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Broken phone - could not present e-ticket

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Tetchytyke

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Because he's passed his ticket to a friend is the obvious example.

The ticket is tied to a particular account on a particular phone. If the phone was knackered, nobody else could have used the ticket.

And deliberately pouring beer on your phone to cover that up is...unlikely.
 
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NB - the last time I was on a bus and was asked to show my ticket by an inspector must have been 50 years ago.....

In the last 50 odd years I've been asked twice for my ticket on a bus - within 30 minutes of one another and on different buses!
 

6Gman

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The ticket is tied to a particular account on a particular phone. If the phone was knackered, nobody else could have used the ticket.

And deliberately pouring beer on your phone to cover that up is...unlikely.

But can on-train staff check that? And how easy is it for back-office staff to check it?

Just have a ticket!
 

Tetchytyke

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And how easy is it for back-office staff to check it?

Very easy, as they're the ones who have to unlock the ticket and let you transfer it to a new phone if your old phone breaks. The ticket is tied to a specific phone.

It couldn't be checked on the train, I quite agree. But it can be checked by XC back office staff.

Alas, they outsource their decisions to TIL run by a charlatan who revels in screwing people over.
 

Clip

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Because unlike a paper ticket, he had to register for an account and the purchase of his electronic ticket is made against this account. I can't think of any other service you might buy online and have available on your phone but need to buy a new one with no way of transferring it to a different phone.

...

I wish people would stop pretending that there's any real point to these tickets - just because you can do something on your phone, doesn't mean that you should.

Why shouldnt I nor the many thousands who travel using such tickets every day?

To be honest the whole debate about tickets on yoru mobile phone has been done to death and its obvious that some people just dont want to give up their little orange bits of card so its worthless doing it again and again
 
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Clip

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Alas, they outsource their decisions to TIL run by a charlatan who revels in screwing people over.

TIL generally only do what the TOC has instructed them to do so maybe your anger should be more directed at the TOC then TIL?
 

mmh

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But can on-train staff check that? And how easy is it for back-office staff to check it?

They probably can't, but that doesn't mean it's an impossible problem to solve. In the past it was impossible to buy a ticket on board with a credit card, or ask for connection times without the guard consulting an enormous book. Both of those have been circumvented by technology, why can't this problem be?

If you can have an account with a train company, buy tickets with your account which if you collect from a machine may have your name printed on them, have your name on an electronic reservation display, get delay compensation automatically refunded to your bank account, logon to the train wifi for 'free" with a code emailed to you personally and buy a cup of tea with your debit card at the buffet, why not?

Just have a ticket!

Yes quite, a paper ticket. It's not right that all this technology only works in one direction. I'm increasingly biased because all my experiences of being behind people with non-paper tickets are bad. People faffing with home printouts, fiddling with phones, it's awful. BR tried and gave up the silly enormous airline boarding pass sized tickets, but now it's as if we never realised the advantage of a single format.
 

Gareth Marston

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Yes quite, a paper ticket. It's not right that all this technology only works in one direction. I'm increasingly biased because all my experiences of being behind people with non-paper tickets are bad. People faffing with home printouts, fiddling with phones, it's awful. BR tried and gave up the silly enormous airline boarding pass sized tickets, but now it's as if we never realised the advantage of a single format.

Many people believe erroneously that its easier or there getting a discount by doing it not realizing what there actually doing. Witness the hordes of Trainline purchasers with Full Price Off Peak and Anytime Tickets who have paid Booking Fee costs cruising up and down the network thinking they have got a bargain. Having believed they've saved money they often then descend on staff wanting customer service that the internet hasn't given them. It always amazes me just how duped these people are but they get very defensive when you point out they haven't saved or paid more. I suspect many people generally buy things on the internet because "perceived wisdom says its cheaper" .
 

PeterC

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SNIP

Yes quite, a paper ticket. It's not right that all this technology only works in one direction. I'm increasingly biased because all my experiences of being behind people with non-paper tickets are bad. People faffing with home printouts, fiddling with phones, it's awful. BR tried and gave up the silly enormous airline boarding pass sized tickets, but now it's as if we never realised the advantage of a single format.
/SNIP
I seldom use the train outside of the Oyster zones these days but I agree that the lack of a standard ticket format on online and print at home tickets is a pain. I have done a lot of front of house work at events and you get people handing you bundles of paperwork printed in an odd font or show their phones with the wrong part of the ticket visible. (We had a simple low tech back up in the form of a printed list of bookings but if you asked somebody their name they would just ignore you)
 

DavidGrain

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Years ago on the Radio 2 Jimmy Young show he used to have one day every week a lawyer on the show to answer listeners' questions. I remember one question was answered with the reply 'There is an old legal maxim in this case, Tough', In reply to the OP who for various reasons was unable to show a valid ticket on his mobile phone, my reply would be the same 'Tough'. Pay up and apologise.
 

LAX54

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Is this not the downside to technology and m-tickets ? (at least with an email ticket you'd print it off)

ahhh for the days of booking offices and real tickets !
 

Clip

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Haywain

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Is this not the downside to technology and m-tickets ? (at least with an email ticket you'd print it off)

ahhh for the days of booking offices and real tickets !
I'm inclined to think it might be the downside of getting drunk. After all, that seems to be the root cause of the OP's problem, and certainly can't be blamed on any pat of the railway.
 

6Gman

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I'm inclined to think it might be the downside of getting drunk. After all, that seems to be the root cause of the OP's problem, and certainly can't be blamed on any pat of the railway.

An astute point.
 

Nick66

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A paper ticket is as easy to lose as an e-ticket isn’t it? Especially if you’re drunk? I’ve only ever had one issue with an e-ticket and that was on VTEC; the guard (who I had seen several times and probably recognised me) just said “oh is our app playing up again?” The ticket was there I just couldn’t activate it
 

mmh

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A paper ticket is as easy to lose as an e-ticket isn’t it? Especially if you’re drunk? I’ve only ever had one issue with an e-ticket and that was on VTEC; the guard (who I had seen several times and probably recognised me) just said “oh is our app playing up again?” The ticket was there I just couldn’t activate it

I don't think they are as easy to lose. Paper tickets are likely to be put in a wallet, and I'd be willing to bet more phones are lost than wallets. A wallet stays in your pocket unless you're paying for something, phones are constantly played with by many people and left out on train tables or pub bars.
 

DavidGrain

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I don't think they are as easy to lose. Paper tickets are likely to be put in a wallet, and I'd be willing to bet more phones are lost than wallets. A wallet stays in your pocket unless you're paying for something, phones are constantly played with by many people and left out on train tables or pub bars.

Don't I know it. I lost a phone on a train in Austria last Saturday evening. I think because i was wearing a jacket and it was in my pocket and possibly the jacket pocket got turned over on the arm rest. Normally I don't wear a jacket and have the phone in my trouser pocket which is more secure. A kind lady in Austria found it and was able to make contact with my sister from the information on the phone, My sister made calls to friends in Austria who recovered it and another friend brought it back to me. I have never used an e- or m- ticket as I prefer to have a printed out piece of paper because even if the bar code does not scan it is usually still acceptable. Aircraft now are a different matter as no tickets are required at all. you just present your passport and you get a boarding card.
 

mmh

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Don't I know it. I lost a phone on a train in Austria last Saturday evening. I think because i was wearing a jacket and it was in my pocket and possibly the jacket pocket got turned over on the arm rest. Normally I don't wear a jacket and have the phone in my trouser pocket which is more secure. A kind lady in Austria found it and was able to make contact with my sister from the information on the phone, My sister made calls to friends in Austria who recovered it and another friend brought it back to me. I have never used an e- or m- ticket as I prefer to have a printed out piece of paper because even if the bar code does not scan it is usually still acceptable. Aircraft now are a different matter as no tickets are required at all. you just present your passport and you get a boarding card.

Glad to hear you got it back! I've lost 3 phones, and got two back. One in the back of a taxi, it must have fallen out of my pocket like yours - I'm usually very strict about which pocket everything goes in, but I suspect after a night out I'd put it in a jacket pocket. The next day the taxi office had it and point blank refused to take a little reward from me as a thank you.

Second time I had a phone you could put a message on the lock screen remotely, I did and a few hours later was phoned - someone had found it outside my front door!

I've never lost a wallet (well I have, but in a quite remarkable way that involves a story about why I'll always miss compartment trains!) or keys, I think we're perhaps more conditioned to take care of those.

There seem to be a lot of people who jump to the worst conclusion and assume every mistake or problem is deliberate. They really aren't.

I'll stand by what I've already said, if the railway wants to pretend you can have virtual tickets linked to your account and identity, it needs to make them work like where people are used to them, airlines. They don't make you buy a new ticket for Sydney to London if you turn up with a dead phone, but you need to buy a new ticket for London to Birmingham, say? Nonsense.

If you don't have the technology to do something properly, don't do it at all.
 
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Bletchleyite

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The key difference is that with a plane you are required to carry ID - usually a passport but a few others for domestic flights - and that is the key to your flight. Would people accept ID being required for train travel? And if they did, you're in the same position if you lose it.

We're a few years yet from the (slightly dystopian) idea of travel being associated with your facial biometric or somesuch.
 

LAX54

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Glad to hear you got it back! I've lost 3 phones, and got two back. One in the back of a taxi, it must have fallen out of my pocket like yours - I'm usually very strict about which pocket everything goes in, but I suspect after a night out I'd put it in a jacket pocket. The next day the taxi office had it and point blank refused to take a little reward from me as a thank you.

Second time I had a phone you could put a message on the lock screen remotely, I did and a few hours later was phoned - someone had found it outside my front door!

I've never lost a wallet (well I have, but in a quite remarkable way that involves a story about why I'll always miss compartment trains!) or keys, I think we're perhaps more conditioned to take care of those.

There seem to be a lot of people who jump to the worst conclusion and assume every mistake or problem is deliberate. They really aren't.

I'll stand by what I've already said, if the railway wants to pretend you can have virtual tickets linked to your account and identity, it needs to make them work like where people are used to them, airlines. They don't make you buy a new ticket for Sydney to London if you turn up with a dead phone, but you need to buy a new ticket for London to Birmingham, say? Nonsense.

If you don't have the technology to do something properly, don't do it at all.

But turn up at the Airport with no I.D on you, Passport / Driving Licence etc, then you are not going anywhere, and some internal flights now require a Passport to obtain a boarding card, which of course is a 'ticket' to board !
 

mmh

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But turn up at the Airport with no I.D on you, Passport / Driving Licence etc, then you are not going anywhere, and some internal flights now require a Passport to obtain a boarding card, which of course is a 'ticket' to board !

ID is to, err, identify someone to the accuracy you want. There are multiple ways of doing that, not all of which use physical documents. It'd be perfectly possible to ID someone for a train ticket satisfactarily just by a check of their details against a ticket purchase database. There are many identity checks that don't need photo ID.

You can turn up at an airport with no ID / Passport / Driving Licence. I've only used an electronic boarding pass once (and I probably won't again, I didn't really like it) for a trip that needs no ID, and none was checked in either direction. If I'd turned up and I'd lost my phone I really doubt they'd just have left me there somehow, they'd have identified me in other, slower, ways and given me a physical boarding pass.
 

Clip

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ID is to, err, identify someone to the accuracy you want. There are multiple ways of doing that, not all of which use physical documents. It'd be perfectly possible to ID someone for a train ticket satisfactarily just by a check of their details against a ticket purchase database. There are many identity checks that don't need photo ID.

You can turn up at an airport with no ID / Passport / Driving Licence. I've only used an electronic boarding pass once (and I probably won't again, I didn't really like it) for a trip that needs no ID, and none was checked in either direction. If I'd turned up and I'd lost my phone I really doubt they'd just have left me there somehow, they'd have identified me in other, slower, ways and given me a physical boarding pass.
Such a silly comparison because a lot of airlines now charge you for reprinting your boarding pass.

We get it - you dont like mobile tickets - youre in luck as there doesnt seem to be such a rush as of yet to get rid of your precious little bits of orange card just yet.
I don't think they are as easy to lose. Paper tickets are likely to be put in a wallet, and I'd be willing to bet more phones are lost than wallets. A wallet stays in your pocket unless you're paying for something, phones are constantly played with by many people and left out on train tables or pub bars.
You would think so but i assure you they get lost all the time - just look here https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/gwr-penalty-fare-few-questions-wrong-details-wrong-fare.162988/ - and believe me people can lose them by even having their nice safe and secure wallet being lifted or from falling out of a pocket. its true but i know you just dont want to believe it because its hard to change habits.
 

najaB

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If I'd turned up and I'd lost my phone I really doubt they'd just have left me there somehow, they'd have identified me in other, slower, ways and given me a physical boarding pass.
Depending on the airline, they would've charged you anything up to £80 for the privilege.
 

sarahj

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Here is a new one for you. Punter on train. Oh cannot print out my ticket. No problem, says I and checks his code. Almost valid, yes the route, but not the date, valid yesterday. Oh says punter, hold on and faffs with phone, I don't have the ticket for today, hold on....oh cannot download it. Train is arriving into Lewes and I'm off to Seaford while the punter 'wants' Eastbourne. He says he can download it at Lewes.mmmm, but don't have the time to argue as I'm off to Seaford. Go to Seaford, go back to Brighton, and then back to Seaford and guess who is back on the train. Says he forgot his coat/bag whatever and had to go back for it. Still has not downloaded his ticket, can only do it at Lewes. Why not now says I, not got the tariff says he. So, you buy your tickets online says I, but youve not got the phone or tariff to open the e-mail. Cue sheepish, but once again, arriving into Lewes where he is getting off. Well really. (best one of the day was the guy who claimed he boarded at Shoreham, as the train was pulling into Shoreham. Said it twice as well. Told him I'd be back to check again, once we left Shoreham, came back, not there, moved. Found him, sat down right in front...Right, lets start again. Portslade....OK...:s)
 

6Gman

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ID is to, err, identify someone to the accuracy you want. There are multiple ways of doing that, not all of which use physical documents. It'd be perfectly possible to ID someone for a train ticket satisfactarily just by a check of their details against a ticket purchase database. There are many identity checks that don't need photo ID.

Since the railway can't get its on-train reservation systems, PIS screens or automatic announcements to work consistently I suspect the chances of Joe Guard being able to verify your identity for ticket purposes from a database in real time on a 323 between Homes Chapel and Goostrey on a Saturday night are slightly lower than the chances of me scoring a last minute try to secure next year's 6 Nations title for Wales.

:D
 

6Gman

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Here is a new one for you. Punter on train. Oh cannot print out my ticket. No problem, says I and checks his code. Almost valid, yes the route, but not the date, valid yesterday. Oh says punter, hold on and faffs with phone, I don't have the ticket for today, hold on....oh cannot download it. Train is arriving into Lewes and I'm off to Seaford while the punter 'wants' Eastbourne. He says he can download it at Lewes.mmmm, but don't have the time to argue as I'm off to Seaford. Go to Seaford, go back to Brighton, and then back to Seaford and guess who is back on the train. Says he forgot his coat/bag whatever and had to go back for it. Still has not downloaded his ticket, can only do it at Lewes. Why not now says I, not got the tariff says he. So, you buy your tickets online says I, but youve not got the phone or tariff to open the e-mail. Cue sheepish, but once again, arriving into Lewes where he is getting off. Well really. (best one of the day was the guy who claimed he boarded at Shoreham, as the train was pulling into Shoreham. Said it twice as well. Told him I'd be back to check again, once we left Shoreham, came back, not there, moved. Found him, sat down right in front...Right, lets start again. Portslade....OK...:s)

And someone on here would no doubt blame the railway's primitive technology for it ... 8-)
 

PeterC

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Since the railway can't get its on-train reservation systems, PIS screens or automatic announcements to work consistently I suspect the chances of Joe Guard being able to verify your identity for ticket purposes from a database in real time on a 323 between Homes Chapel and Goostrey on a Saturday night are slightly lower than the chances of me scoring a last minute try to secure next year's 6 Nations title for Wales.

:D
The arts centre where I volunteer has given up scanning e-tickets and gone back to printed check lists as wi-fi couldn't be relied on across all rooms in an 1930s listed building. I wouldn't even think about checking tickets in real time on a moving train.
 
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