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Bus driver got off bus and punched motorist 10 times

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pemma

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Wales Online said:
A judge has criticised a bus company who hired a violent criminal despite him turning up to start work wearing an electronic tag.

Christopher Plant, from Mancot, Flintshire, was driving a bus packed with people when he “saw red” and punched a motorist 10 times during a road rage attack in Chester, a court heard.

The 48 year old was working for G.H.A when he attacked the white van driver - just days after the company transferred him to the route following a similar incident near Manchester.

Plant, who has previous convictions for assault, criminal damage and a battery offence involving a baseball bat, was banned from driving in 2010 for 16 months for drink driving.

But Plant was employed by the bus company even when he turned up for work wearing an electronic tag.

The tattooed driver was not made to fill out an application form to work for the firm, who have offices in Tarvin, Wrexham, Winsford and Ruthin, because he had done “previous work” for them, Chester Magistrates Court heard.

District Judge Michael Abelson slated the bus company for employing a “violent’ man, saying: “What was a man who was banned from driving as recently as January 2010 doing driving a bus?

“You are a drunk driver, you should not be driving members of the public around. He has previous for violence and excess alcohol, what on earth was he doing driving members of the public around?”

G.H.A, who have a fleet of 230 buses and coaches, chose not to comment on the case but confirmed Plant no longer worked for the company.

Plant was sentenced to four months behind bars and banned from driving for 12 months, after pleading guilty to attacking white van driver Danny Buckley during the incident on Saturday, August 2.

Shocked passengers watched as the bus driver got out and punched Mr Buckley at least 10 times to the face and upper body, after he drove into the bus lane in front of him in George Street, Chester.

Rob Youds, prosecuting, described how the driver wanted to turn into Frodsham Street but realised he was in the wrong lane - when he moved into the bus lane he noticed the bus driver was “gesticulating” and making rude hand movements at him.

He said: “He got out of his van to speak to the driver of the bus. He pushed the emergency exit button, he said to the driver, ‘What’s your problem?’

Plant then got out of the bus and assaulted Mr Buckley, calling him names, but Mr Buckley managed to get back in his van and drove away, added Mr Youds.

Mr Buckley was not seriously hurt in the attack, but in a victim impact statement read out in court described himself as feeling “stressed” by the incident.

In a letter read by Judge Abelson, Plant’s employers said he had not filled in an application form when he was taken on, and that they noticed he was “wearing a tag” when he turned up for work - but he explained it by saying he had been done for being drunk and disorderly.

He was moved to the company’s Tarvin offices following some “problems” and had a disciplinary hearing before the assault occurred.

The court heard that Plant had been sentenced for being drunk and disorderly, criminal damage and battery following an incident in Hawarden Way on April 17 this year.

He wanted to ‘bottle’ Mark Ellis because he believed he was having an affair with his brother’s wife - but attacked the neighbour who came out of his house to help.

Plant has a lengthy criminal record, with convictions for violence and driving offences dating back to the 1980s. He has been convicted for assault, carrying an air rifle, and battery involving a baseball bat in 2008.

Christopher Hunt, defending, said Plant had only being trying to go about “his daily business lawfully” but had “seen red” when provoked by the driver who cut across three lanes to get into the bus lane.

He said: “He has had to sit and wait as his own lights have gone green and red, and green and red again.

“He was not abusive to the other driver, he shook his head and put his hand up.”

“There was no need [for Plant to react], he should have just sat tight. He saw red,” he added.

Sentencing Plant, District Judge Abelson told him: “You had the cheek of applying for the job and not telling them. You are stupid enough to get out of your vehicle and, in front of all members of the public, walk out and repeatedly punch someone.”

http://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales-news/violent-criminal-wearing-electronic-tag-7880108

I thought bus drivers were supposed to undergo CRB checks (or whatever they are called now) due to the fact they might carry children or vulnerable adults on the bus.
 
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yorkie

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Sounds like they're both nutcases to me.

Is someone who was "banned from driving in 2010 for 16 months for drink driving" legally allowed to drive a bus? If so, the law needs changing!

Will the bus company be prosecuted? If not, why not?

Also, is he is to be let loose driving again in 12 months. That is wrong. Why are driving bans so short, and why do people who have multiple bans be allowed to ever drive again?

As usual our legal system fails to impress.
 

Xenophon PCDGS

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Punched 10 times ! In the recent Rugby League Grand Final, one "punching" offender who struck only twice saw retribution firstly by being sent off after only two minutes play, then receiving a six month ban from playing.

Back on thread, is there not a standardised requirement for drivers to reveal any past offences that could prelude their employment as a bus driver?
 

yorkie

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Back on thread, is there not a standardised requirement for drivers to reveal any past offences that could prelude their employment as a bus driver?
You'd certainly hope so! Hopefully our resident experts on these matters will be along shortly, as I'd like to know too!
 

trentside

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I know that there are certain bus companies who's application process equates to PSV Licence = Job. A company I used to travel to school with used a similar policy and a pupil was physically assaulted as a result - amazingly, the employee wasn't dismissed for the incident either. Fortunately, that company are no longer trading.

I'd hope GHA will review their practices after this - especially as they considered an explanation of "drunk and disorderly" as appropriate excuse for his wearing an electronic tag. Clearly they are not taking time to CRB check employees who may well come in to contact with children and vulnerable.
 

pemma

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Back on thread, is there not a standardised requirement for drivers to reveal any past offences that could prelude their employment as a bus driver?

From what I understand since the murder of Holly Wells and Jessica Chapman by a school caretaker any bus driver is required to complete a CRB check to an enhanced level (which would reveal even spent convictions) whether they take school contracts or not.
 

Greenback

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From what I understand since the murder of Holly Wells and Jessica Chapman by a school caretaker any bus driver is required to complete a CRB check to an enhanced level (which would reveal even spent convictions) whether they take school contracts or not.

I believe that is correct. The ultimate decision on whether to hire would be the bus company's. It looks like they may have got it wrong on this occasion.
 

455driver

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So van driver cuts bus up, bus driver gesticulated at van driver, van driver got out giving it the big I am (knowing the bus driver cant do anything because he is in uniform), but bus driver gets out and gives van driver a good thumping! Did I miss anything?

While I dont agree with violence I cant be the only one on here that found it a bit funny that the van driver got slapped after mouthing off!
I wonder if he would have been so quick to mouth off if the other bloke was in the pub etc and not in uniform?
I very much doubt it!

Either way, they are both at fault in one way or another.
 

pemma

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I'd hope GHA will review their practices after this - especially as they considered an explanation of "drunk and disorderly" as appropriate excuse for his wearing an electronic tag. Clearly they are not taking time to CRB check employees who may well come in to contact with children and vulnerable.

Indeed. I think they need to do so for their own sake, they operate council contracts for Cheshire East, Cheshire West and Flintshire councils using drivers from the Tarvin depot. If those 3 councils decide GHA aren't a suitable operator to award contracts to then they'll be a lot of work transferring back to other operators.
 

Deerfold

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While I dont agree with violence I cant be the only one on here that found it a bit funny that the van driver got slapped after mouthing off!
I wonder if he would have been so quick to mouth off if the other bloke was in the pub etc and not in uniform?
I very much doubt it!

He's less likely to have cut him up in the pub.
 

Busaholic

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''Traffic commissioners are responsible for licensing and regulating operators... of public service venicles and local bus services. They can also take action against their drivers.''

This is the first paragraph of a GOV.UK website (sorry, I can't do links). The offence/s took place within the NW Traffic Commissioner's district, that particular commissioner (Beverley Bell) being also the Senior Traffic Commissioner for the whole of G.B. She has a reputation for taking no prisoners so I can't imagine this will be the end of the story for the bus operator: it certainly shouldn't be and could well result in a formal Public Inquiry in a court setting, as these are often arranged for what many would consider more minor incidents than those revealed here.
 

muz379

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Sounds like they're both nutcases to me.

Is someone who was "banned from driving in 2010 for 16 months for drink driving" legally allowed to drive a bus? If so, the law needs changing!

Will the bus company be prosecuted? If not, why not?

Also, is he is to be let loose driving again in 12 months. That is wrong. Why are driving bans so short, and why do people who have multiple bans be allowed to ever drive again?

As usual our legal system fails to impress.

As far as I know there is nothing in law to preclude someone with a drink driving conviction from being a professional driver of any sorts. I mean once your ban for drink driving has ended you can take the tests to get the categories on your license the only thing stopping you from actually doing the job is companies recruitment policies .But I am with you in that there should be provisions meaning anybody with a DD conviction cannot get behind the wheel of a bus/truck/taxi etc

However most companies wont go near you with a barge pole if you have a conviction of the sorts . It seems this was not one if them companies .

I know of someone who has a DD conviction from about 5 years ago who has applied for various driving jobs and a taxi license and has been turned down by them all because of his conviction .

It would be interesting to know if the company had declared the Drivers convictions to their insurance company would they have permitted him to be covered by the insurance .

Something tells me this bus company operated on a dont ask dont tell policy with this and who knows how many other drivers it employs, and when you are sending your employees out there to go into direct contact with the public that shouldn't cut it .
 
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185

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I think the whole system needs to change. A lot of money has been spent on forcing drivers through new regulation / EU hours / digital tacho procedures, which was just a pointless paperwork exercise.

The real legislation should be the D and even D1 restricted by reason of five yearly medical, regardless of age and CRB and DVLA checks. This would standardise the company-only checks done by the more reputable companies, to all operators, putting everyone on a level footing.
 

AM9

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I think the whole system needs to change. A lot of money has been spent on forcing drivers through new regulation / EU hours / digital tacho procedures, which was just a pointless paperwork exercise.

The real legislation should be the D and even D1 restricted by reason of five yearly medical, regardless of age and CRB and DVLA checks. This would standardise the company-only checks done by the more reputable companies, to all operators, putting everyone on a level footing.

So you think that medically fit, CRB'd and DVLA'd drivers are OK to drive unrestricted hours?
 

IanD

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So van driver cuts bus up, bus driver gesticulated at van driver, van driver got out giving it the big I am (knowing the bus driver cant do anything because he is in uniform), but bus driver gets out and gives van driver a good thumping! Did I miss anything?

While I dont agree with violence I cant be the only one on here that found it a bit funny that the van driver got slapped after mouthing off!
I wonder if he would have been so quick to mouth off if the other bloke was in the pub etc and not in uniform?
I very much doubt it!

Either way, they are both at fault in one way or another.

Spot on. When danger reared it's ugly head, WhiteVan bravely turned his tail and fled. Yes brave WhiteVan he turned about and gallantly he chickened out.

What was this van doing in the bus lane anyway? Probably too busy on his mobile or reading the paper or eating his burger to notice the signs for his turn. There are plenty of signs and markings on the road.
 

Deerfold

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So you think that medically fit, CRB'd and DVLA'd drivers are OK to drive unrestricted hours?

Before the new regulations hours were still restricted. The restrictions have changed for some drivers.
 

Xenophon PCDGS

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I note in the report in the first posting on this thread that there is an admission that he wanted to "bottle" another person. Having seen what such a facial injury can be sustained in a medical documentary by the use of such weapon, anyone threatening to use a weapon of that sort in the full knowledge of the injury that could be caused with the expressed intent to do so, is not deserving of any sympathy whatsoever.
 

Antman

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http://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales-news/violent-criminal-wearing-electronic-tag-7880108

I thought bus drivers were supposed to undergo CRB checks (or whatever they are called now) due to the fact they might carry children or vulnerable adults on the bus.

Whilst the van driver doesn't appear to be a totally inoocent party you have to wonder how somebody got a job driving a bus so soon after being banned from driving. I wouldn't have thought any insurance company would cover him apart from anything else.

I did hear some 'canteen gossip' some years ago about a London bus operator recruiting ex prisoners because few other people wanted the job. It came to a head when the police were called to a disturbance on a bus and ended up arresting the driver who it turned out had only recently completed a prison sentence for GBH:oops:
 

Titfield

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Well it may surprise some readers of this forum but:

1) it isn't unknown for those applying for driving jobs to lie about their driving records
and
2) have acquired a "clean" version of their driving licence.

Self evidently it would be eminently sensible for Companies to carry out thorough background checks (including getting the details of the licence verified by DVLA). However this costs time effort and money (and the permission of the licence holder) and some companies rely on what they are told by the applicant and their own judgement.

As regards insurance most fleet policies do not require the specific details of each and every driver but instead have blanket restrictions for example no drivers under 25. It will be up to the bus company to ensure that these conditions are adhered to. A bus company can of course contact their insurers and ask if an exception could be made for a specific individual if they thought the circumstances so warranted. This may or may not affect the premium.

I suspect that if their was a blanket ban on drivers with dd convictions being permitted to drive PCVs and HGVs (after their ban was served) then the UK would find itself in the European Court of Justice on the grounds of breaching human rights on the grounds that the ban was excessive / oppressive and denying the right to work.
 

edwin_m

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Well it may surprise some readers of this forum but:

1) it isn't unknown for those applying for driving jobs to lie about their driving records
and
2) have acquired a "clean" version of their driving licence.

If (2) applied here then I think the driver would have been done for that too, and the story would have mentioned it.
 

fowler9

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Quite how a good number of people are allowed behind the wheel despite previous convictions is a mystery to me.

What I mean is would you be happy to get on a plane knowing that loads of the pilots had previous for being irresponsible, breaking rules, being intoxicated etc. They wouldn't think for a second about using the roads with such people though. People are often still scared of flying though!
 
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Jonny

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I suspect that if their was a blanket ban on drivers with dd convictions being permitted to drive PCVs and HGVs (after their ban was served) then the UK would find itself in the European Court of Justice on the grounds of breaching human rights on the grounds that the ban was excessive / oppressive and denying the right to work.

It comes down to the insurance issue again; if something comes up on a CRB - and higher-level checks are justified for bus drivers - then an insurance company may refuse to cover, and that would sit outside the ECHR/ Human Rights Act. Besides, the ECHR / Human Rights Act does much more good than harm.
 

muz379

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"The tattooed driver..."

:roll:

I too saw that and it stand out as shoddy journalism and completely irrelevant .
Well it may surprise some readers of this forum but:

1) it isn't unknown for those applying for driving jobs to lie about their driving records
and
2) have acquired a "clean" version of their driving licence.

Self evidently it would be eminently sensible for Companies to carry out thorough background checks (including getting the details of the licence verified by DVLA). However this costs time effort and money (and the permission of the licence holder) and some companies rely on what they are told by the applicant and their own judgement.

As regards insurance most fleet policies do not require the specific details of each and every driver but instead have blanket restrictions for example no drivers under 25. It will be up to the bus company to ensure that these conditions are adhered to. A bus company can of course contact their insurers and ask if an exception could be made for a specific individual if they thought the circumstances so warranted. This may or may not affect the premium.

I suspect that if their was a blanket ban on drivers with dd convictions being permitted to drive PCVs and HGVs (after their ban was served) then the UK would find itself in the European Court of Justice on the grounds of breaching human rights on the grounds that the ban was excessive / oppressive and denying the right to work.

I understand why the bus company might have been tempted to cut corners , however they should not get away with it , anybody that refuses to give permission for a CRB check or for their details to be checked with the DVLA should set off alarm bells and not be employed . That would be like me on receiving my job offer as a guard on the railway refusing to undergo a Drugs & Alcohol screening , I would not have been let anywhere near a train .


Well if it appears in this case that the Bus company has not been complying with the terms of its Fleet policy then have they knowingly created a situation where the insurance would have been void and so should face some inquiry into their continued licensing as a bus operator .

I would be surprised if the fleet policy did cover someone who had had a driving ban for drink in the past couple of years .

As for the European Court of Justice and Human rights , I think you have got your European Courts mixed up . The European Court of Justice does not make decisions as to if an individuals human rights have been breeches . It might however reach a decision that implementing a policy like that amounts to discrimination as it did with gender specific premiums . I personally dont think that precluding anybody with a DD conviction from being a professional driver again would be overly oppressive , look at other industries where being drunk at work would lead to dismissal and permanent removal from that industry - pilots , train drivers , police officers , doctors and nurses would not work in that industry again .


It comes down to the insurance issue again; if something comes up on a CRB - and higher-level checks are justified for bus drivers - then an insurance company may refuse to cover, and that would sit outside the ECHR/ Human Rights Act. Besides, the ECHR / Human Rights Act does much more good than harm.
The ECHR probably wouldn't be interested

However it was the European court of Justice that in 2012 decided that the practice of charging males more various insurance products compared with their female counterparts was inherently discriminatory and made a judgement saying that insurers could not discriminate on gender basis .
 

Xenophon PCDGS

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Self evidently it would be eminently sensible for Companies to carry out thorough background checks (including getting the details of the licence verified by DVLA). However this costs time effort and money (and the permission of the licence holder) and some companies rely on what they are told by the applicant and their own judgement.

In the point that I have emboldened above, may I enquire if such a matter came to the attention of the Traffic Commissioners, how would such a company be viewed by that body.
 

Titfield

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In the point that I have emboldened above, may I enquire if such a matter came to the attention of the Traffic Commissioners, how would such a company be viewed by that body.

The OTC (Office of the Traffic Commissioner) would write to the operator and ask for full details and an explanation.

If the explanation was unsatisfactory and / or the issue required further investigation then the TC could:

ask the Operator to attend a meeting with him / her
OR
convene a public inquiry.

Operators are required by law to notify the OTC of any relevant convictions incurred by the operator (itself) or its employees. Failure to do so if a conviction is brought to the attention of the OTC would result in action as above.

The OTC would also write to the nominated Transport Manager in the same vein.

I think the TC would view the above in a very poor light and take regulatory action but it would turn on the specific facts of the case.

Some occupations and convictions are notifiable that means that the body responsible for governing that activity is automatically notified by the courts / police if a conviction takes place. For example if a Driving Instructor loses their driving licence then the Registrar of Driving Instructors is automatically informed of the fact.

One of the issues is that the OTC does not have sufficient staff to be permanently searching out court or other reports of wrong doing that are not automatically notifiable. It is helpful to us all if events such as the above are notified by individuals to the OTC for their investigation and action.
 

jon0844

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Given Uno recently had a driver arrested for (alleged) dangerous driving, perhaps this guy can get a job there? He does sound like he might be over qualified though.
 

185

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So you think that medically fit, CRB'd and DVLA'd drivers are OK to drive unrestricted hours?

At no point was that suggestion put in the post you quoted. Can I misquote you, too? <D

Little has changed at many companies in the last five years in terms of hours breaches & prosecutions, so it is fair statement to say, predictably, it would have been money better spent somewhere else.
 
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