Bus operators that have an exact fare policy.

[swt class 450]

What are your thoughts on the exact fare system that is used by some bus operators in the UK?

I had absolutely no idea that such a system existed until just about a month ago when i was in a different city and came across one of these buses. It seems like a ridiculous and very customer unfriendly system. When i found out i simply got off the bus and took another company as i wasn't going to overpay.

I have done a lot of research and i am surprised by just how many bus operators use it. It seems like all of the following companies currently use this system:

• A & J Ballantyne

• Canavan Travel

• Cardiff Bus

• City Direct (Ireland)

• Clan Travel (aka GD Coaches)

• Claribels

• Coakley Bus (aka Mackenzie Bus)

• Dublin Bus [coins only]
· change is given: routes 747/757
· exact fare only: all other routes

• Dunns Coaches

• E & M Horsburgh

• Eve Coaches

• First (Scotland Only)
· change is given: All "First Scotland East" services run from Balfron and Bannockburn and Larbert depots.
· exact fare only: All "First Aberdeen" and "First Glasgow" services and all "First Scotland East services run from Livingston depot

• Garelochhead Coaches
· change is given: 320 456
· exact fare only: 100 207 302 305 306 309 316 316A 316B

• GD Coaches (aka Clan Travel)

• Go Ahead (Ireland Only) [coins only]

• Ipswich Buses
· change is given: 91 92 93 93A 93C 94 94A 94C 95 95R 97 98 111 111A 173 174 194 387 464 465 511 914 988 X93
· exact fare only: 1 2 3 4 5 5E 6 7 8 9 10 11A 11B 12 13 14 15 15A 16 18A

• JJ Travel (aka Mcnairn Coaches)

• Lets Go (aka Travel Express)

• Lothian Buses (including the "East Coast Buses" and "Lothian Country Buses" brands)
· change is given: routes 100/X99
· exact fare only: all other routes

• Mackenzie Bus (aka Coakley Bus)

• Mcnairn Coaches (aka JJ Travel)

• National Express (Coventry and Dundee and West Midlands only)

• Newport Bus

• Nottingham City Transport
· change is given: routes 1/1B/100/N100 (but not 1A)
· exact fare only: all other routes

• Prentice Coaches

• Reading Buses
· change is given: Reading Buses routes 1 2 2A 3 3B 4 7 10 10A 500 X3 X4 and Connect Henley routes 145 151 152 153 and Greenline routes 702 703 and Greenwave routes 40 50 50A 50B 51 52 52A 52B 53 53A 53B 53X 60 60A 60B 60C 60E 60M 60X 62 62A 63 66 and Kennections routes 2 2A 2C 3 3A 3X 4 4A 4B 4C 6 6A 8 9 9B 9C and Newbury & District routes 1A 1B 1C 1D 103 103A 103B 103C 103X 123 123C 124 and Thames Valley routes 4 5 6
· exact fare only: Reading Buses routes 5 6 6A 9 11 13 14 15 15A 15T 16 16S 17 19A 19B 19C 21 21A 22 22S 23 23S 24 25 25S 26 26L 26T 27 28S 29 33 33S 42 42A 42X 981 F1 F2 F10 F11 F12 F13 F14 F20 F21 F22 F23 F24 F25 F30 F31 F32 F33 F34 R1

• Rotala (Preston Bus Only)
· change is given: 1 2 3 5(Clitheroe) 5(Ormskirk) 6(Ormskirk) 12 25 35(Blackburn) 75 76 77 77A 112 114 119 122 280 312 313 337 347 400 401 433 437A 437B 546 568 574 576 584 594 648 656 660 663 664 680 695 698 719 731 741 767 820 822 830 853 859 959 960 961 962 963 995
· exact fare only: 6(Preston) 6A 8 14 16 19 19A 23 29 31 35(Preston) 44 88 89

• Travel Express (aka Lets Go)

• Wilsons Of Rhu

I may have missed some out so let me know if there are any others.

I find it strange that so many small independent bus operators in Scotland around the Edinburgh and Glasgow areas have an exact fare policy. Most of these companies only run rural routes and town bus routes. I wonder what is it about the Central Scotland area that attracts so many small independents to use it?

Also what is main purpose of it? I have read it is to do with safety and speed? But then why do so many other places in the UK (even large big cities) not have a problem with change? I don't think any bus operator in Mainland Europe (except Reykjavik in Iceland) has an exact fare policy either?

Also doesn't this system make it so easy to underpay and use counterfeit money?

If somebody uses lots of small coins how is the driver meant to count them all? For example surely somebody could easily pay £4.00 for a £5.00 fare by just using a lot of small coins? Also couldn't someone easily just put counterfeit money in to the farebox and the driver would have no way to tell? Finally you could probably even get away with putting some foreign money in it without the driver noticing?

I am a bus driver for a small independent company and i certainly wouldn't like this system on my bus.

What are your thoughts? Does anyone on here regularly use these exact fare buses? Does it make you try to avoid travelling on these companies? Or have you gotten used to it?

 

[gordonthemoron]

I used to use NCT a lot, and exact fare made it quicker than TrentBarton

 

[carlberry]

Not all exact fare operations use fare boxes which is part of what you describe. Fare boxes are usually used to improve security/reduce fraud.

Exact fare is supposed to improve boarding times however this assumes that people know what the fare is and have change. It is, however, a classic example of a way of discouraging people from using buses. Lothian, for example, clearly understand that visitors don't know the fare and wont have change (so the airport service gives it), but if they want to go anywhere else then tough luck!

 

[Bletchleyite]

I consider it a bit of an anachronism - no cash at all is probably the way to go, really, but in the meantime you provide other methods of payment (card, app, pass/carnet) and make those very attractive then the odd person requiring change doesn't slow the bus down much.

 

[Robertj21a]

Interesting to note that, of those, Lothian, Nottingham and Reading are all regular winners of the various 'Best Operator' type awards !

 

[Darklord8899]

I've lived in Edinburgh all my life and Lothian's exact fare policy has never bothered me, in fact I believe it is a good thing for the sake of the driver, they have no access to the cash so ain't likey to be faced by some jakey or junkie trying to rob them of their cash.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I've lived in Edinburgh all my life and Lothian's exact fare policy has never bothered me, in fact I believe it is a good thing for the sake of the driver, they have no access to the cash so ain't likey to be faced by some jakey or junkie trying to rob them of their cash.

Removing the cash and providing for easy non-cash payment does that even more effectively, of course.

 

[kje7812]

I've gotten used to the exact fare with Lothian, though the flat rate single and well priced day ticket help as you know what you are expected to pay before getting on. Of course, as I use the bus everyday I have a ridacard so rarely need to think about change for the present.
Contactless will help remove this issue.

 

[swt class 450]

There will always be people that will need to pay in cash. Even these days there are still some people that don't have bank accounts. So i don't think that getting rid of cash (like Greater London did) is a good option. Although with other payment methods available (such as contactless or smartcards or m tickets etc) this may mean that cash usage will significantly decline so these bus operators may be able to consider removing the fareboxes and start giving change as there will be much less passengers wanting to pay in cash so that the few that do won't really be a problem.

 

[Jordan Adam]

Here we get a bit of both First Aberdeen use exact fare with a cash box, where as Stagecoach North Scotland give change. It's interesting to note how much less time First services spend loading passengers at stops. Although perhaps the awful ticket machines Stagecoach use which always jam up don't help either!

Both have pros and cons, i prefer exact fare with cash boxes, but you could argue that this is not suitable on rural services with higher fares.

 

[Hophead]

Back in the 1980s, Kingston Upon Hull City Transport operated a farebox policy, with fares of 10p, 20p & 30p (if I remember rightly - it was certainly pretty cheap in those pre-deregulation days!). East Yorkshire Motor Services also utilised similar equipment on their local services, some of which extended beyond the city boundary. They weren't so concerned with a simple farescale, so charged sums such as 73p, for example (Cottingham - University). Obviously took an age for everyone to gather up their spare change on boarding.

 

[PeterC]

Just about acceptable if:
1. It is a flat fare
2. Fare is a round amount requiring few coins
3. The fare is displayed off bus at the stop

My one experience of a farebox operation was over 45 years ago. No advance warning that exact money was needed and no information about fares, luckily the driver allowed me on board to see if any of the passengers could change a half crown.

 

[alangla]

For Central Scotland, it’s probably common because First Glasgow & Livingston and Lothian Buses do it. Essentially the Indy is following the herd & it doesn’t seem out of place or especially unreasonable. Idiotic and annoying policy though & only relieved by the fact you can generally pay by card now, at least on the larger operators

 

[Man of Kent]

There will always be people that will need to pay in cash. Even these days there are still some people that don't have bank accounts. So i don't think that getting rid of cash (like Greater London did) is a good option. Although with other payment methods available (such as contactless or smartcards or m tickets etc) this may mean that cash usage will significantly decline so these bus operators may be able to consider removing the fareboxes and start giving change as there will be much less passengers wanting to pay in cash so that the few that do won't really be a problem.

Actually, the opposite is more likely. The fewer people who pay cash, the greater the overhead costs of dealing with that cash. You can get rid of the whole infrastructure of paying in, counting and banking cash (and the BBC website recently carried news items about pubs in London that no longer take cash, and banks - yes, banks - in Sweden that don't either). It is effectively what has happened in London - it was too expensive to continue collecting cash from a tiny number of passengers. Absolutely right to highlight that it will affect some people disproportionately, especially those without bank accounts, but equally, you've highlighted the solutions - some of which would also encompass children who need to travel independently.

 

[Bletchleyite]

There will always be people that will need to pay in cash. Even these days there are still some people that don't have bank accounts.

I don't think there is any need for cash payment to be on-bus, provided you can pay cash elsewhere. PayPoint/Payzone is probably a good way of doing it.

 

[big all]

went on a tfl bus in surrey contactless card failed for the first time ever
stunned i got off the bus not knowing where i was [situation wise ]
the driver beckoned me back on the bus wrote out a chitty to pay for the £1.50 i asked where to pay and he shook his finger winked and suggested a back up card for future problems
i was reluctant to get a second "contactless" because off conflict but decided to as i am a few months from my bus pass so no swipe required

 

[route101]

I've lived in Edinburgh all my life and Lothian's exact fare policy has never bothered me, in fact I believe it is a good thing for the sake of the driver, they have no access to the cash so ain't likey to be faced by some jakey or junkie trying to rob them of their cash.

Ha dont you mean Glasgow

 

[Darklord8899]

Ha dont you mean Glasgow

haha, yes, probably more likely, but given some parts of Edinburgh...

 

[peri]

Back in the 1980s, Kingston Upon Hull City Transport operated a farebox policy, with fares of 10p, 20p & 30p (if I remember rightly - it was certainly pretty cheap in those pre-deregulation days!). East Yorkshire Motor Services also utilised similar equipment on their local services, some of which extended beyond the city boundary. They weren't so concerned with a simple farescale, so charged sums such as 73p, for example (Cottingham - University). Obviously took an age for everyone to gather up their spare change on boarding.

ISTR the fare in Hull being 88p:- 50p, 20p, 10p, 5p, 2p and 1p. First time I was glad when the bus fares went up!

 

[randyrippley]

West Midlands PTE had an exact fare policy in the 1970's. The ticket was a photocopy of the coins used

 

[Marton]

I was in Sheffield in the 70s when fares didn’t rise despite high inflation.

The ticket machines on some routes stamped an imprint of the coins. I took puerile delight in paying the maximum fare with 1/2ps. 12 or 14p I think.

If you needed change you would get that from the driver. Seemed a Fair way to pay the fare.

 

[mic]

PrestonBus use exact fare Yorkshire rider in the 1990s did with some services in Huddersfield and Bradford

 

[Jordan Adam]

I was in Sheffield in the 70s when fares didn’t rise despite high inflation.

The ticket machines on some routes stamped an imprint of the coins. I took puerile delight in paying the maximum fare with 1/2ps. 12 or 14p I think.

If you needed change you would get that from the driver. Seemed a Fair way to pay the fare.

Surely you main a "fare way".

 

[DavidGrain]

West Midlands PTE had an exact fare policy in the 1970's. The ticket was a photocopy of the coins used

I was about to post that in the West Midlands exact fare had been required long before National Express took over. I never had a problem as in those days I did not use the bus very often and usually knew sometime in advance say if I was going away on holiday or business and used the bus into Birmingham to catch a train. Since I got a bus pass I have been using the buses more often and if I was going away by train and needed to travel before 9.30am I started using Plus Bus tickets as they were cheaper than the bus fare. Now National Express are charging a concessionary fare of £1 before 9.30 and normally a £1 coin is no problem.

I never saw a photocopy of the coins on my ticket ever. tickets were always a strip about an inch wide by 3 inches long.

 

[Andyh82]

Yorkshire rider in the 1990s did with some services in Huddersfield and Bradford

They brought it in in those areas when they got rid of conductors, and got rid of it when customer service started to become a focus in the mid 90s.

Despite the changes in technology over the last 30 years it seems the actual exact ‘fare box’ is exactly the same in a Lothian Gemini in 2018 or a WYPTE Atlantean in 1980, there seems to be only one type in use across the board.

 

[DunsBus]

Lothian's exact fare policy dates back to Edinburgh Corporation days. It was introduced in September 1973 on two services, the 30 and 43, which both ran between Waverley Bridge and Wester Hailes. It was rolled out across the network from the following February.

 

[GusB]

When I lived in Aberdeen it was exact-fare on Grampian Transport/First Aberdeen buses. All the stops had signage telling you where you were, and how much it would cost to the next stage(s), so I always knew how much it would cost. Of course, there was no guarantee that I'd have the correct change, and I'm sure they made loads of extra money from this. On the other hand, if I did occasionally find myself slightly short, most drivers would just nod, press the relevant button on the Wayfarer II and the money would disappear into the Big Red Box with no further questions asked.

They used to have a pre-paid stored-value card (Farecard), which was a credit-card sized piece of paper which was inserted into smaller red box on the bus. On one side was a magstripe running down the middle, and on the other was a "progress bar" that the machine printed on each time you used the card. It was impossible for passengers to know exactly how much monetary value was left on the card, but drivers and staff in the little hut outside Markie's were able to advise. Farecard v2 made it a bit more customer-friendly by printing the amount remaining on the card each time it was used. I've no idea when this equipment was finally removed (or if it's still in use) - perhaps @Jordan Adam could shed some light?

Most of the Northern Scottish/Bluebird/Stagecoach routes gave change, but there were a couple that were a hangover from the old Northern Citybus network - I think the 59 was one of them - where it was still exact-fare. From memory, the M-plate Alexander PS B10Ms had fare boxes.

 

[Jordan Adam]

When I lived in Aberdeen it was exact-fare on Grampian Transport/First Aberdeen buses. All the stops had signage telling you where you were, and how much it would cost to the next stage(s), so I always knew how much it would cost. Of course, there was no guarantee that I'd have the correct change, and I'm sure they made loads of extra money from this. On the other hand, if I did occasionally find myself slightly short, most drivers would just nod, press the relevant button on the Wayfarer II and the money would disappear into the Big Red Box with no further questions asked.

They used to have a pre-paid stored-value card (Farecard), which was a credit-card sized piece of paper which was inserted into smaller red box on the bus. On one side was a magstripe running down the middle, and on the other was a "progress bar" that the machine printed on each time you used the card. It was impossible for passengers to know exactly how much monetary value was left on the card, but drivers and staff in the little hut outside Markie's were able to advise. Farecard v2 made it a bit more customer-friendly by printing the amount remaining on the card each time it was used. I've no idea when this equipment was finally removed (or if it's still in use) - perhaps @Jordan Adam could shed some light?

Most of the Northern Scottish/Bluebird/Stagecoach routes gave change, but there were a couple that were a hangover from the old Northern Citybus network - I think the 59 was one of them - where it was still exact-fare. From memory, the M-plate Alexander PS B10Ms had fare boxes.

The second version of the Farecard machines got removed in 2009 when the paper cards were replaced with plastic ones which you could just place on to of the Almex ticket machines, much like a concessionary card. The plastic farecards stayed in use right up till 2016, The Farecard concept was first introduced in 1988.

Stagecoach have gave change on the 59 for quite some time now (Possibly since the early 00s), despite that many vehicles kept the fare boxes in order to allow them to operate night services which until recently used exact fare.

 

[GusB]

The second version of the Farecard machines got removed in 2009 when the paper cards were replaced with plastic ones which you could just place on to of the Almex ticket machines, much like a concessionary card. The plastic farecards stayed in use right up till 2016, The Farecard concept was first introduced in 1988.

Stagecoach have gave change on the 59 for quite some time now (Possibly since the early 00s), despite that many vehicles kept the fare boxes in order to allow them to operate night services which until recently used exact fare.

I hadn't realised that the Farecard concept had lasted so long. It was a good idea in theory, but in practice it didn't really allow speedy boarding. The Farecards themselves were fairly temperamental, and often required re-insertion before they could be read properly. Cash was very much faster!

 

[Jordan Adam]

I hadn't realised that the Farecard concept had lasted so long. It was a good idea in theory, but in practice it didn't really allow speedy boarding. The Farecards themselves were fairly temperamental, and often required re-insertion before they could be read properly. Cash was very much faster!

The second version of the machines (White ones) which remained in use up till 2009 proved to be very unreliable towards the end, with passengers often having to be let on for free. The reason for it being scrapped in 2016 was due to a decline in use and the rise of "smart ticketing". A good concept that did work, but became outdated by better technologies.

On all the buses native to the fleet up to the SV08 B9TLs you can still see where the machines used to be as the hole on the cab wall has just been panelled over. (see link below).

https://www.flickr.com/photos/jordanadam44/36729695583/