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British rail catering manual

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Shaza

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Im interested in reading the british rail catering manual and was wandering if any of you could help direct me in finding a copy of this manual.

I was thinking at the NRM archives, but I don’t know how easy it would be to get a hold of a copy there.

Much thanks in advanced
 
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AndrewE

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I don't know about a BR catering manual, but my recent experience of research at York museum was that it (the "customer experience") was outstanding.
A friend had somehow establlshed that a full set of (1920s) drawings that he wanted to examine was available, he reserved a slot in their reading room and the drawings were handed to him to photograph as much as he wanted - with a step ladder provided to allow him to get up vertically above them (I and another friend went with him.) If he wanted he then could pay to have specific drawings either scanned and emailed to him or photocopied and posted.
I noticed someone else there digging through a set of old working timetables, so I would guess that there is a fair chance that any BR document you need might be there.
See https://www.railwaymuseum.org.uk/research-and-archive/plan-research-visit
 

WesternLancer

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Im interested in reading the british rail catering manual and was wandering if any of you could help direct me in finding a copy of this manual.

I was thinking at the NRM archives, but I don’t know how easy it would be to get a hold of a copy there.

Much thanks in advanced
Do you know of the existence of such a manual? I guess there was such a thing now you mention it. I used to work at Travellers Fare in the 1980s (on food prep and counter sales at a station) and I don't really recall ever having been shown a manual, we were just shown how to prepare stuff by other existing staff who already knew. But maybe behind all that was a manual of items and how they should have been prepared.

If you locate it I'd be interested in learning more, please do report back.
 

Shaza

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Do you know of the existence of such a manual? I guess there was such a thing now you mention it. I used to work at Travellers Fare in the 1980s (on food prep and counter sales at a station) and I don't really recall ever having been shown a manual, we were just shown how to prepare stuff by other existing staff who already knew. But maybe behind all that was a manual of items and how they should have been prepared.

If you locate it I'd be interested in learning more, please do report back.
I first came across reference to that manual in the attached picture.

I sent an email through to the NRM archives asking about the manual and got this link sent back to me: http://yorsearch.york.ac.uk/44YORK:44YORK_ALMA_DS21215078040001381

I’m now just wandering who holds the copyright to this document now that BR are gone. Is it the department of transport?
 

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WesternLancer

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I first came across reference to that manual in the attached picture.

I sent an email through to the NRM archives asking about the manual and got this link sent back to me: http://yorsearch.york.ac.uk/44YORK:44YORK_ALMA_DS21215078040001381

I’m now just wandering who holds the copyright to this document now that BR are gone. Is it the department of transport?
Interesting, thanks.
Copyright may well be with DfT or in fact delegated to NRM. In another capacity I have donated documents to public archives etc and you usually have to sign the copyright over to them, or if not make it clear with the document who retains it. Often the archive takes on the rights to reproduction etc for administrative simplicity - otherwise every time a researcher wants to look at a document and make a photocopy for their own research it would open up a hassle of getting some person in a variety of other organisations to agree, and this is impractical from the archive administrators point of view. If you don't sign this over the archive might just refuse the document. Of course if you wish to deposit the original lyric sheets of the Beatles 1st album, it may be that you can negotiate something different with the archive, but for most things that will not be the case. The archives agreements may have limitations on it - eg you can copy for your own use, but not then place a copy on line etc.

Hopefully the NRM archives would advise on this for you

A bit more here

https://www.railwaymuseum.org.uk/research-and-archive/further-resources/copying-and-copyright
 

Shaza

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I sent an email through to the NRM archives asking about the manual and got this link sent back to me: http://yorsearch.york.ac.uk/44YORK:44YORK_ALMA_DS21215078040001381

I’m now just wandering who holds the copyright to this document now that BR are gone. Is it the department of transport?
Interesting, thanks.
Copyright may well be with DfT or in fact delegated to NRM. In another capacity I have donated documents to public archives etc and you usually have to sign the copyright over to them, or if not make it clear with the document who retains it. Often the archive takes on the rights to reproduction etc for administrative simplicity - otherwise every time a researcher wants to look at a document and make a photocopy for their own research it would open up a hassle of getting some person in a variety of other organisations to agree, and this is impractical from the archive administrators point of view. If you don't sign this over the archive might just refuse the document. Of course if you wish to deposit the original lyric sheets of the Beatles 1st album, it may be that you can negotiate something different with the archive, but for most things that will not be the case. The archives agreements may have limitations on it - eg you can copy for your own use, but not then place a copy on line etc.

Hopefully the NRM archives would advise on this for you

A bit more here

https://www.railwaymuseum.org.uk/research-and-archive/further-resources/copying-and-copyright
I will definitely check with them when I go to check out the manual. The reason I believe the copyright may be with the DfT is that the br identity manual’s copyright was held by them, as seen with this republication https://britishrailmanual.com/
This may however just be because it’s and identity manual and not a cooking manual
 

mailbyrail

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I well remember the instructions of how to make scrambled egg similar to the sandwich information. Not sure if it was the early 70s when I worked as a student in Lime Street station refreshment rooms (not doing any cooking) or seeing it later in the late 70s on the Eastern Region.
I can also remember the instruction to have a thicker layer in a sandwich where it is to be cut to 'improve the appearance'. I've always been wary of what you can see in packed sandwiches ever since, because if you can hardly see anything where the contents are exposed, then just imagine what is in the section you can't see.
 

AndrewE

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I first came across reference to that manual in the attached picture.

I sent an email through to the NRM archives asking about the manual and got this link sent back to me: http://yorsearch.york.ac.uk/44YORK:44YORK_ALMA_DS21215078040001381

I’m now just wondering who holds the copyright to this document now that BR are gone. Is it the department of transport?
It's going well then... I wouldn't worry about formalities, just follow your nose: no-one charges for information "in the interests of research!"
I am pleased (but not surprised) that they have come up trumps.
 

Taunton

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This manual was described in Modern Railways long ago (they used to have a monthly column about rail catering), stating it had colour photographs of how each of the dishes was to be prepared - this when colour printing was still unusual and expensive.
 

Shaza

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This manual was described in Modern Railways long ago (they used to have a monthly column about rail catering), stating it had colour photographs of how each of the dishes was to be prepared - this when colour printing was still unusual and expensive.
Sounds fascinating, I’ll definitely be checking it out soon
 

56 1/2

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An aside, was there a rash of prosecutions 70s? Stewards taking their own tomatoes and pocketing 30p per sandwich
 

whoosh

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An aside, was there a rash of prosecutions 70s? Stewards taking their own tomatoes and pocketing 30p per sandwich

Rife in some areas into privatisation. Not just sandwiches. Staff would go to a cash and carry, load up with cans of lager etc. then sell them on the train for the price the railway charged and pocket the difference. Football Saturdays were strangely a very popular day to work - contrary to what you'd usually think!
They'd sell wine to standard class passengers, pocket the money, and put it down on the sheet that a first class passenger had been given a complementary one that they were entitled to have.

Got told all this by someone who once worked on buffet cars and I was astounded!
 

WesternLancer

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Rife in some areas into privatisation. Not just sandwiches. Staff would go to a cash and carry, load up with cans of lager etc. then sell them on the train for the price the railway charged and pocket the difference. Football Saturdays were strangely a very popular day to work - contrary to what you'd usually think!
They'd sell wine to standard class passengers, pocket the money, and put it down on the sheet that a first class passenger had been given a complementary one that they were entitled to have.

Got told all this by someone who once worked on buffet cars and I was astounded!
Having said this, I know from personal experience that there was a tough process to go through if you did things that looked like you had pocketed stock or cash. I recall an occasion early in my employment when due to a large queue and being distracted at the till, I can't recall the exact error, but it was something like I keyed in a sum for a product (cup of tea I think) at say 40 (pence) but the tills registered products by item (so the till clocked 40 cups of tea at eg 40p each not one cup at 40p) - result: till about £15 'down' at the end of the shift - tills were not shared so 'your' till was your responsibility. A till could take several hundred pounds during the 8 hour shift so this was not a large percentage of the takings. I didn't notice the error and forgot all about it. However, this resulted in a detailed cross questioning by the shift supervisor who had to cash up the till, and then an interview with the manager next day when they came on duty. Fortunately by that time I had worked out what had happened and was thus able to offer an explanation. This had to be written up and signed by me, then sent off to a higher person (probably a finance officer or regional office or some such). It was made clear to me that if the explanation was not accepted I could be up for disciplinary action etc. I suspect that it was accepted with no further action, because if you had wanted to steal £15 you would not be foolish enough to leave an obvious trail on the till records!

Funnily enough, and I could never work out why, but it seemed impossible to ever get your till to balance correctly at the end of a shift. It would usually be up or down by £1 to £2 however much care you took - which does mean that people do get the wrong change on a regular basis! Those sorts of sums were accepted however.

So clearly such matters were treated seriously. But that's not to say it would not have been possible to steal items of stock and material, or perhaps find ways to sell products off the books - although that would be tricky at a station outlet (whereas I think trolleys on board would have operated with no more than a cash drawer, not a till, which makes it easier).
 
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Taunton

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Bringing "your own" products to sell is by no means confined to the railway, it has plenty of examples elsewhere in catering (and indeed other areas). Managed pubs were/are particularly prone to it. Not always at the instigation of the apparent perpetrator - organised gangs forcing their products on the crew, for a cut/most of it is another aspect.

The normal audit process that catches it is there is an expectation for individual receipt totals, and these falling short are the first sign of something to watch for. Catering auditors are well used to putting their finger on the trends.

Having said that, it's surprising there were any prosecutions, other than the gangs. Normally dismissal is the end of it.

Managing the stocks in a refreshment vehicle is particularly difficult - apparently when one entered the works for any repairs there was a rush to check all the cupboards for anything of interest left behind, even the plates. Break-ins when standing on sidings overnight were also not unknown.
 
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