British Rail Class 157

[overthewater]

What happened to this stock? Why was it never built? It seems scottish office were happy to pay for them and we would have seen SPT area and Fife circular.

I can't find much about it on line.

 

[507021]

I'd be interested to find out more about these units too, particularly how many would have been built. The only thing I can find is the Class 157 Wikipedia article, although the article doesn't say why the project to build the units was no longer viable.

 

[AlistairCowell]

It was the privatisation of British Rail that resulted in the cancellation of the Class 157 units. That's why there is no 526xx and 576xx number range on sprinter units, the number range was reserved to the proposed Class 157 units. In the event, a fleet of 11 refurbished Class 101 units were operated out of Glasgow Central for a while and were later replaced by Class 156 cascaded from the Far North Lines.

 

[overthewater]

4 were planned for the Fife circular.

 

[sprinterguy]

In the event, a fleet of 11 refurbished Class 101 units were operated out of Glasgow Central for a while and were later replaced by Class 156 cascaded from the Far North Lines.

Ah, so that's why a number of Super Sprinters in the 15643x and 15644x range gained SPT carmine and cream livery post-privatisation, as well as the 1565xx units. That's explained something I'd idly wondered about before - thanks.

 

[dubscottie]

Lack of funding. BR was not interested so Strathclyde & Fife had to provide the money.

Fife said they would stump up if BR reopened the Leven branch. BR said no so Fife pulled the plug.

Strathclyde did try to get other English/Welsh councils or PTAs on board but there was no interest and it was not viable anymore.

Hunslet was the only company that put a bid in as the 155/156/158 & Turbo production lines had already closed.

They would have been a 23m, 2 car DMU version of the 323.

 

[overthewater]

The is no mention of the leven branch for the train?, it was supposed to solve overcrowding?.

 

[dubscottie]

The is no mention of the leven branch for the train?, it was supposed to solve overcrowding?.

It was well reported in the local papers at the time (Dunfermline Press & Dundee Courier). Internal politics at Fife Council.

Yes the Fife ones were to ease overcrowding but certain councillors said "reopen the Leven branch or no money".

 

[dubscottie]

Edit to my above posts.

I found a article in Modern Railways about the 157s from July 1992.

BREL did offer a 165. They also offered to pay the £1 million (1992 prices) cost of modifying platforms etc as they would out of gauge.

Strathclyde said no so it was Hunslet. Other units were planned for Fife, Grampian and the Ivanhoe and Robin Hood lines.

In addition to being told they must lease the units, a request for a 156 clone turned into a brand new unit.

I will try to dig out later issues to confirm how the saga ended!

 

[Cowley]

The 157 popped up on another thread recently (unfortunately I can’t remember which one).
I think it might have been quite a handsome machine If it had actually been built.

 

[GusB]

Strathclyde said no so it was Hunslet. Other units were planned for Fife, Grampian and the Ivanhoe and Robin Hood lines.

I'd be interested to find out which services in Grampian these units were planned for - would it have been Inverurie/Dyce-Stonehaven, or would they have ventured further afield?

The 157 popped up on another thread recently (unfortunately I can’t remember which one).
I think it might have been quite a handsome machine If it had actually been built.

I managed to find this thread: https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/br-units-that-never-were.47117/ but there were only a few posts.

All I can find is the artists impression on the Wikipedia page, but it does look quite good:

 

[alangla]

Were these definitely 2 car units? I’d thought (from sketchy recollections of reading RAIL in the 1990s) that they were to be single cars. Am I right in saying that the cancellation of these units basically finished Hunslet off after the 323s were built?

Hard to believe, looking at the 6 car EMUs running to Whifflet today that it used to be a 2 car 101 mainly carrying fresh air, same with the 4 car 380s to Paisley Canal

 

[AlistairCowell]

According to Wikipedia, Class 157 would have been manufactured by Metro-Cammell (might not be accurate though).

 

[overthewater]

Might be a blessing since we ended up with 3 car unit 170.

 

[AlistairCowell]

I have made a picture of the Strathclyde PTE Class 157 to show what would have looked had it come intro fruition:


Having BR reserved number range 526xx and 576xx, the units would have been a 2-car unit. Only artist's impression of the front train of the Class 157 existed (and that's on Wikipedia), but being planned to be built by Hunslet TPL, I decided to reconstruct the rest of the units based on Class 323 EMU. On the artist's impression of the Class 157, the unit number read 157001, and according to Wikipedia, 21 units would have been built, so it is suggested that the number range would be 157001 to 157021. However the number range of 157601 to 157621 is probably the most likely.

After all, the proposed Class 157 DMUs never went beyond the design stage.
Another order that got also cancelled for from Hunslet TPL was for 14 Class 323 units for the West Yorkshire PTE.

 

[whhistle]

I have made a picture of the Strathclyde PTE Class 157 to show what would have looked had it come intro fruition:

Although I doubt it would have had 2/3 doors.
Happy to be corrected but I would have thought the 156/158 end of coach doors would have continued.

 

[AlistairCowell]

The door arrangements on the Class 157 unit is not clearly confirmed as far as I’m aware.

Due to having the drivers own door on the proposed unit it is assumed that the door arrangement would be the same as the Class 323. Hey, we can only predict.

 

[dubscottie]

Regarding the potential number range for these units, 1571xx, 1578xx or 1579xx would have been most likely as ScotRail used the last 3 digits to identify DMUs.

0xx - Class 107
1xx - not used
2xx - Class 150/2
3xx - unrefurbished Class 101
4xx & 5xx - Class 156
6xx - Refurbished Class 101
7xx - Class 158
8xx & 9xx not used.

 

[43096]

Regarding the potential number range for these units, 1571xx, 1578xx or 1579xx would have been most likely as ScotRail used the last 3 digits to identify DMUs.

0xx - Class 107
1xx - not used
2xx - Class 150/2
3xx - unrefurbished Class 101
4xx & 5xx - Class 156
6xx - Refurbished Class 101
7xx - Class 158
8xx & 9xx not used.

The general principle of the Sprinter generation was the set number matched the last three digits of the 52xxx and 57xxx car numbers and would be decided centrally. 1xx was used for the first batch of 150s, 3xx was used for class 153/155 and 8xx and 9xx for 158s, so 6xx seems most likely (and also fits neatly in sequence between 156 and 158).

 

[sprinterguy]

Although I doubt it would have had 2/3 doors.
Happy to be corrected but I would have thought the 156/158 end of coach doors would have continued.

The only artists impression produced contemporary with the proposal shows a bodyshell similar to that of a 323, with the leading door at the one third position, as seen on the Wikipedia article and described above:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Rail_Class_157

It doesn't seem outlandish to assume that Hunslet might have used an adaptation of the 23 metre class 323 bodyshell, that they were already producing, for such a small order.

Regarding the potential number range for these units, 1571xx, 1578xx or 1579xx would have been most likely as ScotRail used the last 3 digits to identify DMUs.

0xx - Class 107
1xx - not used
2xx - Class 150/2
3xx - unrefurbished Class 101
4xx & 5xx - Class 156
6xx - Refurbished Class 101
7xx - Class 158
8xx & 9xx not used.

Every written and online source I've seen has stated that they would have been numbered in the 1576xx series (The artists impression linked to above carries the number 157001, but I don't treat this as gospel). As noted above by 43096, the numbering sequence for 15x series Sprinter units was sequential, so 157s would have occupied the unused 600 series between classes 156 and 158.

Note also that, as mentioned earlier in this thread, if the 157s had been built there probably wouldn't have been 101s refurbished in their stead, so the 6xx series would have been available anyway.

 

[dubscottie]

The general principle of the Sprinter generation was the set number matched the last three digits of the 52xxx and 57xxx car numbers and would be decided centrally. 1xx was used for the first batch of 150s, 3xx was used for class 153/155 and 8xx and 9xx for 158s, so 6xx seems most likely (and also fits neatly in sequence between 156 and 158).

But that was not always the case however. Centro for example remembered its 3 car 150 sets from 150/1 to 150/0. The set and unit numbers didn't match then! Same with the 159s.

While the vehicle numbers may well have been 526xx etc the set numbers may well have been different to suit local conditions.

The 107s were originally numbered 1074xx. When the 156 came along they became 1077xx and they got renumbered again to 1070xx when the 158s arrived so there was no clash. All to suit local operating practices.

 

[59CosG95]

Of course now, with the creation of the Class 57s, the 57/6 number range is occupied...

 

[Neptune]

But that was not always the case however. Centro for example remembered its 3 car 150 sets from 150/1 to 150/0. The set and unit numbers didn't match then! Same with the 159s.

While the vehicle numbers may well have been 526xx etc the set numbers may well have been different to suit local conditions.

The 107s were originally numbered 1074xx. When the 156 came along they became 1077xx and they got renumbered again to 1070xx when the 158s arrived so there was no clash. All to suit local operating practices.

The original 159’s were built as a continuation of the 158’s and were officially 158873-158894 until conversion to class 159 at Rosyth.

The 3 car 150/1’s were renumbered as 150/0’s to differentiate between 2 and 3 car units retaining their last 2 digits.

The 157’s had the 6xx range reserved for them and would inevitably become 157601 - 157621. If built then the 1016xx range would never have made it to Scotland meaning no problems for unit number clashes. The Scottish 101’s were originally numbered in the 1013xx range prior to early 90’s refurbishment.

 

[AlistairCowell]

1016XX number range also applied to Regional Railways Class 101 units operating in North West England and Wales. They were refurbished Class 101 units that first appeared around 1992.

The Class 157 units were first proposed around 1993, maybe earlier. I reckon the Class 101/6 units would be cascaded back south had Class 157 units been built.

I think 1576XX number range would probably be inevitable.

 

[dubscottie]

I looked over my old Modern Railways mags and can see no reference to them being allocated 1576xx numbers.

However.. As they were in effect class 107 replacements they could well have been 1570xx.

The 1013xx sets went to MC metals and the refurbished 1016xx were around at the time of the 157 proposals.

The influx of class 117s from south of the border and the subsequent cascade of the 101s to Glasgow (plus looming privatisation) killed the idea.

Also if there was a uniform national unit numbering system a 1576xx would have clashed with the class 143 units which are 1436xx.

As I said, it was Scottish Region policy at the time to use only the last 3 digits of the unit number.

Its why the 107s were renumbered twice in the space of 3 years!

If you are using Wikipedia for the idea that the SET numbers would have been 1576xx be aware that the source is Colin J Marsden. A source that frequently gets basic information horribly wrong in his publications.