Bus Passenger Rights - Stranded If Last Bus Cancelled.

[extendedpaul]

Back In December I and about 15 other passengers were left open mouthed in central Cardiff when a late evening Stagecoach bus to Blackwood via Caerphilly sailed past the bus stop without even slowing down. I and several others had clearly raised our arms as the bus rounded the corner.

One of the other passengers was an off duty police officer. He spoke, with me by his side, to the driver of a following Stagecoach service and asked for an emergency contact number. He was told there wasn't one. Some of us decided to catch a train instead, others AFAIK waited for the next bus which was the final service of the evening and due 45 minutes later.

I complained to Stagecoach and got a prompt and very apologetic reply. However the reply ignored two points in my email, one about the apparent lack of a contact phone number and the other asking what we could have done if it had been the last bus of the day, specifically would the cost of a taxi be reimbursed ? By then the final train would also have departed and that doesn't follow the complete bus route anyway. I therefore took up the " if I can be of any further help" part of the reply and asked the two unanswered questions again. I waited 3 weeks - no reply. I e-mailed again - almost another 3 weeks and still no reply. This makes me suspect they don't want to reply at all.

I am reluctant as a matter of principle just to let the matter drop and would welcome any views or suggestions what I might do next . Bus Users UK perhaps ? Or the Department Of Transport ?

 

[higthomas]

I'm afraid I'd expect very little. Bus companys don't have rules similar to NRCOT. If they don't have an emergency phone number, that's their decision. (Remember unlike Stagecoach a lot of bus companies are small operations, where having any phone number is good.)

 

[175mph]

I'm afraid I'd expect very little. Bus companys don't have rules similar to NRCOT. If they don't have an emergency phone number, that's their decision. (Remember unlike Stagecoach a lot of bus companies are small operations, where having any phone number is good.)

I've heard that in some cases, Stagecoach have offered complimentary Megariders as compensation after enough complaining in situations such as what the OP mentioned.

 

[Tetchytyke]

Very few rights, the T&Cs for bus companies offer all sorts of getout clauses, though the Consumer Rights Act will help.

In West Yorkshire three of the four big companies will refund a taxi if the last bus is more than 20 minutes late. https://www.wymetro.com/contact-us/...i-refunds-for-bus-journeys-in-west-yorkshire/

 

[swt class 450]

Buses are not like trains. If they are cancelled or delayed or don't stop or skip out parts of the route then there is really nothing you can do.

Many small independent bus operators still don't even have any phone numbers or email addresses. So it is basically impossible to contact them.

A couple of years ago a certain bus operator (who are known for being an awful operator) i was on broke down in a rural village on the last journey of the day. The driver couldn't fix the bus so he called himself a taxi and told us to make our own way to our destinations. He just left us all there stranded. There were no other buses so the only other way to get anywhere was to walk one hour to the nearest railway station. This is what i had to do while the other four passengers (who were all OAPs) had to phone up taxis and pay for them with their own money. I went by four days later and the bus was still abandoned by the side of the road.

This is really one of the major problems for passengers with the bus industry. There is really nothing in place to help stranded passengers if the last bus is cancelled or it doesn't stop.

 

[175mph]

Buses are not like trains. If they are cancelled or delayed or don't stop or skip out parts of the route then there is really nothing you can do.

Many small independent bus operators still don't even have any phone numbers or email addresses. So it is basically impossible to contact them.

A couple of years ago a certain bus operator (who are known for being an awful operator) i was on broke down in a rural village on the last journey of the day. The driver couldn't fix the bus so he called himself a taxi and told us to make our own way to our destinations. He just left us all there stranded. There were no other buses so the only other way to get anywhere was to walk one hour to the nearest railway station. This is what i had to do while the other four passengers (who were all OAPs) had to phone up taxis and pay for them with their own money. I went by four days later and the bus was still abandoned by the side of the road.

This is really one of the major problems for passengers with the bus industry. There is really nothing in place to help stranded passengers if the last bus is cancelled or it doesn't stop.

I've asked a Stagecoach bus driver one evening when I was on the last 350 bus coming back to Scunthorpe from Hull what would happen if the bus broke down halfway back seeing as it's the last one, and he said there's an emergency call out number he has to call someone to go to the depot and fetch a replacement bus, there's no way passengers would ever be stranded.

As to the mention earlier of few or no rights compared to the trains, some of the replies in this discussion might suggest otherwise: https://www.railforums.co.uk/thread...nger-back-home-after-problem-with-bus.161633/

 

[swt class 450]

That's good to hear that Stagecoach in Hull and Scunthorpe do that. But unfortunately there are lots of other bus operators who don't care if they leave passengers stranded. Not all bus operators will make sure that they don't leave passengers stranded.

 

[Darklord8899]

I'm not sure about England, but I'm sure in Scotland there is a mandatory requirement for operators to run the first and last schedule service of a route.

I remember in Edinburgh (back when there was a N33) the last 33 from Ferniehill had broken down and by the time a replacement vehicle was sent out to run the service it was running about the same time as the N33 (which was usually some time later than the last day 33) .... it was funny watching drunk people trying to pay the night fare on the day bus

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Within West Yorkshire, the Combined Authority works First, Arriva and Transdev and the Association of Bus Operators in West Yorkshire on an initiative called Bus 18 that features:

• Free Journey Guarantee - If you are not happy with your bus journey, you can claim a free travel voucher.
• Free taxi if your last bus is late - If the last bus doesn’t arrive within 20 minutes of the scheduled time, you can call a taxi, save the receipt and claim the cost back.

Not a statutory act but one of the partnership benefits.

 

[Busaholic]

I'll just say what I might do if I was waiting for a last bus that didn't turn up, and incurred significant expense and/or inconvenience as a result. If, after taking it up with the bus company concerned, I felt their response was inadequate or, even worse, dismissive, I might well take it up with the Traffic Commissioner for the area, on the grounds it might well be not just an isolated case, and ask them to make enquiries: if nothing else, it might send a warning shot across the bows. When I say I might do this, I can be lethargic but, if stirred, can get the bit between my teeth. I'd be more likely to do this if others were involved too, on their behalf, as I well might know a little bit more about bus operations than them. Of course, if it happened in London that particular recourse wouldn't be open.

 

[bb21]

Anecdotally I had taxi fares reimbursed when last buses didn't turn up, on all four occasions I had over the years - Wilts & Dorset, Arriva Fox County, Stagecoach Coastliner, and Reading Buses one each.

 

[extendedpaul]

Thanks for replies and comments.As the OP I should perhaps add that I didn't end up out of pocket as I have a Wales Concessionary Bus Pass.

I wanted to buy a train ticket but the off duty copper said we (two other passengers, me and him) didn't need to in the circumstances and he would cover us if the conductor came along. As it happened the train was rammed and the conductor didn't appear. I don't think a police office can actually confer free travel privileges on other people !

 

[175mph]

Thanks for replies and comments.As the OP I should perhaps add that I didn't end up out of pocket as I have a Wales Concessionary Bus Pass.

I wanted to buy a train ticket but the off duty copper said we (two other passengers, me and him) didn't need to in the circumstances and he would cover us if the conductor came along. As it happened the train was rammed and the conductor didn't appear. I don't think a police office can actually confer free travel privileges on other people !

I wonder if the police officer would have helped you if after you left your train there was a revenue check at the station?

 

[extendedpaul]

Yes that's why I felt a bit uncomfortable travelling ticketless. It was almost 10.45 pm and I had my cash and railcard ready on the train which was absolutely rammed. The whole scenario from the bus not stopping to the policeman taking over was all a bit surreal at the time. One of the other passengers was a young lady who had been out partying and was wearing high heels and she was struggling to keep up as we walked to the station. We didn't reach Queen Street until a few minutes before the train was due so when he said not to buy train tickets I wasn't going to argue !

 

[175mph]

Anecdotally I had taxi fares reimbursed when last buses didn't turn up, on all four occasions I had over the years - Wilts & Dorset, Arriva Fox County, Stagecoach Coastliner, and Reading Buses one each.

Was it a lengthy battle with any of them or was it a painless process with them all?

 

[bb21]

I think the Wilts & Dorset one involved three letters from me, Reading one two letters, but the other two were fine.

The fares involved were all under £20, but Wilts & Dorset refunded my bus ticket as well as I had a return with me.

 

[221129]

Thanks for replies and comments.As the OP I should perhaps add that I didn't end up out of pocket as I have a Wales Concessionary Bus Pass.

I wanted to buy a train ticket but the off duty copper said we (two other passengers, me and him) didn't need to in the circumstances and he would cover us if the conductor came along. As it happened the train was rammed and the conductor didn't appear. I don't think a police office can actually confer free travel privileges on other people !

The Police Officer has no right to grant free travel at all. And you would all have been bang to rights if a block was on.

 

[Tetchytyke]

The Police Officer has no right to grant free travel at all

Yes he does. Police constables are authorised persons under the railway byelaws.

 

[route101]

Had the last 31 from Glasgow to East Kilbride not turn up a few times , its SPT supported and has to run . Also had it not return to EK bus stn after going to the Kingsgate .

 

[Siemens Trains]

First Scotland East reimbursed me and fellow passengers for the taxi fare when the last bus failed to operate from Edinburgh city centre a few years back. On that occasion I think it had suffered a broken window, but you can imagine lots of reasons why a vehicle needs to be withdrawn and the depot is too far away for a replacement to cover.

 

[175mph]

First Scotland East reimbursed me and fellow passengers for the taxi fare when the last bus failed to operate from Edinburgh city centre a few years back. On that occasion I think it had suffered a broken window, but you can imagine lots of reasons why a vehicle needs to be withdrawn and the depot is too far away for a replacement to cover.

Do you know if it was the result of vandalism?

 

[Siemens Trains]

Do you know if it was the result of vandalism?

I didn't get that impression - not sure but more like a catch had failed on an emergency exit or something like that. The bus was still driveable. We were waiting at the West End and the driver went past returning the branded vehicle out of service to the depot so we knew we'd had it.

 

[KendalKing]

I complained to Stagecoach and got a prompt and very apologetic reply. However the reply ignored two points in my email, one about the apparent lack of a contact phone number and the other asking what we could have done if it had been the last bus of the day, specifically would the cost of a taxi be reimbursed ? By then the final train would also have departed and that doesn't follow the complete bus route anyway. I therefore took up the " if I can be of any further help" part of the reply and asked the two unanswered questions again. I waited 3 weeks - no reply. I e-mailed again - almost another 3 weeks and still no reply. This makes me suspect they don't want to reply at all.

I have had the same problem with Stagecoach Morecambe depot.

At one point Stagecoach Morecambe depot, had an ex directory phone number, due to the high number of complaints about buses failing to operate.

 

[221129]

Yes he does. Police constables are authorised persons under the railway byelaws.

Your source for that please?

 

[Tetchytyke]

Your source for that please?

The railway byelaws, I just told you.

“authorised person” means: (i) (ii) a person acting in the course of his duties who: (a) is an employee or agent of an Operator, or (b) any other person authorised by an Operator, or any constable, acting in the execution of his duties upon or in connection with the railway

 

[221129]

So an off duty PC wouldn't be acting in the course of their duties so could not authorise travel themselves.

 

[Busaholic]

So an off duty PC wouldn't be acting in the course of their duties so could not authorise travel themselves.

That would be my interpretation too. I'd go further, and speculate that deciding whether a fare was due, or not, was beyond the scope of a constable, even if on duty, but passengers would be unlikely to receive sanctions if they'd been advised they didn't have to pay by such a person.

 

[Tetchytyke]

So an off duty PC wouldn't be acting in the course of their duties so could not authorise travel themselves.

An off duty copper probably couldn't, if they were clearly and obviously off duty, but you said police officers can't. That's not true.

I'd go further, and speculate that deciding whether a fare was due, or not, was beyond the scope of a constable, even if on duty

An authorised person giving you permission is a defence to prosecution.

Whether that person should have given permission is a matter for their employer.

 

[Bletchleyite]

That would be my interpretation too. I'd go further, and speculate that deciding whether a fare was due, or not, was beyond the scope of a constable, even if on duty, but passengers would be unlikely to receive sanctions if they'd been advised they didn't have to pay by such a person.

If an Authorised Person by the meaning of the Byelaws gives permission to travel and this can be evidenced, if they should not have done that becomes a disciplinary matter between them, their employer and (if a third party) the TOC. It does not reflect in any way on the passenger, a fare cannot be retrospectively imposed, a PF appeal would succeed and a prosecution would fail.

This is similar to the "argument between RPI and guard" thread - in that case the RPI cannot retract permission given by an Authorised Person (the guard) - once given, such permission stands - all they can do is report it as a disciplinary matter.

 

[175mph]

I have had the same problem with Stagecoach Morecambe depot.

At one point Stagecoach Morecambe depot, had an ex directory phone number, due to the high number of complaints about buses failing to operate.

But did they later get angry mobs turning up at the depot because of that?