Britain’s relationship with the EU post Brexit.

[nlogax]

Simple. If chlorinated chicken bothers you, simply buy chicken that isn't chlorinated. Some people may not be bothered. All a matter of choice really.

You've entirely missed the point and ramifications for UK consumers.

Given that 50% of the raw chicken already sold in the UK has food poisoning bacteria on it, I don't think we are in any position to critise US methods.

Try looking beyond the chlorination process itself. It's then straightforward to understand why the US standard practice is to chlorinate chicken and why barely anyone wants to see that nonsense here.

https://www.rspcaassured.org.uk/news/what-is-chlorinated-chicken/ - RSPCA Assured - What is Chlorinated Chicken?

 

[furnessvale]

You've entirely missed the point and ramifications for UK consumers.



Try looking beyond the chlorination process itself. It's then straightforward to understand why the US standard practice is to chlorinate chicken and why barely anyone wants to see that nonsense here.

https://www.rspcaassured.org.uk/news/what-is-chlorinated-chicken/ - RSPCA Assured - What is Chlorinated Chicken?

Given that the RSPCA is an animal welfare organisation with, potentially a large axe to grind on this issue, I find the large number of equivocations and "could"s in that document, and the fact they prefer to quote others rather than assert for themselves, most enlightening.

 

[nlogax]

Given that the RSPCA is an animal welfare organisation with, potentially a large axe to grind on this issue, I find the large number of equivocations and "could"s in that document, and the fact they prefer to quote others rather than assert for themselves, most enlightening.

Yes. Imagine being so freakish as to consider animal welfare in the greater scheme of our food chain. How obnoxious of them.

 

[Bantamzen]

Given that the RSPCA is an animal welfare organisation with, potentially a large axe to grind on this issue, I find the large number of equivocations and "could"s in that document, and the fact they prefer to quote others rather than assert for themselves, most enlightening.

You are focusing on entirely the wrong issue. Rather than hunt for political reasons, why not ask why US chicken needs chlorination and UK/EU chicken does not. Even the US authorities admit that food poisoning in a serious issue there, with as much as 16% of their population suffering from it every year. The rate in the UK is currently around 1%.

https://www.cdc.gov/foodsafety/food-poisoning.html

https://www.foodsafetynews.com/2019/04/survey-finds-rise-in-people-affected-by-food-poisoning-in-uk/

In short, if it wasn't already obvious, accepting meats that requires chemical cleansing will require a reduction in our food safety standards, and an increased health risk as a result of lower quality food products than we currently accept.

 

[Peter Kelford]

Yes. Imagine being so freakish as to consider animal welfare in the greater scheme of our food chain. How obnoxious of them.

In China, where American practices reign, there's now a major problem where babies are naturally born resistant to medication such as antibiotics. Scientific studies show that this seems to be related to antibiotics in meat.

 

[furnessvale]

You are focusing on entirely the wrong issue. Rather than hunt for political reasons, why not ask why US chicken needs chlorination and UK/EU chicken does not. Even the US authorities admit that food poisoning in a serious issue there, with as much as 16% of their population suffering from it every year. The rate in the UK is currently around 1%.

https://www.cdc.gov/foodsafety/food-poisoning.html

https://www.foodsafetynews.com/2019/04/survey-finds-rise-in-people-affected-by-food-poisoning-in-uk/

In short, if it wasn't already obvious, accepting meats that requires chemical cleansing will require a reduction in our food safety standards, and an increased health risk as a result of lower quality food products than we currently accept.

Yes. Imagine being so freakish as to consider animal welfare in the greater scheme of our food chain. How obnoxious of them.

You are both misunderstanding my point. I opened the quote, expecting to find a hard attack on US animal welfare standards and chlorination of chicken. Instead I found equivocation.

I simply wonder why our animal welfare charity wasn't able to be stronger on the issue.

Perhaps ground where 50% of our domestic chicken already has pathogens on it, is not the firmest on which to pontificate.

 

[Bantamzen]

You are both misunderstanding my point. I opened the quote, expecting to find a hard attack on US animal welfare standards and chlorination of chicken. Instead I found equivocation.

I simply wonder why our animal welfare charity wasn't able to be stronger on the issue.

Perhaps ground where 50% of our domestic chicken already has pathogens on it, is not the firmest on which to pontificate.

I think the food poisoning statistics speak for themselves, clearly there are differences in the processes between US meat production and UK/EU hence their need to routinely chemically cleanse their chicken. But whatever the differences in processes are, aligning ourselves to accept the chlorinated meat needs a reduction in standards, and would be added to the list of where things may get worse following and/or as a result of Brexit.

 

[Grumpy Git]

I think the food poisoning statistics speak for themselves, clearly there are differences in the processes between US meat production and UK/EU hence their need to routinely chemically cleanse their chicken. But whatever the differences in processes are, aligning ourselves to accept the chlorinated meat needs a reduction in standards, and would be added to the list of where things may get worse following and/or as a result of Brexit.

Why is anyone continuing to argue the rights and wrongs? The whole shebang was gatecrashed by those seeking to gain power on a populism ticket. Unfortunately they have succeeded.

 

[Bantamzen]

Why is anyone continuing to argue the rights and wrongs? The whole shebang was gatecrashed by those seeking to gain power on a populism ticket. Unfortunately they have succeeded.

Because these things could still effect us. If the government sticks to the current set of food standards, that's fine. However if they cave in from US pressure during trade negotiations, that could leave us potentially more at risk from lower quality meat. Of course if it is correctly labelled then we have a conscious choice, but what's the betting that along with reduced food standards, a change in food labelling would be implemented so visibility was reduced.

Brexit, well at least the first move into the Working Agreement may now be a reality, that doesn't mean we have to lower our living standards just to make leavers feel like they are still "winning".

 

[nlogax]

Why is anyone continuing to argue the rights and wrongs? The whole shebang was gatecrashed by those seeking to gain power on a populism ticket. Unfortunately they have succeeded.

Common sense may have ended in 2016 but that doesn't mean facts need to go the same way.

 

[Esker-pades]

You are both misunderstanding my point. I opened the quote, expecting to find a hard attack on US animal welfare standards and chlorination of chicken. Instead I found equivocation.

I simply wonder why our animal welfare charity wasn't able to be stronger on the issue.

Perhaps ground where 50% of our domestic chicken already has pathogens on it, is not the firmest on which to pontificate.

You appear to have missed my reply.

Summary:
The US has worse food standards. Thus, whatever our figures for pathogens are here, they will get worse if we allow the US produce in.

Full:

Do you know what the figure for the US is (I don't - genuine question)?
Do you know what the difference is between the actual rate of food poisoning in the US and UK (quoted to be ~10 times as many cases in the US than the UK, adjusted for population; this could be wrong, so if you have a more authoritative source I'm willing to be corrected)?

But, you haven't questioned the substantive point, which is that the standards will get worse. So, that 50% figure (I'm not sure if it's correct, but it doesn't really matter either way) will get higher. Things will get worse. That is not what Brexit was supposed to be.

 

[Grumpy Git]

The other thing to be aware of if US chicken was ever allowed to be sold here is fraud.

There will always be those willing to mislabel such produce and attempt to pass it off as "premium". I'm sure we all recall the horsemeat scandal?

 

[nidave]

Well we all were shouting about brexit being about abolishing workers rights - but were ignored

Tory MP suggests workers may need to work longer hours to tackle post-Brexit shortages
"I genuinely think we need to have a serious think looking at the working time directive," he said.

https://www.theneweuropean.co.uk/to...BJTAjP7OCfOzhcj_9EHEvJFbkKH36GY4srT9pzFj-vTXI

The tweet in the linked article explains it better

The Working Time Directive only prevents forced overtime — it does not prevent voluntary overtime.

What he’s talking about is not an ‘opportunity’ for workers to choose to work longer hours, it’s an opportunity for employers to force workers to work longer hours.

https://twitter.com/cleay/status/1234802540564353029

 

[nidave]

Why is anyone continuing to argue the rights and wrongs? The whole shebang was gatecrashed by those seeking to gain power on a populism ticket. Unfortunately they have succeeded.

So thats it - we all should give up and accept our fate like good little citizens. Do you think we should stop tackling these issues because the some people in government who clearly have a vested interest in lining their own pockets and increasing their power and influence have said its fine?

The other thing to be aware of if US chicken was ever allowed to be sold here is fraud.

There will always be those willing to mislabel such produce and attempt to pass it off as "premium". I'm sure we all recall the horsemeat scandal?

One of the things the USA is saying is it would not allow any labelling of the chicken as being washed or coming from the USA in order to get a trade deal. so it would not be fraud if the government changed the labelling laws. Currently the EU restricts that

 

[Grumpy Git]

Well I voted to stay in and Brexit has killed at least 80% of my UK business (which was 90% of my overall sales).

I've just given up trying to argue the toss, and as there are a lot of less well off people than me who voted out, I'm "happy" to let them get on with it.

 

[Enthusiast]

Well I voted to stay in and Brexit has killed at least 80% of my UK business

What is your business that has been so susceptible to something that hasn't, as yet, properly happened?

 

[Grumpy Git]

What is your business that has been so susceptible to something that hasn't, as yet, properly happened?

I rely on capital spend in pharmaceutical production. Investment is at a virtual standstill in the UK due to not knowing how it's going to pan-out.

I've been contracting in Europe for a German company for most of my income of late. Something I'd never done in nearly 25 years in business until last year.

There is a brand new £120M sterile facility built in the south east which has been mothballed without a single piece of production equipment being installed.

Welcome to Brexit in my world.

 

[VauxhallandI]

I wouldn’t worry there will be plenty of Brexiteers that couldn’t run a bath who will be able to tell you where you got it wrong.

 

[Grumpy Git]

I wouldn’t worry there will be plenty of Brexiteers that couldn’t run a bath who will be able to tell you where you got it wrong.

I've had that already from a retired 70 something engineer. He told me it was my fault for not "moving with the times"!

 

[Peter Kelford]

Well I voted to stay in and Brexit has killed at least 80% of my UK business (which was 90% of my overall sales).

I've just given up trying to argue the toss, and as there are a lot of less well off people than me who voted out, I'm "happy" to let them get on with it.

In other words your business is a quarter of the size it once was.

I rely on capital spend in pharmaceutical production. Investment is at a virtual standstill in the UK due to not knowing how it's going to pan-out.
I've been contracting in Europe for a German company for most of my income of late. Something I'd never done in nearly 25 years in business until last year
There is a brand new £120M sterile facility built in the south east which has been mothballed without a single piece of production equipment being installed.
Welcome to Brexit in my world.

Maybe Covid will give you something to make money out of?

I've had that already from a retired 70 something engineer. He told me it was my fault for not "moving with the times"!

I.e. sell dubious poor quality medicines at exorbitant prices à l'americaine?

 

[nidave]

As Boris once again threatens us with a no deal brexit (and I suspect Cummings is controlling him via someone in the USA or Russia) we have the further decimation of the car industry looming

Peugeot could demand compensation from the British government to keep its Vauxhall factory in Ellesmere Port open in the event of a bad Brexit deal, its chief executive has said.

https://www.theguardian.com/busines...uld-seek-compensation-to-keep-uk-factory-open

 

[Grumpy Git]

Slightly right of centre but not OT.

The Republicans in the US (our would be new big trading partner) have blocked the proposed coronavurus bill, because it limits the amount drugs companies can charge for medicines!

 

[dosxuk]

Slightly right of centre but not OT.

The Republicans in the US (our would be new big trading partner) have blocked the proposed coronavurus bill, because it limits the amount drugs companies can charge for medicines!

But then in the core US Republican world, coronavirus is a democratic party conspiracy and doesn't need any special handling or attention.

 

[Grumpy Git]

But then in the core US Republican world, coronavirus is a democratic party conspiracy and doesn't need any special handling or attention.

Purely by chance I got speaking to a US guy over a beer last month in a very busy pub (shared table space). He came over as a regular guy until the conversation turned political. I asked him his thoughts on Obamacare and he went on a rant about Obama being a commie!

 

[Bantamzen]

Purely by chance I got speaking to a US guy over a beer last month in a very busy pub (shared table space). He came over as a regular guy until the conversation turned political. I asked him his thoughts on Obamacare and he went on a rant about Obama being a commie!

I know a few Americans who are like this guy, some even complain bitterly about the lack of good mental health care in the US whilst in almost the same breath renouncing social health care as communism. The Republican Party have done a good job of demonising social health care over there, despite the benefits it could bring them.

And of course all this could have a serious effect on us, and our relationship with the EU. If the man-child Trump gets in again later this year, and honestly I can see it sadly, it will be his administration that we will be dealing with. And you know an emboldened Trump administration will pressure us more and more to accept their terms on trade, which could see us lowering our standards which might come in conflict with EU standards, meaning we might be forced increasingly to rely on the US. In a scenario like this we will have gone from being a partial decision maker in a trading block, to being dictated to by a super power. Progress eh...???

 

[najaB]

And you know an emboldened Trump administration will pressure us more and more to accept their terms on trade, which could see us lowering our standards which might come in conflict with EU standards, meaning we might be forced increasingly to rely on the US.

It isn't just a conflict. The EU has made it clear that lowering our standards is a complete and total red line for getting a deal with them. And the US has made it clear that we have to lower our standards to get a deal with them.

So it's one or the other, no chance of both.

 

[RichT54]

The government is now indulging in some serious escalation

Tory government tells EU that Royal Navy will be sent in to protect UK waters from European fishing vessels

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...-fishing-brexit-vessels-protect-a9374496.html

The government's fishing minister has warned the EU that the UK has taken “sufficient” steps to protect its waters after Brexit, as fears grow of a French blockade.
The Royal Navy boasts three extra vessels, the Home Office will provide a further four and the government can call in help from the private sector, George Eustice said.

 

[Esker-pades]

The government is now indulging in some serious escalation



https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...-fishing-brexit-vessels-protect-a9374496.html

Oh, for goodness sake.

 

[nlogax]

The government is now indulging in some serious escalation

'UK Government rapidly increases investment in embarrassing all British citizens'

 

[Grumpy Git]

'UK Government rapidly increases investment in embarrassing all British citizens'

Good luck chasing a trawler with an 80,000 ton aircraft carrier sans aircraft.