Bus tickets/fares

[DJ_K666]

...Some guards barely glance at the ticket - I don't know how they read it! Again, this occurs more on regional services.

I have to admit when I'm at work and a passenger gets on my bus I quite often don't look hard at their ticket. I look at date and price, as that way I can tell the validity at a glance. You can usually tell who is trying to hide by their body language and how they have their thumb over the date...

 

[moonrakerz]

Absolute daylight robbery; £4 for a single to go little over a mile!!

Now let me think .......... who charges £4 for just over 300 yds ?? Leicester Sq to Covent Garden.................timed at 45 secs

 

[Deerfold]

From what I could see, there was only Stagecoach operating buses.. and the bus we paid £4 each on only ran every two hours, and was still over ten minutes late. Suddenly I feel like we've got it so easy down here.

Perhaps we should send Londoners up there every now and then so they appreciate their buses a bit more.

I remember being a bit shocked in 1992, I went from Pooley Bridge to Penrith for £2.05 at a time when my bus to school in West Yorkshire was 30p for about half the distance). I expected fares to be higher outside a PTE but that was a shock.

(I don't normally remember every bus fare but that one stuck in my head!)

 

[jon0844]

While I do use buses in London, I don't actually live in London and out in Hertfordshire, we've had our fair share of cuts in services - but even though fares are quite high, they've still got a long way to go!

My bus is a flat rate of £1.30, and I think it's £1.80 return (I don't know, I have a season ticket) which isn't bad. Obviously there are higher fares, but usually for much longer distances. To be honest, I don't know if Stagecoach charged £4 single and perhaps £4.10 return, but the £4 is still mad!

 

[DJ_K666]

Sounds like the bus drivers who instantly 'reject' any ticket with a different operator's logo on it, without even reading it! (Usually when I try to board with an "Explorer" ticket - the point of which is that you can use it on just about any bus!)
Although I do see drivers check the prices/date as you say, and question themselves, they usually say out loud "£1.30? What's that fare... oh wait it's a child ticket" :P and yes, once I have been accused of being a fare dodger, but I was just being clumsy as usual and didn't notice my finger was over the date

No I always look for the word Explorer and if it's another operator's ticket I take an interest. Bit regarding the price thing I know how much an explorer is so again if it's £7 then it's probably an explorer. I actually quite laid back I just use the date/price thing as a way to make my job easier. Same with other companies' staff passes, I just wave them on regardless of inter-availability arrangements as we all do the same job.
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Although, you have to admit that bus tickets are easier for drivers to determine validity. My local Stagecoach buses don't accept anything accept their own tickets (not even plusbus is available) - much to my annoyance!

They are indeed. Although I think they use laser heat printing rather than ink so no chance of fading unlike some rail tickets I have seen in my time...
Stagecoach are the same down here too. Extortionate and can't keep time as every pensioner who gets on has to state their destination and every ticket has to be done separately. I won't say Brighton and Hove (who I work for) are perfect but there has to be a line drawn somewhere.

 

[tinselworm]

While I do use buses in London, I don't actually live in London and out in Hertfordshire, we've had our fair share of cuts in services - but even though fares are quite high, they've still got a long way to go!

My bus is a flat rate of £1.30, and I think it's £1.80 return (I don't know, I have a season ticket) which isn't bad. Obviously there are higher fares, but usually for much longer distances. To be honest, I don't know if Stagecoach charged £4 single and perhaps £4.10 return, but the £4 is still mad!

My bus charges £2.05 single, £3.70 return...

 

[pemma]

Anyone visiting Gibraltar gets a shock. Up until a few weeks ago the fares were 60p single, 90p return, £1.50 all day ticket. In the last couple of weeks they've made 4 bus routes completely free for all, so effectively the only people who have to pay now are people travelling to the Spanish border or Airport by bus.

In Cheshire there are quite a few operators so fares can vary quite a bit but the cheapest you're likely to find is £1.80 single and £3.50 return. Bus fares between towns are usually cheaper than train fares, not because buses are cheap but because the trains are so expensive. However, a short hop within a town on a bus is very expensive unless you're in a town/city with a free town/city centre bus.

 

[jon0844]

One day we'll get some joined up thinking on transport, which values taking people out of cars and getting them on to trains - making buses actually more important, even if running at a loss (based on the savings elsewhere, like reduced wear on roads, congestion with the cost to the economy etc).

I doubt it will be in our lifetime, but I have a pretty good bus service (not as good as it was) and can get to/from work without using the car at all. If buses run into the evening, I can even go out and take the bus home. If they finish at 5pm (as they seemed to in the Lake District) then it's back to the car!

(Sorry this should all be broken off into another thread)

 

[12CSVT]

Perhaps we should send Londoners up there every now and then so they appreciate their buses a bit more.

I remember being a bit shocked in 1992, I went from Pooley Bridge to Penrith for £2.05 at a time when my bus to school in West Yorkshire was 30p for about half the distance). I expected fares to be higher outside a PTE but that was a shock.

(I don't normally remember every bus fare but that one stuck in my head!)

Back in 1985, for a visit to Tinsley depot, I got the bus from Sheffield to Brinsworth (about 5 - 6 miles) and the fare was only 10p

 

[WestCoast]

Don't get me on the subject of bus fares! In some areas, they are the biggest rip off ever. All I will say is that if you don't have a decent, good value municipal or independent operator (rare) and you don't live in a PTE area (Or London) - you are likely to be stuffed.

The PTEs are generally quite good, but some of the County Councils are pretty rubbish - both Lancashire and Cumbria CC seem to fall into this category.

A few years ago, this was one of my local fares (2.5 miles):
-Monday to Friday, Stagecoach operated the service (on behalf of the CC) - £3.50 day ticket.
-Weekends, the CC paid a small local operator - £5.55 return. No day ticket or weekly ticket. Didn't accept Stagecoach weekly tickets.

The situation is confusing and is enough to put more cars on the road!

 

[MidnightFlyer]

Transdev's route 152 bus around here (Preston-Blackburn-Burnley) is £5.10 single from Preston-Cherry Tree or £7.50 return!!!

 

[WestCoast]

Transdev's route 152 bus around here (Preston-Blackburn-Burnley) is £5.10 single from Preston-Cherry Tree or £7.50 return!!!

The single alone is dearer than the return on the train (£4.70 or £3.10 railcard) - I bet it's mainly pensioners going to full distance on the bus isn't it?

It's a situation repeated in a lot of non-PTE areas.

While were on the subject of fares, West Yorkshire Metro area has very good value fares on both the trains and buses. I am always surprised at how low the fares are in comparison to other areas, thanks to the subsidies!

 

[flymo]

Over here in Hong Kong, the HK Island routes of Citybus have not gone up since 1997 !! The Government has the final 'yay' or 'nay' to fare rises and they are dependent on investment in services among other things. No investment, no fare rises is the basic system. A few new buses are now being introduced so no doubt the fares may rise soon.:cry:

 

[WestCoast]

Over here in Hong Kong, the HK Island routes of Citybus have not gone up since 1997 !! The Government has the final 'yay' or 'nay' to fare rises and they are dependent on investment in services among other things. No investment, no fare rises is the basic system. A few new buses are now being introduced so no doubt the fares may rise soon.:cry:

Whereas with some private bus companies in the UK - it's zero investment and year-on-year fare increases.

 

[SS4]

Bus fares in Birmingham are not too bad and Centro have done a good job by introducing the one day nbus for £3.80 compared to NXWM's only one day of £3.60 the former letting you use all the buses in the West Midlands

 

[WestCoast]

Bus fares in Birmingham are not too bad and Centro have done a good job by introducing the one day nbus for £3.80 compared to NXWM's only one day of £3.60 the former letting you use all the buses in the West Midlands

It's fine when you have "the protection" of a PTE, when you don't have that, the bus companies can in effect, charge whatever they want. As long as it is cheaper than a taxi, they can get away with it.

 

[radamfi]

Bus fares in Birmingham are not too bad and Centro have done a good job by introducing the one day nbus for £3.80 compared to NXWM's only one day of £3.60 the former letting you use all the buses in the West Midlands

How is this regulated? As far as I was aware, all joint operator tickets, PTE or not, need the agreement of all participating operators and operators are not obliged to be part of the agreement. Also I don't believe PTE subsidy is allowed to keep the price down.

One of the 'remedies' mentioned in the recent Competition Commission report was to impose joint operator ticketing and to ban operators significantly undercutting them with their single company tickets.

 

[Deerfold]

Transdev's route 152 bus around here (Preston-Blackburn-Burnley) is £5.10 single from Preston-Cherry Tree or £7.50 return!!!

That's quite shocking when Transdev Keighley and District have a peak day ticket covering all their routes at £4.20 (off peak at £3.30).

 

[starrymarkb]

I've heard Southern Vectis are eye wateringly expensive.

Last year three of us went from Exeter to Dawlish. By bus - £6 each, by train £6.70 for all three of us!

 

[BrummyBoy]

Bus fares in Birmingham are not too bad and Centro have done a good job by introducing the one day nbus for £3.80 compared to NXWM's only one day of £3.60 the former letting you use all the buses in the West Midlands

To be honest bys fares in Birmingham do seem to be quite well priced along with frequent buses (its just a shame there often late and running in pairs).

 

[LE Greys]

I remember the normal fare in Aberdeen being £1 for a mid-band single journey in 2004, then going up in 10p increments per year even since, and is now £1:80. It's also an exact fare area, which resulted in them owing me at least a tenner in overpayments each time they went up. The other annoying thing is that they place lists of when the buses arrive, and where the fare bands apply, but not where they actually go. This gives you things like this:

• Linksfield
• Balgownie Road
• Danestone

Fine if you know where they are, but what about King's College, Seaton Drive or Bridge of Don, which are on the same route and get plenty of passengers, but are not on the timetable? How do you find them when you don't have a map?

I have to admit when I'm at work and a passenger gets on my bus I quite often don't look hard at their ticket. I look at date and price, as that way I can tell the validity at a glance. You can usually tell who is trying to hide by their body language and how they have their thumb over the date...

I managed to hand over the wrong ticket the yestreday. If that was not bad enough, the correct one had a load of notes scribbled on the back. Clot of the week nomination for that.

 

[shinkansen1966]

How is this regulated? As far as I was aware, all joint operator tickets, PTE or not, need the agreement of all participating operators and operators are not obliged to be part of the agreement. Also I don't believe PTE subsidy is allowed to keep the price down.

One of the 'remedies' mentioned in the recent Competition Commission report was to impose joint operator ticketing and to ban operators significantly undercutting them with their single company tickets.

Would it possible to run public transport in the West Midlands as it is run in London, complete with a TfWM (Transport for West Midlands). This would allow
- unitary provision of bus service with flat fares
- all train/bus fares and timetables set by a TfWM
- introduction of the Oyster card to the West Midlands
- co-ordination of public transport so that things connect, and passengers are given alternatives when one bus or rail route goes wrong.

Would it only require a change in the law so you'd have TfWM exactly like a TfL ? And with same powers and duties ?

 

[SS4]

Would it possible to run public transport in the West Midlands as it is run in London, complete with a TfWM (Transport for West Midlands). This would allow
- unitary provision of bus service with flat fares
- all train/bus fares and timetables set by a TfWM
- introduction of the Oyster card to the West Midlands
- co-ordination of public transport so that things connect, and passengers are given alternatives when one bus or rail route goes wrong.

Would it only require a change in the law so you'd have TfWM exactly like a TfL ? And with same powers and duties ?

That is something I'd like to see but I can't see it happening. NXWM (who, to all intents and purposes run the buses here) have recently (recently in terms of bus stock that is!) introduced new stock with low flooring and I suspect it would cost too much to cut them off mid-tender.
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There is already some form of interoperability. I remember when there was a problem shutting the Cross City north train tickets up to Sutton Coldfield were being accepted on the 904 and for beyond accepted on the 902.

The only thing that could be of concern with alternative routes is that, unlike London, Birmingham (and I think West Brom and Wolves have the same issue) has a wheel and spoke layout heading out from the centre so it would cause untold congestion at BHM.

 

[Deerfold]

Would it possible to run public transport in the West Midlands as it is run in London, complete with a TfWM (Transport for West Midlands). This would allow
- unitary provision of bus service with flat fares
- all train/bus fares and timetables set by a TfWM
- introduction of the Oyster card to the West Midlands
- co-ordination of public transport so that things connect, and passengers are given alternatives when one bus or rail route goes wrong.

Would it only require a change in the law so you'd have TfWM exactly like a TfL ? And with same powers and duties ?

Pretty much. West Yorkshire's Metro are trying to go that way.

That is something I'd like to see but I can't see it happening. NXWM (who, to all intents and purposes run the buses here) have recently (recently in terms of bus stock that is!) introduced new stock with low flooring and I suspect it would cost too much to cut them off mid-tender.

But at the moment surely they don't have tenders? If they've new buses it will be of benefit to them when they bid for the new network.

 

[shinkansen1966]

Pretty much. West Yorkshire's Metro are trying to go that way.

And their approach is to be commended. Outside London and judging by the WYMetro website, it's the nearest there is to an holistic integrated approach. Now what about the introduction of smartcards there ? Just like the Oyster card which we have in London ?

 

[snail]

I want to know why it is so difficult to obtain bus fares information on the web. It is useful when travelling out of my home area to be able to work out whether I should pay individual fares, whether returns are available or if a day ticket would be better.

 

[Techniquest]

So true. That Coastliner service from Leeds/York to Malton/Pickering/Whitby is a service I wanted to use for the NYMR diesel gala later this year, as the rail service is awful. No fares information or even a timetable could be found! Plans now changed, partly based on poor information provided.

My local operator's very good indeed. Fares available on the website, as is the timetable. £3.60 single, £5.40 return. At approximately 22 miles via the core route, 25.5 miles the other way, each way that fare's exceptional. No peak fares, hourly service for the majority of the day and early/late services in each direction. Modern buses too!

 

[causton]

Semi-related, but is there a map showing what routes I can use the Birmingham PlusBus ticket on? The maps on the PB website are good but don't show any actual roads, or bus routes! Not being familar with the area I was wondering if there was a better map (I have looked but not found yet) so I can see which buses I can use...

 

[Statto]

That's quite shocking when Transdev Keighley and District have a peak day ticket covering all their routes at £4.20 (off peak at £3.30).

First Manchester have similar fares, were it's cheaper to buy the Day ticket than a single fare even for a journery such as Bolton-Leigh which i think costs more than the First Day ticket £4:20.

I've noticed most companies only list Explorer type of ticket fares & don't have single fares on there websites, which is annoying when some companies like National Express West Midlands still have exact fare only policys.
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Come to think of it, which company has the most expensive fares for short journeys, i think Arriva Wales charge something over £2:50 for a 15 min journey.

 

[causton]

Come to think of it, which company has the most expensive fares for short journeys, i think Arriva Wales charge something over £2:50 for a 15 min journey.

TfL's £2.20 flat cash rate anywhere anytime - have seen people taking a bus *down* a hill three stops - the driver questioned them but they still got on to go to the tube station! You can almost see the station from the High Street...