Bus with Shortest working lives

[Statto]

Merseyside PTE brought Willowbrook body Dennis Dominators in 1980, numbered 0024 to 0028, Merseybus never kept them selling them at d-reg, couple went to Maidstone, one to Hong Kong

 

[Statto]

Ah yes..... the Turkish Alights! Didn't they do a retrofit on the exhaust system to avoid a repetition?


We've had mention of an Excelsior Quest 80 coach, but what about the Locomotors Quest 80s that Merseyside got? Arrived in Spring 1985, all gone at deregulation 18 months later and shots of them in service are as rare as hen's teeth.

One of the issues with the Quests was, the various switches they had, if accidently pressed would cut off the engine[even if the vehicle was in motion] which then needed the fitter to get the engine restarted, Merseyside PTE brought 6 of them supposed to be given fleetnumbers 0082 to 0087, only 3 saw revenue service, but not for long, the remaining 3 weren't registered until after being sold on

 

[86247]

An operate in st helens had a ex mpte Quest 80 can't remember which one dont think it lasted long with them either.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Merseyside PTE brought Willowbrook body Dennis Dominators in 1980, numbered 0024 to 0028, Merseybus never kept them selling them at d-reg, couple went to Maidstone, one to Hong Kong

Given how long Dominators lasted with South Yorkshire, it's noticeable how many operators got rid of theirs early.

Darlington had two batches of Marshall single decks, (T and V regs) and the first batch went after about 9 years whilst K reg Fleetlines and M reg Seddons were retained. Merthyr Tydfil had similar ones and they lasted only 6/7 years. In both cases, Chester City Transport bought some of them!

East Staffs sold out to Stevos and they got rid of the Dominators to M&D which were only 4-7 years old but think Peddle preferred to have cheaper, simpler ex London DMS Fleetlines instead.

 

[delt1c]

Not to mention Malta ...

Saw one in Malta ( substantially rebuilt ) around 4 years ago. From offside you could tell it was a swift by widow arrangement. However haven’t seen it since. Also saw an RML here parked up on property with full route 38 branding.

 

[matthewbirkett]

An operate in st helens had a ex mpte Quest 80 can't remember which one dont think it lasted long with them either.

David Tanner Travel, St Helens had one in a blue and cream livery, probably around 1995.

 

[Statto]

Given how long Dominators lasted with South Yorkshire, it's noticeable how many operators got rid of theirs early.

Darlington had two batches of Marshall single decks, (T and V regs) and the first batch went after about 9 years whilst K reg Fleetlines and M reg Seddons were retained. Merthyr Tydfil had similar ones and they lasted only 6/7 years. In both cases, Chester City Transport bought some of them!

East Staffs sold out to Stevos and they got rid of the Dominators to M&D which were only 4-7 years old but think Peddle preferred to have cheaper, simpler ex London DMS Fleetlines instead.

One irony, was the Alexander body Dominators Merseyside PTE brought were kept by Merseybus, lasted about 10 years longer with Merseybus than the Willowbrook ones did. Willowbrook body was sure ugly though, hence Merseybus rebuilding Willowbrook Atlantean 1847 which they called Merseymaid

 

[86247]

David tanner yes thats the one thanks for jogging my memory sure I had a ride on it, it felt weird I didn't know how rare it was at the time.The merseymaid was allocated to laird Street so did cross river routes regularly think it was painted a pinky red livery when I first saw it. Plus it was coach seated.

 

[busesrusuk]

Again, some context required. The earlier Volvo B7's did leave the fleet sooner than some others but primarily because of TfL requirements. They wanted to get rid of the centre staircase buses as soon as practical and they were also Euro 2/3 engines which meant they were not acceptable for later contract awards.

There was nothing inherently wrong with the buses other than they didn't meet the ever changing specifications of TfL and they soon found buyers around the country including as you said to other Go Ahead op co's. When I left GAL last year I still had a fleet of PVL's in the training school..

 

[busesrusuk]

Again, some context required. The earlier Volvo B7's did leave the fleet sooner than some others but primarily because of TfL requirements. They wanted to get rid of the centre staircase buses as soon as practical and they were also Euro 2/3 engines which meant they were not acceptable for later contract awards.

There was nothing inherently wrong with the buses other than they didn't meet the ever changing specifications of TfL and they soon found buyers around the country including as you said to other Go Ahead op co's. When I left GAL last year I still had a fleet of PVL's in the training school..

This was in reply to CNJB8 in message No33 - sorry for any confusion but thought I had added the original message to my reply. Apologies for any confusion...

 

[DunsBus]

There was a C-reg Busways Olympian, one of a batch of 65, that was written off in a nasty (and sadly, fatal) accident in Newcastle when nine months old. It was new to Tyne & Wear PTE in January 1986, passing with the PTE fleet to Busways that October and would last for just three days under Busways ownership.

 

[robertclark125]

Quest has already been mentioned. Excelsior of Bournemouth bought several, but didn't know how long they stayed.

 

[jammy36]

Quest has already been mentioned. Excelsior of Bournemouth bought several, but didn't know how long they stayed.

Ah yes the Quest 80 VM another of Telford's finest (although coaches rather than buses so not totally relevant to this thread).

Excelsior placed an order for 20 rear engineered Quest 80 VMs (apparently named for Vernon Maitland, then MD of Excelsior) with Plaxton coachwork in 1983. The order was for 20 coaches, 19 to 12m length and a sole 11m example. Only 17 were ever delivered, all 12m examples arriving between March and May 1984. It's fair to say they were mechanically troublesome. It's been reported that two Quest engineers were permanently based at Excelsior's depot in order to help deal with numerous issues arising. I've also heard the (? apocryphal) take of a driver who managed to get through six coaches in one seven day tour!! A823LEL had the shortest life with Excelsior, being destroyed by fire when six weeks old. I've also heard that one ignited at Plaxton's factory, but was repaired for delivery. Given their reliability Excelsior also acquired five unbodied chassis (stock or a cancelled order?) for spares. None of the Quest VMs lasted more than two seasons with Excelsior (although to be fair Excelsior rarely kept vehicles for long, instead opting for rolling renewal).

If the bus and coach chassis are bad, best not to mention Quest's truck chassis!

The above is from memory, but should be broadly accurate.

 

[Tetchytyke]

Among the last new buses purchased by Merseyside PTE in 1985 were six Quest 80 single decks, which were of low floor design for disabled passengers. Only one or two entered service but they were stored and sold as Merseybus didn't want them

And they'd win any ugliest bus awards too:

Sovereign Bus & Coach C844 OBG Quest 80B Locomotors. Showbus Rally Woburn Abbey 29.9.91

www.flickr.com

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Ah yes the Quest 80 VM another of Telford's finest (although coaches rather than buses so not totally relevant to this thread).

Excelsior placed an order for 20 rear engineered Quest 80 VMs (apparently named for Vernon Maitland, then MD of Excelsior) with Plaxton coachwork in 1983. The order was for 20 coaches, 19 to 12m length and a sole 11m example. Only 17 were ever delivered, all 12m examples arriving between March and May 1984. It's fair to say they were mechanically troublesome. It's been reported that two Quest engineers were permanently based at Excelsior's depot in order to help deal with numerous issues arising. I've also heard the (? apocryphal) take of a driver who managed to get through six coaches in one seven day tour!! A823LEL had the shortest life with Excelsior, being destroyed by fire when six weeks old. I've also heard that one ignited at Plaxton's factory, but was repaired for delivery. Given their reliability Excelsior also acquired five unbodied chassis (stock or a cancelled order?) for spares. None of the Quest VMs lasted more than two seasons with Excelsior (although to be fair Excelsior rarely kept vehicles for long, instead opting for rolling renewal).

If the bus and coach chassis are bad, best not to mention Quest's truck chassis!

The above is from memory, but should be broadly accurate.

Sounds pretty accurate. Think they were notable for the bodies where they didn't have the Paramount feature window (VM specified them that way as he didn't like it?) and also introduced the low driving position to the Paramount range?



Despite the successes of Optare, they also had a number of designs that lasted little time with original owners.

The Cardiff Bus Excels have already been mentioned but seem to recall that other Mk1 users also got rid of theirs early. Trent sold many of theirs prematurely IIRC, and Go North East were flogging theirs off after only 6/7 years for use as school buses in Ireland.

The Vecta was a superb vehicle as a passenger but operators had a woeful time with them. Express Travel sold theirs at 4 years of age, ending up with Arriva NE who also gained others from across the group but they had a number that were parked up with less than 10 years service and allowed to decay in the back of Stockton depot (although some were repowered with Cummins units and so had decent lives). Trent had some with most being disposed of after 8 years with examples being donated to the Boxing Day Tsunami.

And then you had the Optare Alero......

 

[CBlue]

And they'd win any ugliest bus awards too:

Sovereign Bus & Coach C844 OBG Quest 80B Locomotors. Showbus Rally Woburn Abbey 29.9.91

www.flickr.com

Believe it or not C844OBG still survives, in preservation.

 

[jammy36]

Think they were notable for the bodies where they didn't have the Paramount feature window (VM specified them that way as he didn't like it?) and also introduced the low driving position to the Paramount range?

Yes, the omission of the feature window was at the personal request of 'Mister Vernon' due to his detesting of what he called 'the bog window'. Plaxton complied with his requirement as Excelsior were a major customer. I believe the 12m Paramount structure had to be revised to meet this demand, so Excelsior's first 12m ones (DAFs) still had the window. The window was omitted from the 11m ones from the start as this didn't require changes to the structure, just the use of a different sized window.

I think your right about the low driving position too.

And then you had the Optare Alero......

Argh don't go there (shudders with the horror)!

 

[Tetchytyke]

Optare Alero

I remember these when they were put on the Durham Cathedral shuttle bus, started when they brought in congestion charges along the Bailey. They seemed nice enough to ride on (when I was lazy/it was raining and caught one to the train station after lectures), had Iveco mechanicals, etc. What was so bad about them?

 

[LOL The Irony]

Yes, the omission of the feature window was at the personal request of 'Mister Vernon' due to his detesting of what he called 'the bog window'. Plaxton complied with his requirement as Excelsior were a major customer. I believe the 12m Paramount structure had to be revised to meet this demand, so Excelsior's first 12m ones (DAFs) still had the window. The window was omitted from the 11m ones from the start as this didn't require changes to the structure, just the use of a different sized window.

Was the bog window that silly window that was randomly lower than the rest?

 

[carlberry]

Was the bog window that silly window that was randomly lower than the rest?

No, the one next to it. It's on this one:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/jncarter1962/44926070674/

But not on this one:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/83759853@N04/8464258639/

Plaxton added it, with their name shown on it, however it's annoying to passengers as it restricts visibility from those seats.

 

[LOL The Irony]

No, the one next to it. It's on this one:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/jncarter1962/44926070674/

But not on this one:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/83759853@N04/8464258639/

Plaxton added it, with their name shown on it, however it's annoying to passengers as it restricts visibility from those seats.

Yeah, I'm glad this guy wanted them removed.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

I remember these when they were put on the Durham Cathedral shuttle bus, started when they brought in congestion charges along the Bailey. They seemed nice enough to ride on (when I was lazy/it was raining and caught one to the train station after lectures), had Iveco mechanicals, etc. What was so bad about them?

They had Iveco mechanicals....and Optare electrics. They were fantastically unreliable; Go Ahead had one on loan from Durham CC that passed to Arriva NE when they bought Bishop depot. It was often replaced by a Metrorider or MPD though sometimes, it was because of a shortage of drivers who could use a manual gearbox.

 

[jp4712]

I suppose that if we’re including ones that never even made it to service, the record breakers would probably be the ten Bristol VRs with East Lancs bodies ordered by Stockport Corporation. SELNEC absorbed Stockport in November 1969 but by January 1970 all ten were finished or almost finished at the East Lancs works in Blackburn, in SELNEC orange and off-white. The night before the first few were due to be delivered, there was a disastrous fire at the East Lancs factory that destroyed the lot! So they never even made it to Stockport. I know someone who had been at the factory the previous week and saw them, but so far as I know no photo exists. They would have been SELNEC 5898 - 5907.

The Wulfrunian was kind of ‘apart from’ mentioned up thread, but they really do deserve a dishonourable mention. The Lancashire United one, number 58, was so appalling that it could go through a set of brake pads in one trip to Bolton and back and due to the front suspension creating negative camber, tyres generally lasted about 1,000 miles even after swapping round to even out the wear.

 

[Mikey C]

Again, some context required. The earlier Volvo B7's did leave the fleet sooner than some others but primarily because of TfL requirements. They wanted to get rid of the centre staircase buses as soon as practical and they were also Euro 2/3 engines which meant they were not acceptable for later contract awards.

There was nothing inherently wrong with the buses other than they didn't meet the ever changing specifications of TfL and they soon found buyers around the country including as you said to other Go Ahead op co's. When I left GAL last year I still had a fleet of PVL's in the training school..

Some of Stagecoach London's early Tridents had a deliberately short life in London, as they had the low height bodywork that Stagecoach preferred outside of London, and which didn't meet TfL's requirements

 

[LOL The Irony]

I suppose that if we’re including ones that never even made it to service, the record breakers would probably be the ten Bristol VRs with East Lancs bodies ordered by Stockport Corporation. SELNEC absorbed Stockport in November 1969 but by January 1970 all ten were finished or almost finished at the East Lancs works in Blackburn, in SELNEC orange and off-white. The night before the first few were due to be delivered, there was a disastrous fire at the East Lancs factory that destroyed the lot! So they never even made it to Stockport. I know someone who had been at the factory the previous week and saw them, but so far as I know no photo exists. They would have been SELNEC 5898 - 5907.

I think we have a(some) winner(s)! Unless there were vehicles in that fire that were still under construction, although I wonder if that'll count as they wouldn't be complete.

 

[37114]

I think we have a(some) winner(s)! Unless there were vehicles in that fire that were still under construction, although I wonder if that'll count as they wouldn't be complete.

There was an early London Stagecoach trident destroyed in a fire in the paint shop at Alexander's I recall

Edit just checked, I think it was TA74, it was complete and had been registered

 

[86247]

what about the Forden NC double decker the only one I've seen a pic of is PMT WVT 900S, said on wiki that they had short lives with operates.

 

[DunsBus]

Two from Ireland, both involving CIE Bombardiers.

The original KC124 is another contender for the "0 miles in service" category, being written off on its delivery run after a runaway fire tender ran into it. The KC124 which eventually arrived was a renumbered KC174.

Meanwhile KD111 lasted just a few months in service before losing an argument with a bin lorry. An extra bus was added on to the CIE order as a replacement and this became KD366.

Returning to the UK, there was that brand-new First Beeline Dennis Dart which was written off at Pooley Green level crossing in 2000 after being hit by an SWT class 455. If I recall correctly, the Dart had only been in service for around six weeks.

 

[Tetchytyke]

They had Iveco mechanicals....and Optare electrics. They were fantastically unreliable

That makes sense! They always seemed nice enough as a passenger.

Having not seen one for donkey's years, I went past one in Ballasalla this evening done out as a "limo"

CIE Bombardiers.

Crumbs, that bus is even uglier than the Quest 80s.

I wonder if there's a link between looks and reliability?

 

[cnjb8]

There are a lot of similar examples of early life cascading in Stagecoach and First but they did go on to have long lives in other OpCos.

Think we’re looking more at the utter failures or accident victims that had short working lives.

Ah I see my mistake now, sorry