Bus services only listed as public in order to claim BSOG

Discussion in 'Buses & Coaches' started by 175mph, 22 Dec 2019.

  1. 175mph

    175mph Member

    Messages:
    530
    Joined:
    25 Jan 2016
    As the discussion title suggests, are there any services listed in your area at any bus stop timetables for example, where if you attempt to flag it down, 9 times out of 10, the driver will simply ignore you and pass you by? As I mentioned in the thread about being stranded due to issues with the last bus, there is a special college days only service running in the afternoon where if you attempt to flag it down, even with it being listed on the timetables at the bus stops, a lot of the time, you'll just be ignored. There are actually three of the same number 360, one going only as far as Winterton, one as far as Barton and one that goes beyond Barton to a village called East Halton. I suppose if you're only going anywhere upto as far as Barton, it's not so much of an issue as you can catch the 350 bus to Hull instead which serves Winterton and Barton, but I suppose if you wanted East Halton, it would be extremely irritating to have it go past you.

    They of course allow boarding the buses at the colleges and also at the bus station, but it's pot luck as to whether or not they'll allow you to board the buses at the stops in between, despite them listing the service.
     
  2. Registered users do not see these banners - join or log in today!

    Rail Forums

     
  3. carlberry

    carlberry Established Member

    Messages:
    1,906
    Joined:
    19 Dec 2014
    The answer is to report the none operation of a registered service to the operator then (if no improvement) to the traffic commissioners.
     
  4. Bletchleyite

    Bletchleyite Veteran Member

    Messages:
    47,055
    Joined:
    20 Oct 2014
    Location:
    Up and down the south WCML (mostly)
    I'm not aware of routes that actually "scare away" non school traffic but there certainly are some locally that would only be of use to teachers in terms of being a public service. However some of them have I believe been de-registered so they can continue using old high floor deckers.
     
  5. TheGrandWazoo

    TheGrandWazoo Veteran Member

    Messages:
    12,975
    Joined:
    18 Feb 2013
    Location:
    Somerset with international travel (e.g. across th
    I'm sorry but is this really a major issue?

    If there was a service that "if you attempt to flag it down, 9 times out of 10, the driver will simply ignore you and pass you by", I'd suggest that anyone attempting to catch it with a 10% success rate would need their head looking at!

    Dare I say it but you seem to have quite a lot of (perceived )issues with buses and trains....in Scunthorpe.
     
  6. gingerheid

    gingerheid Member

    Messages:
    991
    Joined:
    2 Apr 2006
    I don't understand how you could think it isn't.
     
  7. Bletchleyite

    Bletchleyite Veteran Member

    Messages:
    47,055
    Joined:
    20 Oct 2014
    Location:
    Up and down the south WCML (mostly)
    It's a major issue that my taxes are potentially going on fraudulent BSOG claims, yes.

    It's also a major issue if timetabled bus services are wilfully not being operated as timetabled.
     
  8. TheGrandWazoo

    TheGrandWazoo Veteran Member

    Messages:
    12,975
    Joined:
    18 Feb 2013
    Location:
    Somerset with international travel (e.g. across th
    No - let me be clear. I'm not talking about legalities or consequences. I'm talking about the frequency that it happens. Are volcanic eruptions a major issue.... well, yes, what with lahars, pyroclastic flows, lava, etc? However, it is that big an issue in Milton Keynes.....? I'm guessing not :lol:

    As I say, how many instances occur each year where this is happening? The OP seems rather unlucky, judging by this and other threads.
     
  9. 175mph

    175mph Member

    Messages:
    530
    Joined:
    25 Jan 2016
    It's not a major issue that's majorly bothering me, I just thought it would spark up a decent discussion.

    I only ever attempted to flag it down once, but have spoken to others who had the same problem.
     
  10. TheGrandWazoo

    TheGrandWazoo Veteran Member

    Messages:
    12,975
    Joined:
    18 Feb 2013
    Location:
    Somerset with international travel (e.g. across th
    How many people? How many times have they tried to board it?

    Did any of you report it to the Traffic Commissioner?
     
  11. 175mph

    175mph Member

    Messages:
    530
    Joined:
    25 Jan 2016
    I don't know if they did or not, but I never thought to as I'd never even heard of the Traffic Commissioner back when it happened. I just chalked it up to an annoying experience.

    I've spoken to about two perhaps three people during my daily commute to and from Hull on the 350 and these people live in the villages served by the 350 and the 360 and said their luck varies each day, sometimes they can catch the 1st one, sometimes the 1st or even the 2nd 360 goes past them but they are able to catch the 3rd one, other times none of them will stop for them.
     
  12. Starmill

    Starmill Events Co-ordinator

    Messages:
    14,039
    Joined:
    18 May 2012
    Location:
    Manchester
    I'm not sure it's anyone's place to try to shut down discussion here just because they think that something isn't "major" as an issue. There is plenty of capacity to discuss minor issues which are of interest or very broad topical relevance in accordance with the Forum Rules.
     
  13. RustySpoons

    RustySpoons Member

    Messages:
    185
    Joined:
    5 Apr 2019
    They aren't limited stop or set down only services are they? As in, they'll pick up at the college and only stop to let people off?
     
  14. TheGrandWazoo

    TheGrandWazoo Veteran Member

    Messages:
    12,975
    Joined:
    18 Feb 2013
    Location:
    Somerset with international travel (e.g. across th
    Absolutely agree. That’s what the mods do.

    However there’s mountains and molehills. The OP does seem to encounter more problems than most.

    In 30+ years, the number of times buses have sailed past me is minimal and usually as a) I’m stood at the wrong stop (my error) and/or b) bus stop information is out of date!
     
    Last edited: 23 Dec 2019
  15. 175mph

    175mph Member

    Messages:
    530
    Joined:
    25 Jan 2016
    Could be, there's no indication in the timetables to suggest it though, (and I wouldn't expect them to either).
     
  16. jfollows

    jfollows Member

    Messages:
    382
    Joined:
    26 Feb 2011
    Location:
    Wilmslow
    BSOG? Sorry, but this thread is pretty meaningless without an explanation of what this might be, in my opinion.
     
  17. 175mph

    175mph Member

    Messages:
    530
    Joined:
    25 Jan 2016
    https://www.gov.uk/government/collections/bus-services-grants-and-funding

     
  18. jfollows

    jfollows Member

    Messages:
    382
    Joined:
    26 Feb 2011
    Location:
    Wilmslow
    Thank you!

    Bus Service Operators Grant
     
  19. Geordie driver

    Geordie driver Member

    Messages:
    160
    Joined:
    15 Sep 2019
    Location:
    Scotland
    I have been a big bus user for half a century and have never been left other than by a full bus provided I have been at the stop and clearly indicated I want the bus. Might have been a couple of times where several buses were trying to use the same stop and the one I wanted went round them without checking the stop properly.

    Yet it seems to happen all the time to some people?
     
  20. CN04NRJ

    CN04NRJ Member

    Messages:
    36
    Joined:
    28 Nov 2019
    Location:
    UK
    We used to have several at Cardiff Bus - the first 'stop' would be in the depot and it would run 'non stop' to whatever the starting point of the route was.

    Didn't last long before they replaced them with in service journeys - e.g every bus that used to run empty between the depot and the city center run in service as a 4. It's mostly all gone back to empty workings now.

    One example : https://flic.kr/p/meY7e7

    [​IMG]
     
  21. py_megapixel

    py_megapixel Member

    Messages:
    428
    Joined:
    5 Nov 2018
    In Manchester I notice that the bus timetables list non-public school services in the "Locally terminating services" section for stops near schools. I'm unsure why, as I doubt anyone could use this information for any useful purpose!
     
  22. jumble

    jumble Member

    Messages:
    277
    Joined:
    1 Jul 2011
    I will report any bus that fails to stop in London as one did last week to TFL who take this kind of thing very seriously and they will make a fuss to the operator
    This is a big advantage of contracted services
    (The instances are few and far between mind)
     
  23. 221129

    221129 Established Member

    Messages:
    4,527
    Joined:
    21 Mar 2011
    Location:
    Sunny Scotland
    If you live in an area where one or two drivers regularly do this then you'll have more issues than someone who doesnt. Pretty straight forward really.
     
  24. Dai Corner

    Dai Corner Established Member

    Messages:
    2,237
    Joined:
    20 Jul 2015
    I've been refused travel on a Newport Transport 'school' service registered as public.

    It was travelling away from the school in the afternoon and had stopped to let children off so the driver had no reason to refuse in the grounds of being full. I did email the Council (as the service is run under contract to them) but didn't receive a reply.
     
  25. Shimbleshanks

    Shimbleshanks Member

    Messages:
    580
    Joined:
    2 Jan 2012
    Location:
    Purley
    There's nothing on the TfL website to indicate that the TfL 612 route in South London can't be used by humans, although it is listed as Monday to Fridays, schooldays only.
     
  26. TheGrandWazoo

    TheGrandWazoo Veteran Member

    Messages:
    12,975
    Joined:
    18 Feb 2013
    Location:
    Somerset with international travel (e.g. across th
    True enough but there are some folks who seem particularly unlucky in various instances.
     
  27. Merle Haggard

    Merle Haggard Member

    Messages:
    281
    Joined:
    20 Oct 2019
    Location:
    Northampton
    Ever tried that?? I have, though not quite in the same circumstances.

    There was a service sprang up in Watford straight after de-reg. Operated by a National in over-all ad (for a shopping centre in Guildford) and still with LC-SW legals. No tax disc, no operators disc, driver had no badge (but plenty of tattoos). Paper destination in windscreen.
    The TC was 'too busy, ring you back'.
    After 4-5 attempts without my call being returned, I was more persistent, but immediately they then started asking me questions. What's your interest in this? for instance (my answer - concerned about safety of passengers in un-insured vehicle possibly driven by someone who had not passed the appropriate test). Then they suggested I ask the driver the questions I was addressing to them. Right.
    Seemed unaware that no tax disc meant insurance (if they'd bothered) was invalid. Blanked my request for a letter confirming a vehicle didn't need to be taxed to be used on the road but refused to do anything about it either. Repeatedly said that they were too busy (doing what?).
    Scandalous total lack of interest but what do you do?
    Wonder if a train operator that ignores every safety and legislative requirement would be left to continue by the regulators...

    Oh (and more relevantly); an operator running a tendered council service in my town ran it with a plain white bus, no linens in the number blind box, no destination (although they DID have a personal reg. mis-spaced to show their fleetname - no expense spared there). No body used it - one group thought it was for firshermen (!) Spoke to the Council person with responsibility and suggested displaying where the bus ratepayers were paying for might be a contractual obligation. Response - Laughter. 'It's almost impossible to get anyone to take on this work, so any further conditions and they would withdraw'.

    Maybe I'm just a whinger. Or am I expecting too much?
     
  28. markymark2000

    markymark2000 Member

    Messages:
    445
    Joined:
    11 May 2015
    Location:
    Chester
    I can only speak from my experience but calling up to report an operator has been quite easy. I've done it a few times to report companies who were running regularly off timetable.
     
  29. carlberry

    carlberry Established Member

    Messages:
    1,906
    Joined:
    19 Dec 2014
    The TC operation just couldn't cope with what they were expected to do immediately after dereg (and for a few years afterwards) so the response is not surprising (even if it's inexcusable). The government of the day wanted more of the type of operators you describe (however they'd have preferred them to stay just within the law).
     
  30. Busaholic

    Busaholic Established Member

    Messages:
    8,828
    Joined:
    7 Jun 2014
    Even until fairly recently,some bus operators in Essex (particularly), Herts and Bucks seemed to get away with a lot they shouldn't have, though not at the same level you're talking about. I guess a lot depends on the attitude of the top people in each area T.C., which appears to vary widely.
     
  31. Jordan Adam

    Jordan Adam Established Member

    Messages:
    3,181
    Joined:
    12 Sep 2017
    Location:
    Aberdeen
    Bain's Coaches 777. - https://bustimes.org/services/777-oldmeldrum-dyce-kirkhill-industrial-estate

    The Kingswells to Kirkhill section of the route is part of the existing 777 that no longer exists (see the 8:25 run from Kingswells in the old timetable below). Back then the 305 would terminate in town and go dead to Kingswells to do the 8:25 run, however on the dead run it was notorious for picking up passengers along the route despite it not being registered. When the council axed the 777 earlier this year Bain's re-registered the 8:25 run, however extended it to start in the city centre and finish at Oldmeldrum there was no real reason for this whatsoever other than so they could claim BSOG payments on a dead run from Aberdeen to Oldmeldrum. Most times (in the unlikely event that the bus actually has a display fitted) the destination will just show Airport or Kirkhill rather than Oldmeldrum and you won't see a single soul on the bus!

    As seen here the bus is already screened up for the 777 and is carrying passengers despite the fact that Bain's had no service registered over this section of route!
    https://www.flickr.com/photos/41987105@N06/7269765242
    https://www.flickr.com/photos/41987105@N06/6732662533/

    Some more photos of buses that had just came off a run on the 305 displaying 777 "illegally".
    https://www.flickr.com/photos/turkeygeorge401/48991834137/
    https://www.flickr.com/photos/41987105@N06/5569327134/
    https://www.flickr.com/photos/41987105@N06/44070068542/
     

Share This Page