Bus Routes Lost/ Changed Due To Light Rail

[tbtc]

What routes/ links were lost due to the introduction of the Edinburgh trams, Tyne & Wear Metro, Manchester Metrolink, Sheffield Supertram, Nottingham Express Transit, Midland Metro and Croydon Tramlink?

In the case of Sheffield Supertram...

Middlewood - City - there used to be a five minute double decker service into the city centre (81/82/83/84/88) - I think that this was down to a ten minute service (81/82) by the time the trams opened in the mid '90s - later replaced by a ten minute minibus service (85/86) that was then replaced by stops on the Stocksbridge services that had previously been pick up/set down as far as Stockarth Lane - the Stocksbridge buses were effectively replaced by a "feeder" route that doesn't run south of Middlewood. There were also frequent services from northern Sheffield via Leppings Lane into the city centre (e.g. the 86 was every ten minutes, the 779 was a few times per hour too - the 17/18 half hourly). Now, there are no services from Middlewood into the city centre and the only service from Leppings Lane into the city is the hourly 135 that diverts via the back streets of Walkley rather than running directly down Infirmary Road (other than the 97/98 which do run from Leppings Lane to the city centre, but via a much longer route, not really intended for Leppings Lane - City journeys - taking around forty minutes to do Hillsborough - City which is only two miles as the crow flies)

Malin Bridge - City - still a ten minute bus service into the city centre - there were fourteen buses per hour at one stage - but the tram hasn't cut into the bus market as much here because it only terminates a short distance beyond Hillsborough, whereas the buses run further up the hill into Stannington

Hillsborough - Infirmary Road - City - now only seven buses per hour (six of which are from Stannnigton via Malin Bridge) - once upon a time there was a Mainline bus every couple of minutes (the 13/14 were every six minutes, the 81/82/83/84 every five, the 85/86 every ten, the 89 every ten, the 17/18/779 probably provided another half dozen buses per hour) - plus up to ten Sheffield Ombibus services per hour (18 every fifteen minutes, the 1/11/21 every ten minutes)

Manor Top - Norfolk Park - City - no bus service remains - both Mainline and Yorkshire Terrier were running at least a ten minute service in the early '90s before the tram arrived. In fairness, the high rise flats were knocked down, so it's not as lucrative as it once was, but it's a significant loss on the bus map

Herdings Park - Gleadless - Ridgeway Road - Manor Top - City - there used to be the 51 every ten minutes from Herdings Park - Gleadless - City and the 64 every fifteen from Gleadless - Ridgeway Road - Manor Top - City. Now only the 51 remains and it's been diverted away from Herdings Park, so that it doesn't compete with the tram. There's a frequent service from Herdings Park into the city (11/11A) but that's a very different route. The only route from Ridgeway Road into the city centre is the very convoluted 18, which is a very box ticking ramble round the city

Halfway - Crystal Peaks - City - there's only really one bus service nowadays (ignoring the 7/ 8/8A/ 30 that go the long way round), the 120 is every five minutes, but there used to be a number of other fast services from Crystal Peaks. The only other route worth mentioning is the hourly 80 via Mosborough Parkway. Once upon a time you'd have had the 41/ 95/ 127/ X26/ X27/ X28/ X55/ X56 and I'm sure a few other routes I've forgotten about

Owlthorpe - City - there used to be the X55 every ten minutes, providing a fast direct service, but now there's only the 8/8A which provide a very slow service, diverting via Base Green every twenty minutes

Meadowhall - Attercliffe Common - City - the 69 from Rotherham ran every five minutes with bendi-buses from close to the current Tinsley tram stop through Attercliffe Common into the city. The 501 was another route with bendi-buses, running from Meadowhall along Brightside Lane every seven minutes, with the X77/X78 every half hour. The 93 was every ten minutes from Meadowhall along Carlisle Street into the city. So a bus every couple of minutes from the Meadowhall area into the city. Now there's only a ten minute service ( the X78 plus the X1/X10 which are roughly replacements for the 69). The 95/95A are replacements for the 93 but now running on the other two sides of the triangle, so not really intended for Meadowhall - City journeys

So Supertram has become the only option for a number of journeys (on corridors that used to have a "turn up and go" bus frequency prior to the tram's introduction), as well as the dominant service on other corridors. It's not done as well on the Herdings Park route (which is only a half hourly tram) or Malin Bridge (which is a bit of a "stump" beyond Hillsborough, not running as far as where more people live).

But what of other light rail networks that were opened during my lifetime? How many bus routes were lost/ cut back to accommodate them? (I know that the bus routes on Tyneside were initially cut back to Gateshead/ Gosforth etc to avoid competition with the Metro but I don't know how many of these links were subsequently reintroduced)

For argument's sakes, I've tried to remember the frequencies that applied in the period just before the relevant bits of Supertram were opened (or the routes that continues to apply immediately after, but were subsequently cut back) - I appreciate it's a bit of an inexact science though!

 

[Ianno87]

Croydon has a few examples, where bus routes have been cut back to avoid duplication by the tram, the 54 (Elmers End to Woolwich) is an example - it used to run through to Croydon.

In Nottingham, Trent Barton used to run a "Hucknall Flyer" (IIRC) which bit the dust fairly quickly after NET opened.

 

[ChrisC]

In Nottingham, Trent Barton used to run a "Hucknall Flyer" (IIRC) which bit the dust fairly quickly after NET opened.

The Hucknall Flyer only ran for a very short time in the years immediately before the NET tram opened. There were other much more frequent services which were axed that had been running for decades from the early days of Trent Buses.

There used to be 2 main routes from Hucknall to Nottingham. Since the opening of the tram only the current Trent Barton Threes route and 141 via the City Hospital remains.

The other long established route from Hucknall to Nottingham was via Bulwell, Basford and Hyson Green. This more or less followed the route the tram now takes although it ran the last bit into the city via Canning Circus. It’s understandable that this route be reduced when NET opened but cutting it altogether has made public transport less convenient for accessing areas of the route not close to a tram stop. Also it now means that there are no direct buses between Hucknall town centre and Bulwell. Going way into the past the route numbers on this route were 60, 60A and 60B which ran from the Hucknall estates and 61 which ran through from Mansfield. They were renumbered a number of years before NET and I think finally there was just a number 45 which ran via Bulwell between Hucknall and Nottingham.

 

[edwin_m]

Nottingham City Transport's 13 and 14 roughly parallelled the tram out to Beeston but I think were withdrawn before the tram started. The Yourbus Beeston route also went, as did the NCT route 2 to Clifton.

 

[steamybrian]

In Croydon I am sure the 130X route was axed when Tramlink was introduced . This express route ran non-stop from East Croydon station to Gravel Hill. Maybe someone can confirm?

 

[Bristol LHS]

Interesting one from Sunderland. WH Jolly had been one of the few independents to operate a route entirely within PTE territory throughout the 70s and 80s, carrying on as they had since the 1920s, with little change except having won the right to extend their services into the (then) town centre in the 60s, when the railway originally closed. They survived deregulation and carried on operating their Duple-bodied Bedfords between the city centre and their home base of South Hylton.

With the prospect of the Metro extension to South Hylton in the mid to late 90s, they sold up and Busways took over the route with their Favourite subsidiary, leading to it finally being given its own number (it was always just “JOLLY” on timetables previously), as the 8.

its since been merged with another old favourite route, the 14/14a, and runs from South Hilton via Barnes into the city centre every 30 mins. Jollly used to run in parallel with Stagecoach’s 20 down HHilton Road, before heading south to serve the old Royal Infirmary on the way into town.

 

[Deerfold]

Nottingham City Transport's 13 and 14 roughly parallelled the tram out to Beeston but I think were withdrawn before the tram started. The Yourbus Beeston route also went, as did the NCT route 2 to Clifton.

The 13 certainly lasted a while after the tram started. Though there had already been reductions in other Beeston buses when the 36 frequency was increased. Back in the early 00s there were 4 buses per hour on each of the 12 (Middle Street, University Bvd, QMC, Derby Road), 13 (Queens Road, University Bvd, Castle Bvd), 37 (Dennis Avenue, Derby Road) and 38 (Middle Street, Derby Road) with the 13 and 37 starting back at Imperial Road and the 38 coming from Chilwell along Bramcote Avenue and then down Devonshire Avenue) and occasional buses on the 34 from Chilwell along High Road - so the number of NCT buses serving Beeston has dropped by more than 50% (but the 36 has roughly doubled its frequency from the old 38).

 

[43055]

I believe trentbartons Ruddington Connection was lost due to the NET extension.

 

[Busaholic]

In Croydon I am sure the 130X route was axed when Tramlink was introduced . This express route ran non-stop from East Croydon station to Gravel Hill. Maybe someone can confirm?

It was the X30 that got axed, but it had only been a Mon-Fri peak with-the-flow operation. The 130 itself did, in the end, continue: the original intention had been to withdraw it entirely. After a few years, the 130's routeing was moved away from Croydon to Norwood Junction. Some other routes saw capacity reductions and rerouteings too, but the 54 and 130/X30 were the main losers. Many in the transport world considered the 54 cutback to have been a strategic mistake, but the chances of it being reversed get less and less as time goes on (twenty one years now!)

 

[Redmike]

Manchester Metrolink's airport line saw a few routes cut or truncated. Stagecoach's 369 to the Airport was withdrawn and replaced by additional 368 buses but only to Wythenshawe. Arriva's 19 bus was also cut back from the Airport to Wythenshawe. There has been some trimming back of services between Rochdale, Shaw and Oldham as well. On the whole though most of the main services which parallel Metrolink lines have held up well e.g. 216, 135.

 

[daodao]

Manchester Metrolink's airport line saw a few routes cut or truncated. Stagecoach's 369 to the Airport was withdrawn and replaced by additional 368 buses but only to Wythenshawe. Arriva's 19 bus was also cut back from the Airport to Wythenshawe. There has been some trimming back of services between Rochdale, Shaw and Oldham as well. On the whole though most of the main services which parallel Metrolink lines have held up well e.g. 216, 135.

Other routes lost include 109 from Wythenshawe Hospital to the city centre via Northern Moor and 84 from Chorlton to the city centre via Seymour Grove. The bus service (33) along Eccles New Road is now only half-hourly.

 

[JMcD99]

Trent Barton’s 32 was eventually axed in I think 2006 after the first tram line was built, it ran from Nottingham to Bulwell via Beeston and Stapleford. Their route 18 was cutback hourly to Stapleford before finally being axed a couple of years ago after the new extension was completed, with CT4N taking over the route. And you could argue that the indigo’s reduced frequency from 7-8 minutes to every 10 was caused by the extension of the tram too.

 

[cnjb8]

Trent Barton’s 32 was eventually axed in I think 2006 after the first tram line was built, it ran from Nottingham to Bulwell via Beeston and Stapleford. Their route 18 was cutback hourly to Stapleford before finally being axed a couple of years ago after the new extension was completed, with CT4N taking over the route. And you could argue that the indigo’s reduced frequency from 7-8 minutes to every 10 was caused by the extension of the tram too.

Trent Barton can be quite cheeky in that they reduce the PVR of a route just before they buy new buses for it, example is the i4 and indigo.
Skylink Express was diverted through Clifton and renamed Skylink Clifton about two or three years after the NET extension was built. Not doubt the people of Clifton would have rather used the tram then an 15-16 year old Scania

 

[Megafuss]

A number of express buses between Sunderland and the Newcastle l/Gateshead operated by Go Ahead have gone by the wayside "thanks" to the Tyne and Wear Metro extension to Sunderland

X4, X23, X85, X95, X96 were all in operation before the Metro extension but have been cancelled.

There were attempts to ressurect them in some.form, but they failed.

Only route 56, a local stopping service and Stagecoach operated X24 currently exist between the two main cities in the North East

There were also numerous local services in South Tyneside which have gone thanks to the Sunderland extension. For example Go North East only operates services 5, 9, 20, 26, 27 and 50 in that area. Whereas in the past they had numerous services in the 5xx numbering series, enough to warrant full bus timetable magazines!

 

[edwin_m]

Trent Barton can be quite cheeky in that they reduce the PVR of a route just before they buy new buses for it, example is the i4 and indigo.

Seems a reasonable thing to do to re-assess demand before spending money on vehicles, especially if they are branded so would cost more to re-use elsewhere.

Skylink Express was diverted through Clifton and renamed Skylink Clifton about two or three years after the NET extension was built. Not doubt the people of Clifton would have rather used the tram then an 15-16 year old Scania

As TB is part of the NET operation, I don't think they were trying to compete with themselves for Clifton-Nottingham passengers. The original Skylink via the A453 was to link deprived areas in Meadows and Clifton to jobs around the airport, with any use by airport passengers being an incidental benefit. Running the Express via the A453 restored that link but I think the routeing through Clifton was a mistake, as it was a very slow detour including speed bumps and made the route uncompetitive for airport journeys from further east. People from Clifton wanting the airport can walk a short distance to the A453 or get the tram and interchange at the park and ride.

 

[Deerfold]

Trent Barton’s 32 was eventually axed in I think 2006 after the first tram line was built, it ran from Nottingham to Bulwell via Beeston and Stapleford. Their route 18 was cutback hourly to Stapleford before finally being axed a couple of years ago after the new extension was completed, with CT4N taking over the route. And you could argue that the indigo’s reduced frequency from 7-8 minutes to every 10 was caused by the extension of the tram too.

At its most frequent, the indigo ran every 5 minutes between Nottingham and Long Eaton.

 

[Llandudno]

What routes/ links were lost due to the introduction of the Edinburgh trams, Tyne & Wear Metro, Manchester Metrolink, Sheffield Supertram, Nottingham Express Transit, Midland Metro and Croydon Tramlink?

In the case of Sheffield Supertram...

Middlewood - City - there used to be a five minute double decker service into the city centre (81/82/83/84/88) - I think that this was down to a ten minute service (81/82) by the time the trams opened in the mid '90s - later replaced by a ten minute minibus service (85/86) that was then replaced by stops on the Stocksbridge services that had previously been pick up/set down as far as Stockarth Lane - the Stocksbridge buses were effectively replaced by a "feeder" route that doesn't run south of Middlewood. There were also frequent services from northern Sheffield via Leppings Lane into the city centre (e.g. the 86 was every ten minutes, the 779 was a few times per hour too - the 17/18 half hourly). Now, there are no services from Middlewood into the city centre and the only service from Leppings Lane into the city is the hourly 135 that diverts via the back streets of Walkley rather than running directly down Infirmary Road (other than the 97/98 which do run from Leppings Lane to the city centre, but via a much longer route, not really intended for Leppings Lane - City journeys - taking around forty minutes to do Hillsborough - City which is only two miles as the crow flies)

Malin Bridge - City - still a ten minute bus service into the city centre - there were fourteen buses per hour at one stage - but the tram hasn't cut into the bus market as much here because it only terminates a short distance beyond Hillsborough, whereas the buses run further up the hill into Stannington

Hillsborough - Infirmary Road - City - now only seven buses per hour (six of which are from Stannnigton via Malin Bridge) - once upon a time there was a Mainline bus every couple of minutes (the 13/14 were every six minutes, the 81/82/83/84 every five, the 85/86 every ten, the 89 every ten, the 17/18/779 probably provided another half dozen buses per hour) - plus up to ten Sheffield Ombibus services per hour (18 every fifteen minutes, the 1/11/21 every ten minutes)

Manor Top - Norfolk Park - City - no bus service remains - both Mainline and Yorkshire Terrier were running at least a ten minute service in the early '90s before the tram arrived. In fairness, the high rise flats were knocked down, so it's not as lucrative as it once was, but it's a significant loss on the bus map

Herdings Park - Gleadless - Ridgeway Road - Manor Top - City - there used to be the 51 every ten minutes from Herdings Park - Gleadless - City and the 64 every fifteen from Gleadless - Ridgeway Road - Manor Top - City. Now only the 51 remains and it's been diverted away from Herdings Park, so that it doesn't compete with the tram. There's a frequent service from Herdings Park into the city (11/11A) but that's a very different route. The only route from Ridgeway Road into the city centre is the very convoluted 18, which is a very box ticking ramble round the city

Halfway - Crystal Peaks - City - there's only really one bus service nowadays (ignoring the 7/ 8/8A/ 30 that go the long way round), the 120 is every five minutes, but there used to be a number of other fast services from Crystal Peaks. The only other route worth mentioning is the hourly 80 via Mosborough Parkway. Once upon a time you'd have had the 41/ 95/ 127/ X26/ X27/ X28/ X55/ X56 and I'm sure a few other routes I've forgotten about

Owlthorpe - City - there used to be the X55 every ten minutes, providing a fast direct service, but now there's only the 8/8A which provide a very slow service, diverting via Base Green every twenty minutes

Meadowhall - Attercliffe Common - City - the 69 from Rotherham ran every five minutes with bendi-buses from close to the current Tinsley tram stop through Attercliffe Common into the city. The 501 was another route with bendi-buses, running from Meadowhall along Brightside Lane every seven minutes, with the X77/X78 every half hour. The 93 was every ten minutes from Meadowhall along Carlisle Street into the city. So a bus every couple of minutes from the Meadowhall area into the city. Now there's only a ten minute service ( the X78 plus the X1/X10 which are roughly replacements for the 69). The 95/95A are replacements for the 93 but now running on the other two sides of the triangle, so not really intended for Meadowhall - City journeys

So Supertram has become the only option for a number of journeys (on corridors that used to have a "turn up and go" bus frequency prior to the tram's introduction), as well as the dominant service on other corridors. It's not done as well on the Herdings Park route (which is only a half hourly tram) or Malin Bridge (which is a bit of a "stump" beyond Hillsborough, not running as far as where more people live).

But what of other light rail networks that were opened during my lifetime? How many bus routes were lost/ cut back to accommodate them? (I know that the bus routes on Tyneside were initially cut back to Gateshead/ Gosforth etc to avoid competition with the Metro but I don't know how many of these links were subsequently reintroduced)

For argument's sakes, I've tried to remember the frequencies that applied in the period just before the relevant bits of Supertram were opened (or the routes that continues to apply immediately after, but were subsequently cut back) - I appreciate it's a bit of an inexact science though!

How much of the reduction in routes and frequency of buses in Sheffield is down to the introduction of the tram though, in the mid 1980s bus fares were about 2p per journey and so the buses were rammed, nowadays fares are much, much higher and commercially operated in the main by the not so reliable First Group?

 

[43055]

At its most frequent, the indigo ran every 5 minutes between Nottingham and Long Eaton.

The indigo was only every 5 mins between Beeston and Nottingham and one every 10 mins continueing to Long Eaton. Before this it was every 6-7 mins to Long Eaton.

 

[johncrossley]

In the Croydon area bus routes were deliberately altered once the tram opened to maximise the benefit of potential connections, together with cost savings which could be ploughed back into the wider network. For example, whilst the direct service from Orpington to Croydon was curtailed at a new bus station at Addington Village, the frequency on the bus part of the route was improved. Addington Village is really in the middle of nowhere, so few people actually want to go there, but it was built so that connections could be made.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

What routes/ links were lost due to the introduction of the Edinburgh trams, Tyne & Wear Metro, Manchester Metrolink, Sheffield Supertram, Nottingham Express Transit, Midland Metro and Croydon Tramlink?

In the case of Tyne and Wear, it was such as massive undertaking in early 1980s that it's hard to summarise all the changes that happened.

There were some eminently sensible things like the 190 corridor of routes were truncated at Heworth Metro to feed into the system there so that removed some 6 buses per hour running through to Gateshead and Newcastle. Only a few routes (like the old X5 Hartlepool to Newcastle express) continued from Washington to Newcastle. The 319 from Hebburn to Cramlington was cut back to Jarrow though think it was then extended to Sunderland.

Routes like the 313 North Shields - Wallsend - Newcastle were withdrawn in totality with the coordinated 20/21 continuing to run over part of the route from Wallsend to Newcastle. There were a number of route exchanges as I mentioned before so Throckley and Newbiggin Hall ceased to be United routes but they did gain the 306. Again, all very sensible and straight-forward.

The issue, as often noted and it is the case, is that it went a little too far. So you had routes like Leam Lane to Newcastle (59/60) that were truncated at Gateshead Metro, so instead of a 25 minute direct journey, you'd have a 20 minute journey, then get off descend into the Metro, wait and then catch a train and that would equate to a 30-35 min journey. More "efficient" but not necessarily what people want. Some local routes did still traverse the Tyne but most were services running in from County Durham via Low Fell or Wrekenton.

There was also the interchange at Regent Centre but that never caught on because most services were coming from Northumberland but crucially and unlike Gateshead, those routes also needed to serve central Gosforth (which the Metro doesn't) so they continued to run through to the city centre. You wouldn't get off there for the city centre in preference to staying on, and the market for folks travelling from Northumberland to South Tyneside is quite limited so hence the relative failure of Regent Centre.

All of that saw some sweeping withdrawals in United, Northern and PTE fleets. With Northern, it meant the culling of lots of time expired Atlanteans, Leopards and Fleetlines that were from the late 1960s (and they gained 60 new or nearly new Atlanteans from the PTE). The PTE fleet was massively reduced so that the oldest fleet went (and some of the newest as mentioned) but even 7 year old Nationals and Atlanteans being sold off. United were also able to sell off vehicles at young ages with the first VRs (11 year old) and REs going prematurely, whilst LHs went at 7 yrs of age for scrap

 

[Statto]

Other routes lost include 109 from Wythenshawe Hospital to the city centre via Northern Moor and 84 from Chorlton to the city centre via Seymour Grove. The bus service (33) along Eccles New Road is now only half-hourly.

I have a GM Buses timetable from 1991 & 33 was every 30 minutes back then, but the service extended from Worsley to Wigan via Boothstown-Astley-Tyldesley & the current 132 to Wigan

979 Wolverhampton-Birmingham limited stop, i think was withdrawn around the time the Midland Metro was opened, partly replaced by 80/80A but only going Wednesbury-Birmingham


As discussed on the Tyne & Wear Metro thread T&WPTE cut a lot of routes short to Heworth, Four Lane Ends, Gateshead, Regent Centre so passengers had to transfer to the Metro if they wanted to get to Newcastle City Centre

 

[Andy Pacer]

In Nottingham the long standing Nottingham City Transport 48 route to Clifton has been reduced since the tram introduction.

 

[daodao]

I have a GM Buses timetable from 1991 & 33 was every 30 minutes back then, but the service extended from Worsley to Wigan via Boothstown-Astley-Tyldesley & the current 132 to Wigan

There were additional routes running alongside route 33 (may have been route 63), so the service along Eccles New Road was at least every 15 minutes.

 

[Statto]

In the case of Tyne and Wear, it was such as massive undertaking in early 1980s that it's hard to summarise all the changes that happened.

There were some eminently sensible things like the 190 corridor of routes were truncated at Heworth Metro to feed into the system there so that removed some 6 buses per hour running through to Gateshead and Newcastle. Only a few routes (like the old X5 Hartlepool to Newcastle express) continued from Washington to Newcastle. The 319 from Hebburn to Cramlington was cut back to Jarrow though think it was then extended to Sunderland.

Routes like the 313 North Shields - Wallsend - Newcastle were withdrawn in totality with the coordinated 20/21 continuing to run over part of the route from Wallsend to Newcastle. There were a number of route exchanges as I mentioned before so Throckley and Newbiggin Hall ceased to be United routes but they did gain the 306. Again, all very sensible and straight-forward.

The issue, as often noted and it is the case, is that it went a little too far. So you had routes like Leam Lane to Newcastle (59/60) that were truncated at Gateshead Metro, so instead of a 25 minute direct journey, you'd have a 20 minute journey, then get off descend into the Metro, wait and then catch a train and that would equate to a 30-35 min journey. More "efficient" but not necessarily what people want. Some local routes did still traverse the Tyne but most were services running in from County Durham via Low Fell or Wrekenton.

There was also the interchange at Regent Centre but that never caught on because most services were coming from Northumberland but crucially and unlike Gateshead, those routes also needed to serve central Gosforth (which the Metro doesn't) so they continued to run through to the city centre. You wouldn't get off there for the city centre in preference to staying on, and the market for folks travelling from Northumberland to South Tyneside is quite limited so hence the relative failure of Regent Centre.

All of that saw some sweeping withdrawals in United, Northern and PTE fleets. With Northern, it meant the culling of lots of time expired Atlanteans, Leopards and Fleetlines that were from the late 1960s (and they gained 60 new or nearly new Atlanteans from the PTE). The PTE fleet was massively reduced so that the oldest fleet went (and some of the newest as mentioned) but even 7 year old Nationals and Atlanteans being sold off. United were also able to sell off vehicles at young ages with the first VRs (11 year old) and REs going prematurely, whilst LHs went at 7 yrs of age for scrap

130 Newcastle-Sunderland via East Boldon being one such example, this was cut to Heworth-Sunderland, passengers were up in arms when this route was cut, one issue having to change from the bus to metro to complete the journey

There were additional routes running alongside route 33 (may have been route 63), so the service along Eccles New Road was at least every 15 minutes.

Yep 25/27/63 were the additional routes via Eccles New Road

 

[Ianno87]

There were additional routes running alongside route 33 (may have been route 63), so the service along Eccles New Road was at least every 15 minutes.

I suspect the problem on Eccles New Road is that the locals see the tram as "free" given the lack of ticket inspections.

 

[PTR 444]

Not quite trams but on a similar subject, am I right in thinking that First Solent’s routes 10 and 11 from Fareham to Gosport were reduced to less than half of their previous frequency as a result of the Eclipse BRT opening?

There must be similar examples for other BRT operations in the country, not just trams.

 

[johncrossley]

Not quite trams but on a similar subject, am I right in thinking that First Solent’s routes 10 and 11 from Fareham to Gosport were reduced to less than half of their previous frequency as a result of the Eclipse BRT opening?

There must be similar examples for other BRT operations in the country, not just trams.

Same principle applies, but it doesn't get anywhere near as much attention as buses being withdrawn because of trams. Bus enthusiasts claim to be "mode blind" but that is rarely the case. In Manchester the routes paralleling the Leigh-Salford guided busway have had substantial cuts.

 

[Statto]

Not so much Light Rail but Guided Busway, as when the Leigh Guided Busway opened the 32 which was Wigan-Manchester was cut to Wigan-Wardley A580 P&R, & has since been withdrawn, & the 34 which used to operate direct via the East Lancs Road has been rerouted via Worsley & Monton.

 

[Busaholic]

In the Croydon area bus routes were deliberately altered once the tram opened to maximise the benefit of potential connections, together with cost savings which could be ploughed back into the wider network. For example, whilst the direct service from Orpington to Croydon was curtailed at a new bus station at Addington Village, the frequency on the bus part of the route was improved. Addington Village is really in the middle of nowhere, so few people actually want to go there, but it was built so that connections could be made.

Yes, great that interchanges are available, but if all you want to do is reach the centre of Croydon from Orpington by public transport, then the prospect of being dumped in the middle of nowhere at a windswept bus stop which appears to lack anything much in the way of facilities, even if a tram is waiting, wouldn't fill many with joy ( and I speak as a tram/trolleybus enthusiast even more than a bus enthusiast.) In the case of Elmers End and the 54 bus there is no direct interchange for a disabled person like myself. European systems rarely make this basic error.

 

[johncrossley]

European systems rarely make this basic error.

Eh? It is very common for buses to terminate at the edge of cities at outlying metro/tram stations in mainland Europe.

What if you were going from somewhere on the 54 route to somewhere other than Croydon town centre? Then you would have to change anyway. You can't seriously expect everywhere to be connected by a direct bus.