Evidence that a person has purchased a ticket should be an absolute defense to any prosecution that rests on the basis that they couldn't present a ticket. This entirely solves the "I left my ticket at home", "my phone's broken", etc, problem. If the railways discover that it's too easy to provide a defense that the prosecutor can't successfully attack... perhaps they need to upgrade their ticketing standards. Maybe with this new-fangled e-ticketing system they've heard so much about.
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Broken phone - could not present e-ticket
- Thread starter warnerbro
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That's unworkable as I could purchase a ticket and give it to me mate to use on the same journey and say I left it at home and then show them after I had purchased it.
The bylaws and railway offences have been around since way before privatisation and they seem to have worked for all that time
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Two people travel on one ticket. If the one with the ticket gets checked, no problems. If the one without the ticket gets checked, no problems - just send in the proof of purchase after the fact.
DavidGrain
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The offense is travelling whilst not in possession of a valid ticket. This is an absolute offense i.e that the prosecution does not have to prove intent.
AlterEgo
Veteran Member
This makes no sense...so if I show the prosecuting team a bank statement or receipt showing I bought a ticket:
a) how do they know which ticket?
b) how do they know I haven’t refunded it?
c) how do they know I didn’t give it to someone else?
d) how do they know I didn’t sell it?
e) how do they know I’m entitled to use that ticket?
Gareth Marston
Established Member
I've already seen people trying to travel with screenshots of e tickets that they say "have been bought for them by a friend" unfortunately it's just another interface where someone will try it on.
So I took the initial advice on here and sent a grovelling letter in response begrudgingly and I have been able to pay £100 to prevent the matter going to court. Thanks for the help.
I will however be writing a letter of complaint to the train company as I find it pretty unfair that I had bought an e-ticket for the first time ever (used cross country hundreds of times) and due to my phone being broken and the barriers being up at the station I was immediately faced with the possibility of prosecution. As people have said on here why even have the option of e-tickets that in any other scenario you would be able to evidence you had purchased in the event you might not be able to produce it.
All this seems to be is a money making scheme and out dated laws that were introduced before technology. It’s funny how they can validate your identity on the train but not the fact that you bought an e-ticket.
I will however be writing a letter of complaint to the train company as I find it pretty unfair that I had bought an e-ticket for the first time ever (used cross country hundreds of times) and due to my phone being broken and the barriers being up at the station I was immediately faced with the possibility of prosecution. As people have said on here why even have the option of e-tickets that in any other scenario you would be able to evidence you had purchased in the event you might not be able to produce it.
All this seems to be is a money making scheme and out dated laws that were introduced before technology. It’s funny how they can validate your identity on the train but not the fact that you bought an e-ticket.
Also to add my new 26-30 railcard is e-ticket only. Good job I didn’t have that at the time otherwise I might have faced ever higher expense. No doubt much to the glee of those running these companies. Update your technology to fit the product you are offering.
How about you start by taking care of your phone.
So someone taking it out of your hands in the middle of a public space and preceding to smash it on the floor is classed as not taking care of it? I guess you’re so wise you don’t bother and only use orange card tickets and a land line telephone?
Never had a phone stolen nor lost one nor broken one. Never lost a train ticket AFAICR.
Whether you choose to use an electronic ticket or a paper ticket, if you can't look after it, expect to have to pay again and maybe even pay a penalty for attempting to travel without the necessary authority to travel. I suspect that any TOC would expect the same but if you insist on sending them a 'letter of complaint', if they respond, it might be to remind you of the contract that you enter into when choosing to travel as many here have done.
With respect, I suggest that if you haven't been mugged it might be better not to gloat about never having had a phone stolen. One of my sons had the misfortune to have that happen and it shook him very badly. There are some things in life that you sadly can't prevent happening, unless you never ever go out.
No, but that's not the railway's fault, nor concern. If I have cash stolen from me it's rubbish but it's not the bank's fault.
I can't speak for others but I'd never claim that I've never lost anything. But, equally, I accept that if I lose something then I'll be out of pocket - if I can get a refund then happy days, otherwise s*** happens.
If it were an e-ticket, I would agree. However very few (no?) TOCs currently issue E-tickets, they issue m-tickets which are very different things.
Fair point - well made
Whatever the ticketing type, there has always been a substantial amount of 'trying it on' as Gareth says.
This is undoubtedly why the guidance from Ministry of Justice to Crown Prosecution Service (and therefore all TOC prosecutors too) is clear and reads as follows:
'Fare Evasion
This is the principal form of dishonesty to affect public transport. The fact that it is widespread is a relevant public interest factor. Remember also the general principles covering prosecution for all offences of dishonesty.'
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