Budget 2020 - Anything for Rail?

[sprunt]

Has there been an explicit budget announcement that “rail fares are going to be increased in real terms to help finance all the investment” or similar?

That's the status quo isn't it? The annual RPI+1% rise. An explicit announcement would be needed if this were no longer going to be the case.

 

[Cardiff123]

We also had black and white TV with 2 channels, outside lavatories, poor healthcare and relatively low life expectancy up to the 60s then developments thereafter massively improved all of these things. Ordinarily with evolution you evolve into a better place, not regress to a place you were previously.

I'm not suggesting 'regressing' back to the 1960s. But it cannot be denied that if we still had the extensive rail network in the UK that we had in the 1950s & 60s it wouldn't be needed to travel to so many places by car.

I also fail to see how replacing environmentally friendly electric trams and buses with fossil fuel buses in the 1960s was 'progress'. Now many councils are trying to reverse these policy mistakes and reintroduce electric trams and buses to city centres again, Cardiff being a good example.

But we have strayed off topic now, but the original intention of my original post was to highlight that we are in a climate crisis that is now having very real effects on the UK with the recent mild winter, and the winter storms and floods, and there is a very urgent need to reduce car usage and invest in public transport to reduce pollution and overall carbon emissions.
Rising fuel duty was being considered for this budget but after a revolt from Tory MPs over hitting "hard working motorists" it was abandoned. At some point the bullet will have to be bitten.

 

[Mikey C]

I'm not suggesting 'regressing' back to the 1960s. But it cannot be denied that if we still had the extensive rail network in the UK that we had in the 1950s & 60s it wouldn't be needed to travel to so many places by car.

I also fail to see how replacing environmentally friendly electric trams and buses with fossil fuel buses in the 1960s was 'progress'. Now many councils are trying to reverse these policy mistakes and reintroduce electric trams and buses to city centres again, Cardiff being a good example.

But we have strayed off topic now, but the original intention of my original post was to highlight that we are in a climate crisis that is now having very real effects on the UK with the recent mild winter, and the winter storms and floods, and there is a very urgent need to reduce car usage and invest in public transport to reduce pollution and overall carbon emissions.
Rising fuel duty was being considered for this budget but after a revolt from Tory MPs over hitting "hard working motorists" it was abandoned. At some point the bullet will have to be bitten.

Petrol is massively taxed already, as taxes went up significantly in the 90s, so it can hardly be said that the motorists aren't already being heavily targeted

Especially as unlike with public transport, you also have to pay 20% VAT on top (and indeed 20% VAT on the fuel duty!)

 

[Dr Hoo]

That's the status quo isn't it? The annual RPI+1% rise. An explicit announcement would be needed if this were no longer going to be the case.

I thought that the ‘+1%’ (‘real’) element had been dropped in recent years, hence my original question (about whether the Budget speech had heralded a change in policy).

 

[ashkeba]

Petrol is massively taxed already, as taxes went up significantly in the 90s, so it can hardly be said that the motorists aren't already being heavily targeted

Especially as unlike with public transport, you also have to pay 20% VAT on top (and indeed 20% VAT on the fuel duty!)

But motorists don't normally pay track access charges or business rates on most stabling, so are they really "heavily targeted"?

 

[cactustwirly]

But motorists don't normally pay track access charges or business rates on most stabling, so are they really "heavily targeted"?

You still have to pay VED (which was £300 for my car this year), plus some roads have tolls.
Plus a lot of areas you need to pay for parking, either through a permit or at a car park.

For a lot of people, public transport is incovenient, or non existent, therefore a car is necessary to get to work, go to the supermarket etc.

 

[AndrewE]

You still have to pay VED (which was £300 for my car this year), plus some roads have tolls.
Plus a lot of areas you need to pay for parking, either through a permit or at a car park.
For a lot of people, public transport is inconvenient, or non existent, therefore a car is necessary to get to work, go to the supermarket etc.

Some people around here walk or get a bus to the supermarket and a taxi home. A car isn't "necessary." Bikes are also used for both shopping and commuting.

 

[Dai Corner]

Some people around here walk or get a bus to the supermarket and a taxi home. A car isn't "necessary." Bikes are also used for both shopping and commuting.

Some people are content to limit their shopping, work, education and social lives to places they can walk or get a bus to. Others have wider horizons.

 

[cactustwirly]

Some people around here walk or get a bus to the supermarket and a taxi home. A car isn't "necessary." Bikes are also used for both shopping and commuting.

I live in a village where there aren't any buses to any supermarkets, Taxis are also very expensive (plus no more environmentally friendly than your own car). Plus the supermarkets aren't within cycling distance, and are barely useful for a few things, let alone a whole weeks worth of shopping! So a car is clearly neccessary.

As for commuting to work, not very practical, especially if you have a 10-15 mile commute.
You'd end up getting to work, sweaty and exhausted, and with mild hyperthermia if you did it in the winter, plus cycling in the ice is lethal!

Overall, I'm yet to be convinced, a car isn't necessary for a lot of people.
Yes if you live and work in the same city with good transport links, then yes I agree a car isn't necessary

 

[The Ham]

I live in a village where there aren't any buses to any supermarkets, Taxis are also very expensive (plus no more environmentally friendly than your own car). Plus the supermarkets aren't within cycling distance, and are barely useful for a few things, let alone a whole weeks worth of shopping! So a car is clearly neccessary.

As for commuting to work, not very practical, especially if you have a 10-15 mile commute.
You'd end up getting to work, sweaty and exhausted, and with mild hyperthermia if you did it in the winter, plus cycling in the ice is lethal!

Overall, I'm yet to be convinced, a car isn't necessary for a lot of people.
Yes if you live and work in the same city with good transport links, then yes I agree a car isn't necessary

85% of the population live in urban areas (definition a settlement with over 10,000 people), as such those in the rural areas (who do generally need a car more typically than those in urban areas) are very much in the minority.

As such there are a lot of people who could fairly easily reduce their reliance on cars.

For those in rural areas (and therefore more likely to have a private drive than those in terraced house in a city) it would be fairly practical to have an electric car for most of their travel. As such an increase in fuel dirty would result in a faster switch to electric vehicles than would be the case without an increase.

Now whist fuel dirty rose a lot in the 90's, however that's over 20 years ago and inflation has eroded this significantly.

 

[Bald Rick]

Getting back on topic... One of the few specific rail commitments Rishi Sunak made was to proceed with Cambridge South station. Does anyone know how far advanced the plans for that are? Any sense of timescales before we could start actually building the station?

It has yet to go past the ‘Decision to Design’ stage, and as such it is highly unusual for the Government to fund the project through to completion. Someone in the Treasury must have been willing to take the risk on the estimate. However it is the project in the East of England that is closest to being shovel ready, and it does give the local Mayor a boost, and whilst he is not up for election until next year, the whole of Cambridge City Council is up this May. I’m sure that is a coincidence.

 

[The Ham]

the whole of Cambridge City Council is up this May. I’m sure that is a coincidence.

Maybe, elections might be delayed according to latest news stories:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-51861140

The England and Wales polling watchdog has recommended delaying May's local elections until the autumn to "mitigate" the impact of coronavirus.

The Electoral Commission said there were "growing risks to the delivery of the polls", with the number of infections in the outbreak rising.

 

[Grumpy Git]

............... elections might be delayed according to latest news stories: ......

Same as Crossrail then.

 

[superjohn]

Big, shouty numbers and very little by way of specifics was the impression I got yesterday. I can see it all unraveling over the next few weeks. Much in the same way as “40 new hospitals” and “Reversing Beeching”.

Team Boris clearly has a winning formula and Sunak is very much on message with it.

 

[Bald Rick]

Maybe, elections might be delayed according to latest news stories:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-51861140

That wouldn’t have been known when the budget statement was written (last week).

 

[PG]

More like prioritising redecorating your front room and main bedrooms, but leaving alone the hall, stairs, landing and spare room as you'd see less benefit if you spent your finite amount of cash in those less used locations.

Yet which areas (spare room excepted) have the heaviest traffic flow?

If the threadbare stairs carpet causes you to trip and fall your rooms may look bonnie but you cannae get there with your leg in plaster...

 

[DynamicSpirit]

Rail Technology Magazine have quoted this from the budget for Tyne and Wear:

The Tyne and Wear Metro will specifically receive £104m from the Government’s Transforming Cities Fund, with Government contributing £95m towards the total cost. The Metro Flow project will see an existing freight line developed and electrified in South Tyneside from September 2022, making it capable of carrying Metro services, boosting the capacity for an extra 30,000 passenger journeys every day.

Anyone know what that's about? What line would they be talking about?

 

[Ianno87]

Rail Technology Magazine have quoted this from the budget for Tyne and Wear:



Anyone know what that's about? What line would they be talking about?

The Tyne dock single line that parallels the South Shields route; effectively making it a second Metro track to boost the existing single line.

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

Maybe, elections might be delayed according to latest news stories:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-51861140

Yup mayoral and local elections deferred for a year

 

[swt_passenger]

Rail Technology Magazine have quoted this from the budget for Tyne and Wear:



Anyone know what that's about? What line would they be talking about?

A dedicated thread is here:
https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/t-w-metro-given-£103m-additional-funding-in-budget-2020.201929/
I posted a link to quite a decent video about the single line issue.

 

[swt_passenger]

The Tyne dock single line that parallels the South Shields route; effectively making it a second Metro track to boost the existing single line.

The Jarrow Oil terminal is a separate site to Tyne Dock, the latter has the branch (now partially doubled) from the Sunderland line near Brockley Whins, with connections in either direction now. The Tyne Dock branch crosses over the Metro when it is in a tunnel, just west of Tyne Dock station.

The NR route towards Jarrow is off the NR down line at Pelaw.

 

[DynamicSpirit]

A dedicated thread is here:
https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/t-w-metro-given-£103m-additional-funding-in-budget-2020.201929/
I posted a link to quite a decent video about the single line issue.

Thanks!

 

[BrianW]

I seem to recall a small number of new stations (Cambridge South, Cottam Parkway and Magna), a small number of station 'improvements' (Darlington, Halifax and Stoke-on-Trent) and 12 stations to become 'accessible'. So a long wait for them.
If I remember right ... Bishop Auckland, Blackpool South, Blyth Valley, Darlington, Don Valley, Rother Valley, Sedgefield, Stockton South, Stoke-on-Trent Central and Stoke-on-Trent North all went 'blue' in December.
Some coincidence surely. Looking out for more in the Spending Review.