can't see Rotala buying Faresaver, nor Go Ahead. For me the logical fit is Stagecoach, who already operate several services in West Wiltshire and have wanted to put the squeeze on First for some time.

But, a large chunck of what Faresaver now run, is what First gave up on. First might only look to buy it if they got wind Rotala were after it.

We are talking very hypothetically here. Both Stagecoach and GSC would have the same reasons for a greater move into Wiltshire esp GSC given that they have Thamesdown as well as Reds/Tourist.

However, whilst First have ceded the best routes to Faresaver, we should remember it was because Faresaver were competing with First and with a highly effective model. Routes like Chippenham to Bath/Frome are decent for one operator but not for two esp when one can operate selectively and with a very low cost base. First purchasing Faresaver would re-establish the buffer between other operators and its core Bath business (though appreciate that Stagecoach has a tendril with the 620).

 

[winston270twm]

We are talking very hypothetically here. Both Stagecoach and GSC would have the same reasons for a greater move into Wiltshire esp GSC given that they have Thamesdown as well as Reds/Tourist.

However, whilst First have ceded the best routes to Faresaver, we should remember it was because Faresaver were competing with First and with a highly effective model. Routes like Chippenham to Bath/Frome are decent for one operator but not for two esp when one can operate selectively and with a very low cost base. First purchasing Faresaver would re-establish the buffer between other operators and its core Bath business (though appreciate that Stagecoach has a tendril with the 620).

I agree GSC would be the most likely, then possibly Stagecoach, I could only see First buying anything at present as a defensive move to block any new entrants to the Bath market.

 

[diffywood]

A registration has appeared on VOSA for the cancellation of the 52 from 2nd April

another company will be taking over

 

[vicbury]

We are talking very hypothetically here. Both Stagecoach and GSC would have the same reasons for a greater move into Wiltshire esp GSC given that they have Thamesdown as well as Reds/Tourist.

However, whilst First have ceded the best routes to Faresaver, we should remember it was because Faresaver were competing with First and with a highly effective model. Routes like Chippenham to Bath/Frome are decent for one operator but not for two esp when one can operate selectively and with a very low cost base. First purchasing Faresaver would re-establish the buffer between other operators and its core Bath business (though appreciate that Stagecoach has a tendril with the 620).

Do First view Bath as a core business?

If First buys Faresaver I'll eat my hat!