Britain’s Worst Connected Big Cities By Rail.

Discussion in 'Infrastructure & Stations' started by Envoy, 16 Aug 2019.

  1. Southsider

    Southsider Member

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    Perhaps I’m biased but I’d put the Glasgow suburban network above Merseyrail. It gives the city fantastic local connectivity.
     
  2. Bletchleyite

    Bletchleyite Veteran Member

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    It's very similar in a lot of ways, though perhaps has slightly better reach. But Merseyrail is very well used locally. I think a sign of that kind of connectivity is that it's not only used for journeys to/from the big city.
     
  3. Cherry_Picker

    Cherry_Picker Established Member

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    I'd say the Irish Sea to the west and north (albeit with some coastline too) and the Mersey Estuary to the south. We can get sidetracked by the semantics but it's a lot of water and it means Liverpool isn't really on the way to anywhere else on the mainland, and lots of other places which are better connected are.
     
  4. Taunton

    Taunton Established Member

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    I used to use these, in particular to get back from Liverpool to Taunton. But there was only one worthwhile service a day, at 09.05, via Hereford. Yes, it was a through train, and it doesn't run any more. But now it's every 30 minutes, changing at Birmingham, right through the day, to the extent that you don't really need a timetable any more.
     
  5. quantinghome

    quantinghome Member

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    Egad, not the Norwich service! Seriously, how many people does this actually affect?

    Sleeper services were once very important. There used to be more sleepers from London to Scotland up the West Coast than day trains. But they have largely disappeared over the last few decades due to major structural changes in travel patterns.

    Bradford has come off far worse in terms of service cuts over the decades. Even looking at Leeds, there is no service to North or South Wales, nothing to East Anglia, one service a day to the south coast.
     
  6. duffield

    duffield Member

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    At least Nottingham to Leeds should be quite a lot quicker when it's re-routed via Wakefield Westgate (and extended to Bradford) instead of the current route via Barnsley/Kirkgate.
     
  7. yorksrob

    yorksrob Veteran Member

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    Plus the potential for longer trains.
     
  8. frodshamfella

    frodshamfella Member

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    Agree.
     
  9. Bletchleyite

    Bletchleyite Veteran Member

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    People actually living in Liverpool? I'd venture absolutely none. It's quicker to travel via London, and you actually get to avoid having your ears rattled off by 5.5 hours of Class 158 engine racket and transmission whine.
     
  10. Starmill

    Starmill Events Co-ordinator

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    What sort of journey are you actually making? I have tried Huddersfield to Leicester as you indicate and this does appear to be permitted for travel via Leeds.

    Journeys from Leeds to Leicester are reasonably competitive by rail. It can be done in 1h 55 with one change at Chesterfield. This is comparable with the driving time.

    Of course, if you're travelling on business, you would be looking at an outrageous £80 return from Huddersfield to Leicester, so you would be very unlikely to choose the train if driving were an option.
     
  11. Starmill

    Starmill Events Co-ordinator

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    I live in Greater Manchester, and Liverpool city centre is the one I spend the most time in after Manchester city centre.
     
  12. Starmill

    Starmill Events Co-ordinator

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    You can change at Stafford instead on many journeys now. For example, tomorrow morning:

    0803 Runcorn to Stafford 0840 (Virgin Trains)
    0902 Stafford to Exeter St Davids 1225 (CrossCountry)

    This is probably going to result in a slightly more comfortable and less stressful journey.
     
  13. Starmill

    Starmill Events Co-ordinator

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    If you're in a hurry travelling from Huddersfield to Nottingham, you're going to be changing at Leeds or travelling via Penistone unfortunately. Infuriatingly, the stagger via the latter is the slightly quicker. :( The journey time of around 2h 30 is uncompetitive. In the other direction there is a connection at Wakefield Kirkgate. This is still so slow that you don't save any time, though.
     
  14. frodshamfella

    frodshamfella Member

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    Thank you.
     
  15. Chew-chew

    Chew-chew Member

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    If you include the wider urban area outside Hull (most of the suburbs are outside the city boundary, though part of the same urban area) the population is around 500,000. Statistically Hull always looks bad economically not least because what wealth there is in the area typically resides over the border in the East Riding. In terms of rail, passengers with money often board at Brough making their way there by car.

    Rail service is a bit of a chicken and egg situation. Is connectivity poor because of the poor economics of the area or is the economy held back by poor connectivity? Hull has the worst TPE service of the east coast destinations, only one franchised train per day to London and no direct services beyond York/Manchester/Sheffield. Yet, has been able to support seven return trains to London per day with Hull Trains with no subsidy. Do HT demonstrate that, if the service is provided, the demand is there?
     
  16. AndyHudds

    AndyHudds Member

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    It is now allowed since any connection at Wakefield has been ruled out by there being no actual no connection at Wakefield for the change at Sheffield. Is 1 hour 55 competitive? I just found the whole trip a pain in the backside if I'm honest for the relatively short distance mileage wise, aside from Derby, the whole of the east Midlands from West Yorkshire is a pain to get to by rail.
     
  17. TrainTube

    TrainTube Member

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    I agree in that splitting the Liverpool to Norwich service isn't a big issue, its much quicker to go via London to anywhere east of Peterborough, and passengers have a choice going to Grantham and Peterborough either going via Leeds or via London. I struggle with 3 hours on an SWR 159, cant bear to think what 5.5 is like, the EMT/EMR 158s don't even have Wifi!
     
  18. frodshamfella

    frodshamfella Member

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    I kind of think its a shame it is be chopped in two. If it was a better train...more coaches standard and first...etc etc..it would be a different experience .
     
  19. IanXC

    IanXC Emeritus Moderator

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    I guess in all of this a very good way of improving the scores of the least connected cites is to link them together....

    It'd be interesting to see the figures with the Hull to Halifax (via Bradford) service added.
     
  20. TrainTube

    TrainTube Member

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    I haven't been on a 222, but if they're like a 221 then that would be a nicer experience for customers, I know that sometimes they do run 222s. Or they could split it at a different point than Nottingham. I take it that Nottingham to Norwich is less time than Nottingham to Liverpool, maybe splitting it at Grantham or Peterborough would be better, but still I don't think it affects too many.
     
  21. adrock1976

    adrock1976 Established Member

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    Although venturing into a traction related theme here, I believe that the 222s are banned east of Ely due to the the track being built on marshland, and cannot keep to Sprinter timings.
     
  22. Class83

    Class83 Member

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    The 'merseyrail electrics' services are very good to where they go, but for West Wirral (connect at Bidston) or East Liverpool/Knowsley (Northernland) it's less so. Even with the new trains, they will be short of 6/8* car services in the peak.

    *8 car on new trains is effectively 6 car as they are short carriages.
     
  23. Djgr

    Djgr Member

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    West Wirral is generally considered as covering Meols to West Kirby. The only station on the Borderlands line in West Wirral involving Bidston connections is Heswall. Neston is South Wirral.

    FWIW As well as a geographical area the term "from West Wirral" is frequently used to represent a certain lifestyle, similar to the Cheshire or Surrey set.
     

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