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Broken Down Train at Apperley Bridge causing chaos (23/08)

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Eric

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Can anyone tell me how one broken down train at Apperley Bridge has basically knocked out the entire Airedale and Wharfdale services?

I was at Ilkley for the 14:21 to Bradford Forster Square which was cancelled.

The next train at 14:51 was 25 minutes late and then subsequently held at Guiseley for 15 minutes due to the train heading towards Ilkley being on the same piece of track.

On arrival at Baildon the train was announced as being terminated at Shipley due to a fault.

The 15:58 Shipley - Bradford service was 20 minutes late, so after being at Ilkley train station from 2:11pm, over two hours and 15 minutes later we arrived at Bradford.

Madness.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
An interesting sight was the 158+153 combo working the Skipton train.

I don't think I've ever seen a 153 at Forster Square.
 
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From what I've heard and understand, a unit broke down in the Thackley Tunnel area and when they sent a rescue unit, they couldn't couple together. Don't know what happened after that though.

With them units blocking one line, I think others were being held in stations like Skipton and Leeds either waiting for crews or the line to clear. Didn't do us any good at Settle and beyond either as at Skipton the Bradford trains were occupying platforms 3 & 4, meaning the down line was blocked and the Armathwaites/Morecambes couldn't get to the station.
 

Eric

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From what I've heard and understand, a unit broke down in the Thackley Tunnel area and when they sent a rescue unit, they couldn't couple together. Don't know what happened after that though.

With them units blocking one line, I think others were being held in stations like Skipton and Leeds either waiting for crews or the line to clear. Didn't do us any good at Settle and beyond either as at Skipton the Bradford trains were occupying platforms 3 & 4, meaning the down line was blocked and the Armathwaites/Morecambes couldn't get to the station.

Couldn't those trains have used platform 2?

There were no trains at Ilkley for over an hour. When the delayed 14:51 finally set off some 25 minutes late the Leeds platform was pretty full.

I dread to think how everyone got on the two car 158 that passed us at Menston.
 

61653 HTAFC

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From what I've heard and understand, a unit broke down in the Thackley Tunnel area and when they sent a rescue unit, they couldn't couple together. Don't know what happened after that though.

With them units blocking one line, I think others were being held in stations like Skipton and Leeds either waiting for crews or the line to clear. Didn't do us any good at Settle and beyond either as at Skipton the Bradford trains were occupying platforms 3 & 4, meaning the down line was blocked and the Armathwaites/Morecambes couldn't get to the station.

Was this a technical problem or had someone sent a 32x to rescue a 333 or vice-versa? :lol:
 
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Couldn't those trains have used platform 2?

There were no trains at Ilkley for over an hour. When the delayed 14:51 finally set off some 25 minutes late the Leeds platform was pretty full.

I dread to think how everyone got on the two car 158 that passed us at Menston.

Looks like the 12:39 arrival from Leeds went into 3, but return working was cancelled so that was p3 blocked, p2 was occupied by the 13:17 to Leeds which is its normal booked move, then p4 was blocked by the 13:20 arrival from Bradford, 1330 return. This meant that the only free platforms were on the side where you can't cross back over from going north.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Was this a technical problem or had someone sent a 32x to rescue a 333 or vice-versa? :lol:

Presume it was a technical problem. There seem to be quite a number of 333s knocking about with demic couplers!
 

DarloRich

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Sorry. What I mean is how can one train cause so much disruption?

Sadly the heavy lift helicopters were unavailable so the train had to be rescued by conventional methods. :roll:

Have a think about the situation a little and come back. You could consider the physical environment, the trains used, the track layout and the signalling equipment.
 

Eric

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One of the Armathwaites?

Yeah, it could have been the case that with Skipton blocked the Leeds-Armathwaites ended up running on the triangle. There was also a pacer heading from Forster Square to Leeds.

I take it these class 333s aren't reliable?

I feel a bit guilty claiming delay repay, but yesterday's chaos did add an extra two hours onto my journey.
 

61653 HTAFC

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Yeah, it could have been the case that with Skipton blocked the Leeds-Armathwaites ended up running on the triangle. There was also a pacer heading from Forster Square to Leeds.

I take it these class 333s aren't reliable?

I feel a bit guilty claiming delay repay, but yesterday's chaos did add an extra two hours onto my journey.

I don't think they have a reputation for being unreliable but there have occasionally been clusters of faults with them in the past- doors went through a spate of failures a while back.
 

northernchris

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The 333s have been going through a bad patch recently, and they seem quite troublesome when they do fail! Yesterday was one of the worst though, even 5 hours after the failure there were delays in excess of 30 minutes and numerous cancellations across the evening peak. The way the diagrams are worked no doubt contributed, and I suspect with the tight turnarounds it won't take long for traincrew to end up out of position
 

61653 HTAFC

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The 333s have been going through a bad patch recently, and they seem quite troublesome when they do fail! Yesterday was one of the worst though, even 5 hours after the failure there were delays in excess of 30 minutes and numerous cancellations across the evening peak. The way the diagrams are worked no doubt contributed, and I suspect with the tight turnarounds it won't take long for traincrew to end up out of position

There was another thread recently which suggested one of the 333s is currently the Neville Hill Christmas Tree and has been for a while, so the fleet will have been stretched for a while. That said, the 322s should have provided some wiggle-room...
 

Bantamzen

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For the benefit of the OP, when there is a blockage on any section between Apperley Junction & Shipley / Guiseley, or between Shipley and Guiseley where able to services are diverted along an open section. So in the case of the other day, if Shipley - Leeds was blocked at Thackley, some Leeds bound services from Shipley will have been diverted up through Baildon to Guiseley, and then reverse back down towards Apperley Junc. A similar situation happened earlier in the week when the Apperley - Gusieley section had a signal fault, so Ilkley bound trains from Leeds diverted via Shipley & Baildon to reach Guiseley. And because both these diversions have single track sections, and additional paths across them lead to delays, and often services terminated short of the destination to allow the unit & crew to catch up with their scheduled diagramme. Of course this isn’t always possible, and as units operate across all the Aire / Wharfe routes during the day, a late running service on one has a knock on to the others quite quickly.

As for 333 reliability, it's been noticeable as of late that they are just starting to struggle a bit. A few units have had some issues with doors not closing / opening, A/C units failing, and has been mentioned 009 seems to be in a state of distress at Neville Hill, leaving Northern just 15 out of the 16 333s available. They are worked quite hard, and although the 321/322s not in use on the Wakefield line can and do provide relief, and help provide extra peak services, it's no surprise that the 333s are starting to suffer a bit, as well as look a little tired inside. The 331s can't come soon enough!
 

Eric

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For the benefit of the OP, when there is a blockage on any section between Apperley Junction & Shipley / Guiseley, or between Shipley and Guiseley where able to services are diverted along an open section. So in the case of the other day, if Shipley - Leeds was blocked at Thackley, some Leeds bound services from Shipley will have been diverted up through Baildon to Guiseley, and then reverse back down towards Apperley Junc. A similar situation happened earlier in the week when the Apperley - Gusieley section had a signal fault, so Ilkley bound trains from Leeds diverted via Shipley & Baildon to reach Guiseley. And because both these diversions have single track sections, and additional paths across them lead to delays, and often services terminated short of the destination to allow the unit & crew to catch up with their scheduled diagramme. Of course this isn’t always possible, and as units operate across all the Aire / Wharfe routes during the day, a late running service on one has a knock on to the others quite quickly.

As for 333 reliability, it's been noticeable as of late that they are just starting to struggle a bit. A few units have had some issues with doors not closing / opening, A/C units failing, and has been mentioned 009 seems to be in a state of distress at Neville Hill, leaving Northern just 15 out of the 16 333s available. They are worked quite hard, and although the 321/322s not in use on the Wakefield line can and do provide relief, and help provide extra peak services, it's no surprise that the 333s are starting to suffer a bit, as well as look a little tired inside. The 331s can't come soon enough!

Today I caught the train from Shipley to Bradford Forster Square and the door nearest the driver wouldn't open despite being illuminated.

Thankfully he opened the window and told me to use the next carriage.
 

Bantamzen

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Today I caught the train from Shipley to Bradford Forster Square and the door nearest the driver wouldn't open despite being illuminated.

Thankfully he opened the window and told me to use the next carriage.

A few months back I was travelling between Leeds and Shipley when the guard had a problem on set of doors on trying to despatch the train. After a bit of a struggle he managed to coax them shut, but obviously wanted to check that it wouldn't stick open again so he attempted to unlock the doors only to find the only set of doors now responding were the ones previously sticking. So the unit was failed and the entire passenger load detrained through the now one set of operating doors.
 

Ianigsy

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I always thought that the 333s were maintained by Siemens (possibly due to being given a Siemens branded fact sheet at the Neville Hill open day a few years back), in which case having one down on a semi-permanent basis would affect their agreed availability figures. It may be less of an issue with a full complement of the 321s and 322s, but if 009 has been stripped for spares then it could also end up as a handy testbed for any mid-life refurbishment that may be planned.
 

northernchris

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but if 009 has been stripped for spares then it could also end up as a handy testbed for any mid-life refurbishment that may be planned.

Went passed Neville Hill today and 009 is now missing its light clusters, although I seem to remember reading the 333s were getting 2+2 seating in the driving cards, so perhaps there is a refurb programme planned
 
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