Bus corona statistics outside London?

[Geordie driver]

Hi all, 2 drivers from the ( not very big ) depot where I used to work in Newcastle have died in the last week from corona virus. Nearly half the depot is off either because they have had contact or are ill themselves.

There has been no acknowledgement of this on the company's Facebook page, any questions about who is enforcing the mask rules are either ignored or deleted, as is how many fines have been issued.

Are there any statistics being issued by anyone about all this?

 

[Trackman]

Sad to hear about that.
I know around 50 London bus drivers have died so far.
Your best bet is googling.
Also check the Union pages, they might have some stats.

 

[Geordie driver]

Well yes, I did google this before asking on here, I have now checked the union pages and can find nothing outside London. Companies are ( erroneously) citing data protection as a reason not to release figures.

 

[Darandio]

There has been no acknowledgement of this on the company's Facebook page

They have released two recent statements to the press about it though.

 

[Bantamzen]

Hi all, 2 drivers from the ( not very big ) depot where I used to work in Newcastle have died in the last week from corona virus. Nearly half the depot is off either because they have had contact or are ill themselves.

There has been no acknowledgement of this on the company's Facebook page, any questions about who is enforcing the mask rules are either ignored or deleted, as is how many fines have been issued.

Are there any statistics being issued by anyone about all this?

You seem to be looking for data that may not be found in one place, or indeed held at all. In terms of the impact of isolation / illness / death on staffing, your company probably does hold that but may not obliged to release. In this case I would suggest your union as a route to getting some more detail. As for enforcement, I don't know your company's policy on this but I'm not sure what data you hope to gleam from it? Enforcement is probably not a mandate, as exceptions exist in law meaning that some passengers will be travelling without masks & enforcement by employees is difficult to impossible. Finally as for fines, your company will not hold this information, that will be held by the local Police forces. You might be able to gleam out overall figures for numbers issued, but don't expect to find out where & why as that almost certainly will not be available.

 

[Geordie driver]

They have released two recent statements to the press about it though.

Thanks for that, no one reads the Chronicle now, I was unaware they had released these statements.

You seem to be looking for data that may not be found in one place, or indeed held at all. In terms of the impact of isolation / illness / death on staffing, your company probably does hold that but may not obliged to release. In this case I would suggest your union as a route to getting some more detail. As for enforcement, I don't know your company's policy on this but I'm not sure what data you hope to gleam from it? Enforcement is probably not a mandate, as exceptions exist in law meaning that some passengers will be travelling without masks & enforcement by employees is difficult to impossible. Finally as for fines, your company will not hold this information, that will be held by the local Police forces. You might be able to gleam out overall figures for numbers issued, but don't expect to find out where & why as that almost certainly will not be available.

Thankyou for your reply.

Simple fact is no one is enforcing the mask rules, the police don't care, management don't leave their office,, skip rat kids on local social media laughing openly at driver deaths and a company that has done it's usual cut every corner approach to driver safety. Companies may not be mandated to enforce the rules, so they don't, cut EVERY corner.

 

[Bantamzen]

Thanks for that, no one reads the Chronicle now, I was unaware they had released these statements.

Thankyou for your reply.

Simple fact is no one is enforcing the mask rules, the police don't care, management don't leave their office,, skip rat kids on local social media laughing openly at driver deaths and a company that has done it's usual cut every corner approach to driver safety. Companies may not be mandated to enforce the rules, so they don't, cut EVERY corner.

Whilst it is terrible about people trolling on social media (and that's what it is, the simple solution is to not respond and block), I'm not sure what else you expect the company to do? The law requires companies to put in measures to help stopping the spread (whether or not they are proven to work it has to be said), and mandates them to ask people to wear masks in certain scenarios. What it doesn't mandate is that employees be made to force them, for the simple reason that people can have exemptions and do not have to prove them. Or in other words it is not enforceable by employers. Of course some may choose to seek the intervention of the Police, however it will be at their discretion & most times they will choose not to for reasons described above. And to be blunt the Police have better things to do, criminals haven't been furloughed in the same way as millions of workers have, and in some areas certain types of crimes are actually on the increase.

And that's it really. As a country we don't have the police & armed force resources to hunt down and arrest every person not wearing masks, and thank goodness for that in my opinion. We have debated long and hard on the main restrictions thread as to why stricter mandation may not be a good thing, so I won't labour the point here. I'm sensing you are feeling aggrieved by the situation faced by yourself and other colleagues, and I get that. However seeking out evidence of blame (as it seems you may be doing) won't help, it will only cause more anger.

 

[deltic]

There is some high level data on deaths in the working age population by occupation published by Office for National Statistics - see https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopula... (79.0 deaths per 100,000,of the same age and

Bus and coach drivers appear fairly high up that list, just below nurses but some way behind taxi drivers.

 

[Geordie driver]

Whilst it is terrible about people trolling on social media (and that's what it is, the simple solution is to not respond and block), I'm not sure what else you expect the company to do? The law requires companies to put in measures to help stopping the spread (whether or not they are proven to work it has to be said), and mandates them to ask people to wear masks in certain scenarios. What it doesn't mandate is that employees be made to force them, for the simple reason that people can have exemptions and do not have to prove them. Or in other words it is not enforceable by employers. Of course some may choose to seek the intervention of the Police, however it will be at their discretion & most times they will choose not to for reasons described above. And to be blunt the Police have better things to do, criminals haven't been furloughed in the same way as millions of workers have, and in some areas certain types of crimes are actually on the increase.

And that's it really. As a country we don't have the police & armed force resources to hunt down and arrest every person not wearing masks, and thank goodness for that in my opinion. We have debated long and hard on the main restrictions thread as to why stricter mandation may not be a good thing, so I won't labour the point here. I'm sensing you are feeling aggrieved by the situation faced by yourself and other colleagues, and I get that. However seeking out evidence of blame (as it seems you may be doing) won't help, it will only cause more anger.

I have no idea why you seem to think I still work at this depot, I made it clear in my first post it's where I used to work.

Nor do I expect the police to hunt down every rule breaker, where did I suggest that? You have done the typical lower management reply of answering a different question to that I have asked then suggesting I am expecting ludicrous solutions to the scenario you have invented.

I do expect the company to support it's staff. Put supervisors busy places to encourage mask wearing. An actual plan to get occasional support from the police in service. Then could then point to this to encourage mask wearing. The current plan is ring 101 and the police refuse to come out. Every single time.

Take time on their Facebook page to answer legitimate questions, not deleting or ignoring. Bizarrely they still let the trolls have their say.

Provide decent break areas where drivers can distance and decent toilets where drivers can clean themselves. Permit them time off their vehicles to do this.

None of this is unreasonable and support by management in these difficult times is the norm in most industries. I worked until very recently front line NHS, got family in the police, working in retail, ambulance, education.

All of these moan but they are agog at the way bus companies have treated their staff.

 

[221129]

the police refuse to come out. Every single time.

So what makes you think they'll come out for random checks? The fact is they have much more important things to be doing with their limited resources.

Put supervisors busy places to encourage mask wearing.

And when people say they have an exemption or simply refuse? Then what?

You have done the typical lower management reply of answering a different question to that I have asked then suggesting I am expecting ludicrous solutions to the scenario you have invented.

Ah yes the normal chip on the shoulder rant.

 

[RomeoCharlie71]

The vast majority of bus drivers are separated from passengers by perspex screens which arguably act as "tougher" barriers to stop transmission. The passenger is also in close contact with the driver for a very, very small amount of time.

With the greatest of respect, how do we know these "outbreaks" don't trace back to canteens/drivers rooms? It honestly baffles me how many drivers I've seen huddled together in the city centre or outside the depot puffing away or yapping to each other, or happy to completely disregard any sort of social distancing when swapping drivers. Whilst this won't be representative of all bus drivers around the country, it certainly is happening. It's just too easy to blame passengers not following "the rules".

 

[221129]

how do we know these "outbreaks" don't trace back to canteens/drivers rooms?

Quite, in the same way that the vast majority of traincrew outbreaks are the same.

 

[Simon11]

In any analysis, you also have to consider the number of drivers who pass away in a normal year before covid. Drivers unfortunately are not known for having the best health and daily work life isn't very active.

 

[Geordie driver]

So what makes you think they'll come out for random checks? The fact is they have much more important things to be doing with their limited resources.


And when people say they have an exemption or simply refuse? Then what?


Ah yes the normal chip on the shoulder rant.

My son in law is on a task force specifically to enforce " the rules" and while he is busy he would be quite happy to get on a bus. But they have been told not to bother as the companies are not interested.

As for the chip on the shoulder jibe, read my post again, he invented and entirely false scenario where the police and even the army were expected to chase every single rule breaker then implied it was me being unreasonable.

No chip on my shoulder, but dear God I am pleased I am not a management lick spittal.

Another poster mentioned inadequate rest areas and cleaning facilities, he is right, the companies do not provide decent rest rooms and cleaning facilities, they just claim they do.

Drivers are scared, angry and not being supported, no surprise when you see the attitudes on here.

For what it's worth my work experience encompasses a number of professions and there is no other I have experienced where management treat their staff so poorly.

Has anyone got a factual answer to my original question, are there any statistics on drivers infections and deaths outside London?

If not, ask yourself, why not?

 

[duncombec]

Has anyone got a factual answer to my original question, are there any statistics on drivers infections and deaths outside London?

They are available by following the link in Reply #8 and downloading the statistics (direct link: https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopula...vid19relateddeathsbyoccupationenglandandwales).

Of those whose occupation was known, 85 bus drivers under the age of 65 and 121 over 65 has passed away by 28/12/20 (occupational code 8213, tables 9 and 10). Knowing at about 50 have died in London (the last exact figure I had seen is 57), that gives circa. 155 outside of London.

As Deltic commented, a fairly high number, but half as many as taxi drivers and retail workers.

There is of course precisely no knowing where the virus was contracted, and there is no guarantee that anybody in the professions I have listed as examples actually did so at work, rather than in the supermarket, from relatives, etc.

 

[317 forever]

As driver absences can lead to cancellation of buses at a time where passengers ought to keep a distance from other passengers during the pandemic this winter, I feel obliged to avoid bus trips for the next few weeks at least.