Bus 48 Northwich - Frodsham

[TheGrandWazoo]

I don't think the demand would be there for high frequency or anything like that but using 1 bus, I think a 70 minute frequency would be doable.
I think that Northwich could be a good connection point for passengers and it has some of the bigger shops which Runcorn doesn't have. Also home to John Dene college which has a college bus from the Runcorn area.
You then have Winnington Urban Village which has thousands of homes. These people all work somewhere. Barton I think does have some people travelling to Runcorn. This isn't fully seen though because it's car traffic.
Barton to Preston Brook is basically no demand, I agree.
Preston Brook has a lot of businesses employing a lot of people and a decent amount would live in the Northwich area. Join the busway then at Brookvale and you could get some demand there from shorter distance passengers hopping to Halton Lea.

On the face of it, it may not seem like a huge opportunity but it has a lot of existing short distance flows to protect the service and hopefully make it viable quicker. You are then linking a town to a fair size employment zone. You finally are linking 2 towns where the demand is not fully seen because there is no public transport. Halton Hospital is also closer to Barton than Leighton Hosp so that may work in their favour for some health demand. I know Victoria Infirmary doesn't do much and Leighton might be the main but it's always worth remembering the minor hospitals which offer a decent amount of services. You could probably finally add that Northwich to Liverpool demand could be added onto that so by changing buses once in Runcorn, people can be in Liverpool in 90 minutes or so which could be a bit more demand (Airport similarly is accessible by changing once at Halton Lea).
Connections, Medical/Health links, Commuter links, College links. That is a fair amount of demand there. I can see why you would say there doesn't seem like much demand and off face value, it doesn't seem like it but as you delve deeper, there is a good few areas for demand, it just needs to be done properly and not just put a service on for the sake of it and then scrap it because no one is using it. You need to put money and effort into the service for it to work.

Think you'll struggle to cover 12 miles in c.30 mins especially between Barnton and Northwich and the loop around the town centre, especially with the junction/lights over the Weaver.

Unfortunately, Leighton Hospital is where you tend to be referred to rather than Halton because of the hospital trust.

I've not had a wander round Northwich for a few years but when I lived there, it was a draw for people from Winsford but it's nothing exceptional.

 

[markymark2000]

Think you'll struggle to cover 12 miles in c.30 mins especially between Barnton and Northwich and the loop around the town centre, especially with the junction/lights over the Weaver.

Unfortunately, Leighton Hospital is where you tend to be referred to rather than Halton because of the hospital trust.

I've not had a wander round Northwich for a few years but when I lived there, it was a draw for people from Winsford but it's nothing exceptional.

Maybe 1 bus for a 90 min service then. I think it could be possible to do but maybe a little tight. I haven't done proper calculations on it, it was a rough guess, I admit.

Northwich doesn't have a huge amount but it does have some bigger named stores which aren't in Runcorn. That said, the bulk of the leisure flow would be Northwich to Runcorn since Runcorn has better shops overall I would say. Depends on your age that one.

As for medical, I can see why people may be sent more to Leighton and I get that, doesn't mean you can discount Halton Hosp entirely though. Depends on what is offered in each area. No full research on that but I know that putting trusts aside, people are moved from major hospitals to more minor ones if they are in a stable condition and don't need much assistance but it's still too bad for them to be at home. I know that's happened in Chester with the Countess and Cottage (Ellesmere Port) hospitals.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Maybe 1 bus for a 90 min service then. I think it could be possible to do but maybe a little tight. I haven't done proper calculations on it, it was a rough guess, I admit.

Northwich doesn't have a huge amount but it does have some bigger named stores which aren't in Runcorn. That said, the bulk of the leisure flow would be Northwich to Runcorn since Runcorn has better shops overall I would say. Depends on your age that one.

As for medical, I can see why people may be sent more to Leighton and I get that, doesn't mean you can discount Halton Hosp entirely though. Depends on what is offered in each area. No full research on that but I know that putting trusts aside, people are moved from major hospitals to more minor ones if they are in a stable condition and don't need much assistance but it's still too bad for them to be at home. I know that's happened in Chester with the Countess and Cottage (Ellesmere Port) hospitals.

Have to say that, when I lived there, I'd not have considered going to Runcorn for anything

Seriously, I did have hospital appointments and it was Leighton as it's Mid Cheshire NHS. As for shopping, if I was going out of the area, I would usually head to Chester. That said, never used the 82 and always drove

 

[markymark2000]

Have to say that, when I lived there, I'd not have considered going to Runcorn for anything

Seriously, I did have hospital appointments and it was Leighton as it's Mid Cheshire NHS. As for shopping, if I was going out of the area, I would usually head to Chester. That said, never used the 82 and always drove

That's fair. I think any bus would be held up primerilly by the college and Preston Brook workers but you would want a service inbetween as I know there will be people wanting to travel for leisure reasons.

 

[frodshamfella]

Are you on about the 48 or the Runcorn to Northwich route?



Delamere Park was unserved for years. The only bus they had for a while was a morning 82B going to Northwich (no return service showing though)


I while while it may be useful for that, running to Runcorn station is quite an extension compared to the natural 'centre' which would be Halton Lea. Not sure quite sure if the revenue would cover the costs of the extension.
If the 85 wasn't advertised, I do wonder if that is why it didn't do so well.

Could well be, I don't think the stops were reinstated at the bus laybys, certainly didn't see timetables. Its a pity.

 

[TheSel]

I am surprised that a Runcorn to Northwich bus hasn't come about in recent times. I think it has potential really.

28 January 1984, Crosville's Northwich based ERL259 working the 1309 Runcorn - Northwich service. Sorry it's taken me a while to find it.

 

[Llandudno]

28 January 1984, Crosville's Northwich based ERL259 working the 1309 Runcorn - Northwich service. Sorry it's taken me a while to find it.

View attachment 87954

Cracking photo!

Looks as though there is even one passenger on board!

 

[frodshamfella]

28 January 1984, Crosville's Northwich based ERL259 working the 1309 Runcorn - Northwich service. Sorry it's taken me a while to find it.

View attachment 87954

That is just legendary, I'm trying to work out where abouts it is.

 

[TheSel]

That is just legendary, I'm trying to work out where abouts it is.

That's very kind of you - thanks.

As for exactly where the shot is taken, it's on Shutley Lane - OS map ref (SJ)620768, 100 yards or so after turning right at Crumleyheath Farm.

According to Google Maps, the scene hadn't changed a great deal up to their last photo, which seems undated.

Google Maps

Find local businesses, view maps and get driving directions in Google Maps.

www.google.com

Sorry for going off topic with the shot of the H44. Originally you were asking about the Northwich - Frodsham service. Here's a picture of Crosville (Northwich depot) SNG380 working the E48 on 11 August 1984. Almost certainly the 0920 off Frodsham. A nice Triumph GT6 visible in the background, too!

 

[frodshamfella]

That's very kind of you - thanks.

As for exactly where the shot is taken, it's on Shutley Lane - OS map ref (SJ)620768, 100 yards or so after turning right at Crumleyheath Farm.

According to Google Maps, the scene hadn't changed a great deal up to their last photo, which seems undated.

Google Maps

Find local businesses, view maps and get driving directions in Google Maps.

www.google.com

Sorry for going off topic with the shot of the H44. Originally you were asking about the Northwich - Frodsham service. Here's a picture of Crosville (Northwich depot) SNG380 working the E48 on 11 August 1984. Almost certainly the 0920 off Frodsham. A nice Triumph GT6 visible in the background, too!

View attachment 88063

I know exactly where that is, in fact I've just drove along that road, its near the Travellers Rest on way out of Frodsham. No good looking for the 48 today...Saturday!

Ive worked out now where the H44 is too, I realised the service didn't run directly alone the main road from Dutton to Barton, but served Little Leigh area too. The is still a bus shelter in Shutley Lane.

I think we also had n.o 66 through here, all be it on Tuesdays only . Operated by Halton Community Transport. I dont however think it serves Northwich via Dutton and Barnton any longer.

That's very kind of you - thanks.

As for exactly where the shot is taken, it's on Shutley Lane - OS map ref (SJ)620768, 100 yards or so after turning right at Crumleyheath Farm.

According to Google Maps, the scene hadn't changed a great deal up to their last photo, which seems undated.

Google Maps

Find local businesses, view maps and get driving directions in Google Maps.

www.google.com

Sorry for going off topic with the shot of the H44. Originally you were asking about the Northwich - Frodsham service. Here's a picture of Crosville (Northwich depot) SNG380 working the E48 on 11 August 1984. Almost certainly the 0920 off Frodsham. A nice Triumph GT6 visible in the background, too!

View attachment 88063

May I ask if you know what service operated along Tarporley Road (a49) passing Whitley. I know there has been a bus, Im pretty sure the bus stops are actually still in place, but no bus service for some time. I imagine Warrington must have been one destination.

 

[TheSel]

May I ask if you know what service operated along Tarporley Road (a49) passing Whitley. I know there has been a bus, Im pretty sure the bus stops are actually still in place, but no bus service for some time. I imagine Warrington must have been one destination.

That was the 43 & 44 Warrington - Northwich. Joint Warrington Borough Transport & North Western Road Car until NWRC was split up and the Northwich area passed to Crosville, when the route became joint Warrington Borough Transport & Crosville.

Here is a map from the 'Crosville No 2 Area Timetable, 7 May 1972 - 5 May 1973'. Not great in terms of scale, but it illustrates the point. I've made a point of including the Frodsham & Helsby area for you too.



As you'll see, from Warrington all services ran south through Stockton Heath to Stretton - what is now Junction 10 of the M56. The 43 and 44 stayed on the A49, while the 45 and 46 took the A559 - and then soon diverged.

As far as I know, Higher & Lower Whitley were not served - not by the 1970's anyway - but as you say, buses passed along the A49.

Please find attached timetables from 1972 and 1984. The handwritten notes on the 1984 edition are my own notes identifying which operator worked which journeys.

1972 Timetable:



1984 Timetable:



Sunday service has gone, but the Monday - Saturday service is broadly the same with an hourly headway across the four routes.

The nearest I can come up with for a picture on that stretch of the A49 is this one of Warrington's East Lancs bodied Bristol RE 73 - LED73P at Bartington Lane Ends, so about a mile south of Lower Whitley. The Austin Maxi in the background is crossing the A49, heading along the A533 towards Runcorn.



Hope this helps.

 

[frodshamfella]

Thanks very much. It really illustrates the decline in bus services in my area. I suppose this has been replicated all over the UK with respect to rural services.

Another great photo too, thanks.


I have just re studied the map you attached, I am really amazed to see how many routes there were and how better connected the area was. It appears there was even a bus service to Aston village , it looks like route J20. I think i would like to obtain a map/timetable from the past myself to study.

 

[jp4712]

In North Western days, it was even better - the map below is from September 1968.

 

[TheSel]

In North Western days, it was even better - the map below is from September 1968.

Fantastic! Many thanks for sharing.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

As for exactly where the shot is taken, it's on Shutley Lane - OS map ref (SJ)620768, 100 yards or so after turning right at Crumleyheath Farm.

According to Google Maps, the scene hadn't changed a great deal up to their last photo, which seems undated.

I thought it was somewhere round Little Leigh - just had that "feel" about it. Thanks for sharing these super shots

 

[frodshamfella]

Fantastic! Many thanks for sharing.

Wow so many bus routes available . Noticed the route to Acton Cliff, that's now 1school day service morning and evening.

 

[jp4712]

In fairness, in 1968 that’s all Acton Cliffe got then too!

 

[daodao]

In North Western days, it was even better - the map below is from September 1968.

A fascinating map, showing NWRCC's extensive coverage of Cheshire, but even then, many of their services were not daily. Some routes have survived, but sadly bus route the Dunham bus service (formerly NWRCC routes 98/98A), for which special buses were built in the 1960s to fit under the canal bridge there, was withdrawn (as Warrington route 5) less than a month ago.