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Bus Enthusiast Etiquette.

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ScotRail158725

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Of course not, im targeting the extremists here, the ones who are caught snooping round depots late at night without permission or walking around engineering spaces, again obviously without permission, more common than you think.
i really do feel fro staff like you in the bus/rail industry who out themselves on forums and places like this as its bound to result in the desperate unwashed hassling for gen etc... its a pity the majority of the bus/train enthusiasts come under that term
 
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ScotRail158725

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Theres one particular enthusiast that has a practice that really grinds my gears. He's got names for every single vehicle in the fleet.

None of the vehicles in the fleet are officially named. That's literally why we have fleet numbers.
ah i know who you’re on about, it is something i challenged at first as it can be misleading for some people
 

CN04NRJ

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Lothian are typically seen as one of the operators who are less friendly to enthusiasts (despite the fact they hold events). I think it goes down to the fact that they're quite strict, the whole palaver regarding GDPR didn't help them either.

First and Stagecoach seem to vary between different opcos but are usually surprisingly liberal.

I wouldn't say the organisation is unfriendly from my personal experience, quite the opposite. However I've stopped posting any photos on the Edinburgh Bus/Trams group after some mean-spirited comments off one individual whilst in work and don't want to be labelled as a weird bus spotter. As I said previously I only take photos of buses I've driven as over time I've driven a huge variety of vehicles and it's nice sometimes to look back and reflect. In fact I was recently contacted by Cardiff Bus as they asked if they could use some of my photos on a blog/other social media.

I mainly just posts ome of my better pictures to Flickr primarily as a personal archive incase I lose the original files, if other people enjoy seeing them then that's a bonus.
 

RustySpoons

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Theres one particular enthusiast that has a practice that really grinds my gears. He's got names for every single vehicle in the fleet.

None of the vehicles in the fleet are officially named. That's literally why we have fleet numbers.

There was a chap who I was made aware of who seemed to have a massive obsession with First West Yorkshire, even had First logos all over the outside of his house. He seemed worryingly attached to a particular B7RLE, again even naming it and talking about buying it when it was withdrawn and tweeting the company every day asking 'where Jessica is' so he could go and have a ride and spend time with her, telling the social media teams that he was 'dreaming about her'...

Seemed pretty harmless, but opened my eyes to how enthusiastic some enthusiasts can be!
 

route101

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There was a chap who I was made aware of who seemed to have a massive obsession with First West Yorkshire, even had First logos all over the outside of his house. He seemed worryingly attached to a particular B7RLE, again even naming it and talking about buying it when it was withdrawn and tweeting the company every day asking 'where Jessica is' so he could go and have a ride and spend time with her, telling the social media teams that he was 'dreaming about her'...

Seemed pretty harmless, but opened my eyes to how enthusiastic some enthusiasts can be!

Could of had learning difficulties. I go to an open day every year and some of the enthusiasts turn up in drivers uniform , first bus ties and jackets.
 

RustySpoons

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Could of had learning difficulties. I go to an open day every year and some of the enthusiasts turn up in drivers uniform , first bus ties and jackets.

Very possibly. Although enthusiasts going round in drivers uniform could be pretty dangerous...
 

Jordan Adam

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I wouldn't say the organisation is unfriendly from my personal experience, quite the opposite. However I've stopped posting any photos on the Edinburgh Bus/Trams group after some mean-spirited comments off one individual whilst in work and don't want to be labelled as a weird bus spotter. As I said previously I only take photos of buses I've driven as over time I've driven a huge variety of vehicles and it's nice sometimes to look back and reflect. In fact I was recently contacted by Cardiff Bus as they asked if they could use some of my photos on a blog/other social media.

I mainly just posts ome of my better pictures to Flickr primarily as a personal archive incase I lose the original files, if other people enjoy seeing them then that's a bonus.

Didn't say (or meant to say) they were unfriendly, just that they seem much more tight and less welcoming than other operators when it comes to this sort of thing. I know of people and some long established groups who have enquired about depot visits before and get a straight up no, yet pretty much every other operator in Scotland will happily say yes and get a date arranged.

Sadly that is something i have spotted particularly on Facebook, there's a category of drivers who look down on all enthusiasts and drivers who are enthusiasts, yet join all the enthusiast groups just to belittle or complain about them. Seems to be more common at the bigger depots of certain operators. It's a shame as once again it's just a minority who ruin it for everyone else.
 

CBlue

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Having had an interest in public transport during my late teens (I'm far more of a casual observer these days), it never ceased to amaze me at how... overenthusiastic some others could get. I recall one story where a chap in Great Yarmouth had a habit of going and pinching whatever buses First had parked outside the depot, proceeding to drive them around until they ran out of fuel and were abandoned...I believe he had acquired a First jacket and hi-vis on eBay, so never usually got spotted - and this was in the days before vehicle trackers were commonplace.

I understand Arriva's attitude towards depot visits and enthusiasts in general was adopted after Arriva in Yorkshire unfortunately had to cancel their depot open days. Certain parts of the depot were cordened off to allow maintenance to take place, and a fitter found two veg in an inspection pit under a 'decker. Upon being challenged, the two veg got abusive - and that was the end of the depot open days!
 

ScotRail158725

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There was a chap who I was made aware of who seemed to have a massive obsession with First West Yorkshire, even had First logos all over the outside of his house. He seemed worryingly attached to a particular B7RLE, again even naming it and talking about buying it when it was withdrawn and tweeting the company every day asking 'where Jessica is' so he could go and have a ride and spend time with her, telling the social media teams that he was 'dreaming about her'...

Seemed pretty harmless, but opened my eyes to how enthusiastic some enthusiasts can be!
aw i remember coming across this guys instagram around 2 years ago, Firsts 32460 was his obsession before it went onto some single decker. no wonder veg get judged by the public when creeps like them exist
 

CN04NRJ

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Seems to be more common at the bigger depots of certain operators. It's a shame as once again it's just a minority who ruin it for everyone else.

Most definitely.

And yes, I'm not sure why these people are in these groups if it's just to ridicule others/colleagues for having a hobby.

On another topic I was a long time lurker on this forum and only signed up to correct another enthusiast-driver who posted as fact that Cardiff Bus (who run most of the local services in and to the town of Barry) were pulling out of the town entirely due to low patronage and unsustainable losses or something along those lines. In fact the total opposite was true - bigger buses were solely needed on two of the routes but the union were firmly blocking it.

Nowadays I see complete wibble being posted about Lothian as fact on Facebook (one example XLBs being sold to Stagecoach or Musselburgh being sold back to First) but it's really best not to get involved with these people. There's no educating some folk so just leave them to their bus fantasy world.
 

DunsBus

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Amusing! I had 856 last week on Rathos and was photographed by two bus paparazzi on cycles and another who had parked in a bus stop on the A8 to get a photo from the central reservation.

The level of bus enthusiasm seems to be much lower in South Wales where I'm from/drove for 10 years so this whole business of 'celebrity buses' and enthusiasts getting out on their cars and bikes to photo a particular bus on an unusual working is all new to me if a bit bemusing. Since moving here I'm surprised by how many people are into the hobby and how seriously they take it - particularly the whole Lothian/First rivalry.

The Lothian/First rivalry really grinds my gears. When you see some of the Lothian camp actually wanting to see First West Lothian put out of business, you know how bad it is.
 

PaulMc7

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The Lothian/First rivalry really grinds my gears. When you see some of the Lothian camp actually wanting to see First West Lothian put out of business, you know how bad it is.

The Lothian/First battle is as toxic as I've seen personally although I've only really looked into any public transport outside of Glasgow since I made my account on here this time last year. Had no idea it was that bad beforehand. It's also why I read that forum thread but never really comment
 

PaulMc7

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Always found enthusiast to be a misused word but I'm not sure if it's because I don't see myself as one. I use the first glasgow thread to keep up incase there's any handy info to know and I never take bus pictures etc but other than that I couldn't really care less. Only thing I hate is when you say something as a slight criticism that's perfectly valid and you get the same individuals claiming you're wrong for having an opinion every single time. I do need First to do well because every journey I make on public transport is with them but I won't hold back on valid criticism
 

NSF323

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I remember of one chap, back in 2006, who visited Seafield every Sunday for the latest gen and and to get photos. He then posted his reports, and links to his photos, to the various internet news groups.

All went well until one weekend when he put up a picture of a newly-delivered "Ace of Spades" Gemini in the process of being branded and another photo which showed Olympian 970, which had recently sustained fire damage, being dismantled.

The following weekend when he went to Seafield for his weekly fix of gen and photos he was told, in no uncertain terms, to leave and not to come back. Somewhat peeved, he then wrote to the then MD (Neil Renilson) protesting innocence - and got a rather stern reply in return! To this day that chap still maintains that he was hard done by.

As I am the chap you are referring to, can I please set the record straight on what happened at Seafield all these years ago.

You are indeed correct about me visiting the works most Sundays to see what was happening with new vehicles arriving in from Ballymena as well as general activities in the works. Now let me be absolutely crystal clear about this I did NOT just wander in and start taking photographs, I was invited in by a senior member of the staff on the very strict understanding that I could only go into certain areas with permission or when accompanied by a staff member. (it was a 7 day a week operation, albeit with minimum staff on a Sunday)

The problem occurred after I published a number of photographs of Wright Gemini’s having the new liveries applied including the ‘Ace of Spades’ one and a spate of comments appeared on social media slagging off the livery and using my photographs as reference.

Again, and as above I had full permission to take and publish the photographs on my Flickr account where they still remain to this day. The comment about Olympian 970 having recently suffered fire damage is wrong, it occurred quite a few months earlier and was caused by an electrical fault in the compartment behind the driver and was deemed uneconomic to repair, also other photographs, taken before were already on Flickr and as mine were published with full permission they had no bearing on what subsequently happened.

A couple of weeks after publishing the Gemini photographs I was back at Seafield and found the gates locked which was very unusual, after ringing the gate bell the same senior staffer who had first given me permission to enter, very apologetically explains that as a result of the comments about the new livery the senior management had decided not let any photographers into the site from that point on, Health and Safety was also quoted as another reason.

You are quite correct in that I did indeed write to Neil Renilson explaining how I had come to be there in the first place. However this is where you get things completely wrong. The reply I got was NOT in any way stern, on the contrary it was apologetic and friendly and whilst not referring to the Trolls directly, the inference was there as was the Health and Safety quote (Hi viz etc., I always had one) and it did not come from Neil Renilson it was Ian Craig! Oh and I don't feel hard done by, as someone else has said a small minority spoil it for the majority.

If you have any other questions, I will be happy to help.

Alistair Liddle
 

DunsBus

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The Lothian/First battle is as toxic as I've seen personally although I've only really looked into any public transport outside of Glasgow since I made my account on here this time last year. Had no idea it was that bad beforehand. It's also why I read that forum thread but never really comment

There are even instances of folk taking delight whenever a First bus breaks down. But when it's a Lothian bus that breaks down, the reaction is one of horror.

I can remember a spell just after deregulation when LRT's standards slipped a bit as the new plc company got to grips with the new regime. Buses regularly appeared with no fleetnames, and in one instance the "LRT Lothian" fleetname was applied the wrong way round. At the same time LRT were being given a kicking in the suburbs by Eastern's City Sprinter minibuses. LRT's sloppy era was, thankfully, shortlived but it showed that even they didn't always get it right. Not that any of today's enthusiasts would believe this, of course - in their eyes the mighty Lothian can do no wrong.
 

swifty

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On another topic I was a long time lurker on this forum and only signed up to correct another enthusiast-driver who posted as fact that Cardiff Bus (who run most of the local services in and to the town of Barry) were pulling out of the town entirely due to low patronage and unsustainable losses or something along those lines. In fact the total opposite was true - bigger buses were solely needed on two of the routes but the union were firmly blocking it.

Stagecoach/First/Cardiff Bus/Newport Bus* are closing/withdrawing etc and NAT are going to go in all guns blazing.

It’s been the same wibble from him for the past decade, still waiting for Stagecoach to buy First Cyrmu :lol:

*delete as appropriate.
 

OmniCity999

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As I am the chap you are referring to, can I please set the record straight on what happened at Seafield all these years ago.

You are indeed correct about me visiting the works most Sundays to see what was happening with new vehicles arriving in from Ballymena as well as general activities in the works. Now let me be absolutely crystal clear about this I did NOT just wander in and start taking photographs, I was invited in by a senior member of the staff on the very strict understanding that I could only go into certain areas with permission or when accompanied by a staff member. (it was a 7 day a week operation, albeit with minimum staff on a Sunday)

The problem occurred after I published a number of photographs of Wright Gemini’s having the new liveries applied including the ‘Ace of Spades’ one and a spate of comments appeared on social media slagging off the livery and using my photographs as reference.

Again, and as above I had full permission to take and publish the photographs on my Flickr account where they still remain to this day. The comment about Olympian 970 having recently suffered fire damage is wrong, it occurred quite a few months earlier and was caused by an electrical fault in the compartment behind the driver and was deemed uneconomic to repair, also other photographs, taken before were already on Flickr and as mine were published with full permission they had no bearing on what subsequently happened.

A couple of weeks after publishing the Gemini photographs I was back at Seafield and found the gates locked which was very unusual, after ringing the gate bell the same senior staffer who had first given me permission to enter, very apologetically explains that as a result of the comments about the new livery the senior management had decided not let any photographers into the site from that point on, Health and Safety was also quoted as another reason.

You are quite correct in that I did indeed write to Neil Renilson explaining how I had come to be there in the first place. However this is where you get things completely wrong. The reply I got was NOT in any way stern, on the contrary it was apologetic and friendly and whilst not referring to the Trolls directly, the inference was there as was the Health and Safety quote (Hi viz etc., I always had one) and it did not come from Neil Renilson it was Ian Craig! Oh and I don't feel hard done by, as someone else has said a small minority spoil it for the majority.

If you have any other questions, I will be happy to help.

Alistair Liddle
Renilson always was a gentleman.
 

PaulMc7

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There are even instances of folk taking delight whenever a First bus breaks down. But when it's a Lothian bus that breaks down, the reaction is one of horror.

I can remember a spell just after deregulation when LRT's standards slipped a bit as the new plc company got to grips with the new regime. Buses regularly appeared with no fleetnames, and in one instance the "LRT Lothian" fleetname was applied the wrong way round. At the same time LRT were being given a kicking in the suburbs by Eastern's City Sprinter minibuses. LRT's sloppy era was, thankfully, shortlived but it showed that even they didn't always get it right. Not that any of today's enthusiasts would believe this, of course - in their eyes the mighty Lothian can do no wrong.

Yeah some of the comments I've seen showing hate of First have been horrific to read. I must admit I've used Lothian buses anywhere genuinely like twice so I'm definitely not one to comment on them. Never used First in West Lothian either tbh although my experiences of them in Stirling/Falkirk have been pretty decent
 

DunsBus

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As I am the chap you are referring to, can I please set the record straight on what happened at Seafield all these years ago.

You are indeed correct about me visiting the works most Sundays to see what was happening with new vehicles arriving in from Ballymena as well as general activities in the works. Now let me be absolutely crystal clear about this I did NOT just wander in and start taking photographs, I was invited in by a senior member of the staff on the very strict understanding that I could only go into certain areas with permission or when accompanied by a staff member. (it was a 7 day a week operation, albeit with minimum staff on a Sunday)

The problem occurred after I published a number of photographs of Wright Gemini’s having the new liveries applied including the ‘Ace of Spades’ one and a spate of comments appeared on social media slagging off the livery and using my photographs as reference.

Again, and as above I had full permission to take and publish the photographs on my Flickr account where they still remain to this day. The comment about Olympian 970 having recently suffered fire damage is wrong, it occurred quite a few months earlier and was caused by an electrical fault in the compartment behind the driver and was deemed uneconomic to repair, also other photographs, taken before were already on Flickr and as mine were published with full permission they had no bearing on what subsequently happened.

A couple of weeks after publishing the Gemini photographs I was back at Seafield and found the gates locked which was very unusual, after ringing the gate bell the same senior staffer who had first given me permission to enter, very apologetically explains that as a result of the comments about the new livery the senior management had decided not let any photographers into the site from that point on, Health and Safety was also quoted as another reason.

You are quite correct in that I did indeed write to Neil Renilson explaining how I had come to be there in the first place. However this is where you get things completely wrong. The reply I got was NOT in any way stern, on the contrary it was apologetic and friendly and whilst not referring to the Trolls directly, the inference was there as was the Health and Safety quote (Hi viz etc., I always had one) and it did not come from Neil Renilson it was Ian Craig! Oh and I don't feel hard done by, as someone else has said a small minority spoil it for the majority.

If you have any other questions, I will be happy to help.

Alistair Liddle

Alastair,

Good to hear from you and very pleased that you've set the record straight regarding Seafield. I was going by what I'd heard on the grapevine at the time, which I now know was completely false.

Please accept my sincerest apologies.
 
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Andyh82

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The Lothian/First rivalry really grinds my gears. When you see some of the Lothian camp actually wanting to see First West Lothian put out of business, you know how bad it is.
Yes that thread here can get quite toxic, it’s just as bad in the opposite direction as well, with all the made up stories about Lothian losing millions on this route and that route and predicting all the offshoots will be discontinued.


The sort of enthusiasts who wear old uniforms and stuff are part of the reason why I don’t bother with rallies anymore, it just gives the hobby a bad name, a bad name it already has
 

TheGrandWazoo

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Always found enthusiast to be a misused word but I'm not sure if it's because I don't see myself as one. I use the first glasgow thread to keep up incase there's any handy info to know and I never take bus pictures etc but other than that I couldn't really care less. Only thing I hate is when you say something as a slight criticism that's perfectly valid and you get the same individuals claiming you're wrong for having an opinion every single time. I do need First to do well because every journey I make on public transport is with them but I won't hold back on valid criticism

That's a fair view but it should be said that if anyone proffers an opinion on a notice board like this, then they are by that act asking people to review and put forward alternative views that may challenge yours.

As long as contrary views and questions are put forward in a constructive manner that does respects the individual and siterules, then that too is valid criticism.
 

route101

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aw i remember coming across this guys instagram around 2 years ago, Firsts 32460 was his obsession before it went onto some single decker. no wonder veg get judged by the public when creeps like them exist

People have obbesions , maybe linked to ASD. I see a guy that is obsessed with stagey tridents, ex Manchester ones.
 

PaulMc7

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That's a fair view but it should be said that if anyone proffers an opinion on a notice board like this, then they are by that act asking people to review and put forward alternative views that may challenge yours.

As long as contrary views and questions are put forward in a constructive manner that does respects the individual and siterules, then that too is valid criticism.

That's what I'm saying. If someone actually puts forward their own ideas I'm fine with it but nobody is really that wrong for having an opinion unless it's completely ludicrous which I certainly wouldn't use to describe anything I say
 

TheGrandWazoo

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Seemed pretty harmless, but opened my eyes to how enthusiastic some enthusiasts can be!

It never ceases to amaze me. Remember one chap travelling 3 hours to travel on one bus from my dad's depot.... It was VOR!

Not to be pejorative, and this is said with the greatest sensitivity, but I think that buses (along with trains and planes) are attractive to people who may be a further way along the autistic spectrum than others. The attraction of numbers, sequences etc.... That might be a horrible stereotype but think there is some credence in it and may explain certain behaviours.
 

TheGrandWazoo

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That's what I'm saying. If someone actually puts forward their own ideas I'm fine with it but nobody is really that wrong for having an opinion unless it's completely ludicrous which I certainly wouldn't use to describe anything I say

Well, I don't think anyone posts anything that they believe is ludicrous....except the odd troll on here that, TBF, the mods are good at cracking down on.
 

ScotRail158725

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It never ceases to amaze me. Remember one chap travelling 3 hours to travel on one bus from my dad's depot.... It was VOR!

Not to be pejorative, and this is said with the greatest sensitivity, but I think that buses (along with trains and planes) are attractive to people who may be a further way along the autistic spectrum than others. The attraction of numbers, sequences etc.... That might be a horrible stereotype but think there is some credence in it and may explain certain behaviours.
quite a large amount of people into buses/trains have some form of disability and tbh is probably the most common (among the younger people anyway).
 

PaulMc7

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Well, I don't think anyone posts anything that they believe is ludicrous....except the odd troll on here that, TBF, the mods are good at cracking down on.

Yeah I was pleasantly surprised by how good the mods are on here. It's good to know things get dealt with quickly and helpfully
 
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