Bus stop timetables - whose responsibility?

[TheManOnThe172]

Our local operator has made an unexpected (and non-trivial) change to their timetable but the bus stop is still displaying the old timetable.

Should I be chasing the bus company, or the local authority, to make the update?

 

[Danfilm007]

Usually the Local Authority's responsibility - there will be a street care team or a public transport team who take care of it.

 

[Man of Kent]

Who maintains the display? Some clues as to that:
- Local authority displays tend to downplay the operator and feature the authority more prominently
- Operator displays are frequently more colourful and don't mention the local authority.

Usually the Local Authority's responsibility - there will be a street care team or a public transport team who take care of it.

No. Varies from place to place. Shire counties tend towards operators doing the work; urban authorities tend to produce their own.
In some places the split will be commerical/tendered.

 

[TheManOnThe172]

Just checked, and it looks very much like a Derbyshire County Council responsibility. Confirmed by a passing Hulleys driver, who had hard copy timetables to offer (and had dropped one off to the village shop a few days back) but has no ability to update times on stops.

Presumably Derbyshire's £47m BSIP (bus service improvement plan) money can't be used for anything as un-innovative as getting the correct timetables displayed, or (from my experience today) employing staff to answer the phone to hear that you've let people down.

 

[Andyh82]

You can often tell by the design of the stop flag, and what logos it has stuck on it. Does it have a council logo, or an operators logo, or is it one of those bespoke Ray Stenning style stops that some operators use

 

[43055]

Our local operator has made an unexpected (and non-trivial) change to their timetable but the bus stop is still displaying the old timetable.

Should I be chasing the bus company, or the local authority, to make the update?

Just checked, and it looks very much like a Derbyshire County Council responsibility. Confirmed by a passing Hulleys driver, who had hard copy timetables to offer (and had dropped one off to the village shop a few days back) but has no ability to update times on stops.

Presumably Derbyshire's £47m BSIP (bus service improvement plan) money can't be used for anything as un-innovative as getting the correct timetables displayed, or (from my experience today) employing staff to answer the phone to hear that you've let people down.

At my local stops in Derbyshire on a trentbarton route they look after the timetable case and route branded part of the flag. Derbyshire Council then maintain the main section of the flag which has the bus stop name on. When I was in Bakewell earlier in the year the Derby/Matlock bound stop had a council (orange & grey) timetable as well on which might be the case on most routes.

 

[m79900]

At my local stops in Derbyshire on a trentbarton route they look after the timetable case and route branded part of the flag. Derbyshire Council then maintain the main section of the flag which has the bus stop name on. When I Bakewell earlier in the year the Derby/Matlock bound stop had a council (orange & grey) timetable as well on which might be the case on most routes.

That’s true. The only problem is that a lot of stops only have one timetable case, so even though other services may stop there, you can’t tell. It’d be better if Trent showed other services as well.

 

[Llandudno]

Electronic PIS displays are currently being installed on many bus stops between Matlock and Bakewell, don’t think that they are real time though and they only show you the next two buses.

Most bus stop timetable display cases only show TrentBarton and High Peak (TransPeak) bus timetables and only principal stops have Hulley’s timetables, normally updated by Derbyshire County Council

 

[43055]

Electronic PIS displays are currently being installed on many bus stops between Matlock and Bakewell, don’t think that they are real time though and they only show you the next two buses.

Most bus stop timetable display cases only show TrentBarton and High Peak (TransPeak) bus timetables and only principal stops have Hulley’s timetables, normally updated by Derbyshire County Council

I believe some electronic displays were being put up in Hatton at the weekend as well so maybe they are being put up in a number of places.

 

[m79900]

I believe some electronic displays were being put up in Hatton at the weekend as well so maybe they are being put up in a number of places.

Wirksworth has some now.

 

[Flange Squeal]

I live near the border of two counties and the difference is quite extreme. Surrey maintain their own stops with at minimum a basic flag often with timetable case, but on many routes full flags with stop name, route numbers, direction, a sticker if in somewhere like the Woking Travelwide ticket area, and timetables for each route. Route changes usually see things updated in advance of the changes so they’re ready from day one.

Across the border in Hampshire, the stops are the responsibility of operators, at least in these parts. This can result in stops served by four buses per hour of a major National operator with no timetable case and a small square flag with a bus symbol with faded logo of an operator that ceased trading over 22 years ago. Or arguably worse still, stops badged and timetabled up with a route that hasn’t existed for x number of years. There are a scattering of Hampshire County Council branded flags with the novelty of stop name/direction and route numbers, particularly at places like railway stations, but the speed at which these are updated can vary. With the timetable cases having operator produced literature in them, I presume the council provides the new flag then leaves it in the hands of the operators.

 

[Titfield]

The original OP says "unexpected".

The operator is required to tell the local authority that the service is being changed or cancelled at least 28 days before informing the Traffic Commissioner (TC) and the operator must apply to the TC at least 42 days before the service changes or stops - or 56 days before if the service is in Wales.

This should give the local authority ample time to amend any bus stop timetables etc.

It is no good (as I once found out) sticking a revised timetable notice over the timetable case to cover up the incorrect information. It was removed by an authority employee who informed me that anything at all stuck on timetable cases was removed as only official local authority notices could be displayed.

 

[JKP]

The original OP says "unexpected".

The operator is required to tell the local authority that the service is being changed or cancelled at least 28 days before informing the Traffic Commissioner (TC) and the operator must apply to the TC at least 42 days before the service changes or stops - or 56 days before if the service is in Wales.

This should give the local authority ample time to amend any bus stop timetables etc.

It is no good (as I once found out) sticking a revised timetable notice over the timetable case to cover up the incorrect information. It was removed by an authority employee who informed me that anything at all stuck on timetable cases was removed as only official local authority notices could be displayed.

It is also 56 days to start, change or cancel a service in Scotland.

I think you are assuming that the local authority has the staff to carry out any changes. Sadly that is not always the case.

The local bus stop displays in my area have not displayed timetables for some considerable time due to frequent timetable changes post Covid due to restrictions and the driver shortage. All carry a reference to the principal operators app or to Traveline.

 

[domcoop7]

In Lancashire (so far as I know - it's a big place!) the County Council do all the stops (obviously not including Blackburn and Blackpool which are outside of County Council control). They even put temporary "bus stop closed" notices due to roadworks which I find surprising given many Lancashire stops don't have a timetable case and outside of Preston City Centre they don't have route numbers so you'd have no way of knowing whether a bus was supposed to be coming or not!

However what I found interesting is that by law the public transport functions are separate from the highways functions, so if they want to change a stop, for example, the transport team has to apply for permission to highways to do this - i.e. they have to formally ask themselves for permission to change their own assets on their own roads, although as I understand it the permission can't be outright refused unless there's a potential safety risk (e.g. they want to relocate a stop too close to a junction or a crossing). Even more oddly (to me at least) is that bus shelters can be owned by the District Council or even a parish council, by private companies (if they are advertising shelters), by the County Council in some rare cases (usually the principal Town / City Centre stops) or jointly between the County and boroughs which in Lancashire at least covers a lot of standard shelter types that were installed in the mid to late 90s under a scheme where each borough has a different colour shelter.

Bus companies outside of PTE areas that also install their own flags seem to have historically "inherited" the responsibility from pre-deregulation days, although some newer companies do it where that may not have been the case in the past. Transdev obviously do it with their Harrogate and Coasliner branded bus flags even though North Yorkshire Council do their own, although again I notice that they don't do it in the City of York council area. In days gone by I recall National Express having their own flags and stickers on the local bus stops in some Lancashire stops, but I haven't seen that recently.

However it seems that the legal situation is actually a bit iffy and having just read a blog from someone who worked at Surrey County Council certainly that authority took the view that a bus stop flag is a "Traffic Sign" and under the Road Traffic Act the flag has to comply with the Traffic Signs Regulations and General Directions and need to be installed by or on behalf of the Highways Authority or some authorised body.

 

[NorthernSpirit]

In West Yorkshire its left up to the Combined Authority to update the timetables, most of the stops still have a now faded generic poster that were inserted into the cases during 2020 with the rest actually having a timetable. Meanwhile in Leeds the timetable posters are slightly different to the standard Metro fayre as they seem to be produced by Moovit (especially the ones on Park Row and there is also a network map (this is something that I pushed for as it would be a great benefit for university students, tourists and locals). Personally though I'd would have rather see Metro use Traveline template as the bases of producing at-stop timetables or at least on routes provided by only one operator by having the operator themselves to provide and update the timetable accordingly.

 

[Scott1]

Just checked, and it looks very much like a Derbyshire County Council responsibility. Confirmed by a passing Hulleys driver, who had hard copy timetables to offer (and had dropped one off to the village shop a few days back) but has no ability to update times on stops.

Presumably Derbyshire's £47m BSIP (bus service improvement plan) money can't be used for anything as un-innovative as getting the correct timetables displayed, or (from my experience today) employing staff to answer the phone to hear that you've let people down.

If you email [email protected] they will either update or advise you the operator needs to do it (Trentbarton look after their own). I wouldn't bother calling as you will only get the generic customer service team, who will then have to email it onwards. It helps if you can tell them the stop ID number or name too.

 

[mmh]

Usually the Local Authority's responsibility - there will be a street care team or a public transport team who take care of it.

Or, if your Local Authority is Conwy, there will be a team doing nothing.

Every bus stop still has "we can't provide times due to Covid, scan this QR code" on them. For the 4th year, in the area in Wales with the highest proportion of elderly residents. The QR code doesn't work, apparently, and all the tourists who come here don't matter, it seems.

 

[markymark2000]

Or, if your Local Authority is Conwy, there will be a team doing nothing.

Every bus stop still has "we can't provide times due to Covid, scan this QR code" on them. For the 4th year, in the area in Wales with the highest proportion of elderly residents. The QR code doesn't work, apparently, and all the tourists who come here don't matter, it seems.

Flintshire is exactly the same. Still GHA timetables up in many areas and in their revamped Mold Bus Station (which for a new/revamped bus station in the UK, it's dismal, not even any next bus displays) it's all just signs saying cant display timetables due to Covid. The only parts of Conwy with bus times is where TrawsCymru have funded next bus displays (like Betws-Y-Coed and Llandudno Junction Station) but even these are scheduled times, not live times.

Denbighshire doesn't tend to update any bus stop timetables. I think Arriva do their own timetables for Rhyl (Which involves just printing out their website auto generated timetable and sticking that up).

Wrexham doesn't do anything for bus stop timetables.
Anglesey did have timetables that looked updated when I was there.
Gwynedd varied by area.
Blaneau Gwent operators do it themselves.
Monmouthshire tends not to do bus stop timetables in many cases (Abergavenny bus station, a key interchange hub between routes and there are 5 stands, none labelled for passengers, only drivers know which is which and where they stop. No timetables).
Carmarthenshire, you are lucky if you get a bus stop flag, let alone anything else. Their policy is they prefer to do road markings for bus stops rather than flags. Only issue is, most of it's rural areas which get neither road markings nor flag.

Anyone noticing a pattern here?

 

[Llandudno]

And I thought the Senedd told us they were pro public transport….!

 

[Whistler40145]

In Blackpool, all local buses are operated by Blackpool Transport and they deal with changing timetables at bus stops

 

[markymark2000]

And I thought the Senedd told us they were pro public transport….!

Sadly the councils don't agree. Most Welsh councils have done all they can to actively discourage public transport usage.

 

[Man of Kent]

In Blackpool, all local buses are operated by Blackpool Transport and they deal with changing timetables at bus stops

Blackpool Transport is not the sole operator in the town - there are at least three others: Preston Bus, Stagecoach and Transpora.