But what if Conductor won't sell you a ticket?

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6Gman

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On a couple of recent occasions I've arrived at the last minute for trains, faced a lengthy booking office queue, so joined the train [yes, I know, I know but bear with me] and sought out the Conductor in order to purchase a ticket.

On the first occasion I produced my PT card, asked for the tickets and was waved away. The gist of the response was "you're railway; don't bother; get a single back if you have to ...". Despite my protestations she actually refused to sell me a ticket!

On the second occasion the conductor actually winked, and said "we're all railway", but did - eventually - agree to sell me the ticket!

How do I square my personal honesty, their 'generosity', my continued possession of a PT Card, and their continued possession of a job?
 
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big_dirt

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Do what every "normal" passenger is advised to do:

Give yourself adequate time to purchase a ticket.
Do not board a train without a ticket where there are ticket purchasing facilities.
 

scotsman

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On a couple of recent occasions I've arrived at the last minute for trains, faced a lengthy booking office queue, so joined the train [yes, I know, I know but bear with me] and sought out the Conductor in order to purchase a ticket.

On the first occasion I produced my PT card, asked for the tickets and was waved away. The gist of the response was "you're railway; don't bother; get a single back if you have to ...". Despite my protestations she actually refused to sell me a ticket!

On the second occasion the conductor actually winked, and said "we're all railway", but did - eventually - agree to sell me the ticket!

How do I square my personal honesty, their 'generosity', my continued possession of a PT Card, and their continued possession of a job?

Buy a ticket wherever feasible, accept their kindness and generosity as a perk of the job?
 

Rich McLean

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I know its inconvenient, but as others have said, either get there early, or wait for the next train
 

Wath Yard

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Buy a ticket wherever feasible, accept their kindness and generosity as a perk of the job?

Their kindness and generosity? Are they paying for the ticket for him? Or does their kindness and generosity only go so far as their employer losing revenue and the tax payer paying extra subsidy?
 

reb0118

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Just a thought, as Rail Staff Travel now administer most if not all of the 20 or more separate TOCs staff travel schemes, surely it would be more economical to administer one scheme? I have four separate types of staff travel card which get posted out to me at different times each year (or two).
I'm sure just issuing one card to all eligible staff/dependants would cut down on administrative costs - this would offset the extra potential free travel given.

There are hidden benefits to staff travel not limited to having trained personnel onboard when an incident occurs. Also by giving staff free travel we can generate extra business by dragging our mates on a jolly - I always try to promote the train to my mates.

By travelling by train as a passenger staff can see the other side of the equation and are more able to appreciate how the fare paying customer feels. By travelling frequently staff can pick up info from other TOCs and areas not limited to connectional advice, facilities at other stations, & scenic/touristic info for various destinations.

I personally buy privs when needed (some excelent advice on here has reduced the costs shomewhat) as I value my concessions but also I like to keep a hard copy of my travels - the priv ticket serves that purpose well.
 

transportphoto

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Volunteering on a heritage railway I have had one guard on the mainline who has out right refused to take my fare, it got to the point that I shoved the money in his face, he told me in no uncertain terms to shut up and he'll get me through the barrier at the other end.

TP
 

scotsman

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Their kindness and generosity? Are they paying for the ticket for him? Or does their kindness and generosity only go so far as their employer losing revenue and the tax payer paying extra subsidy?

No, but they'll take an absolute kicking if they're caught. It's called being nice to people, try it some time.
 

MidnightFlyer

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Please let's not start the old staff travel for free on different TOCs arguments, it's been done to death and usually gets heated.

To the OP, if the queue is bad at the station, find the guard before boarding and say 'I'm on a Priv, but the queue's bad at the booking office. Am I OK to buy onboard?' Usually they'll either say 'Yeah, no problem' or let you off for free. Rarely will they say 'No, wait for the next train', or wait until you board then issue you an undiscounted fare.

I'm not advocating the above by the way, it's the guard's discretion, and they are well aware of the consequences if they get caught by their superiors letting people off.
 

telstarbox

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I'm not trying to start an argument but is my understanding correct that in general: ex-BR staff are allowed free travel nationwide, whereas staff who joined after privatisation are allowed free travel on TOCs owned by the same company, plus PRIV boxes elsewhere?
 

MidnightFlyer

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I'm not trying to start an argument but is my understanding correct that in general: ex-BR staff are allowed free travel nationwide, whereas staff who joined after privatisation are allowed free travel on TOCs owned by the same company, plus PRIV boxes elsewhere?

I'm not 100% sure on the former but there's no boxes for post-BR staff, just free travel on your TOC (and boxes / free travel on TOCs under the same ownership, like First Group or Arriva) and 75% off Anytime and Season tickets (among others) nationwide, plus 33-75% discounts on Rangers, Rovers and Round Robins. I think there have been attempts to standardise what everyone gets, but there's a tripping point somewhere.
 

yorkie

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If it's not a Penalty Fare train from a Penalty Fare station, then seek the guard before boarding and ask if you can buy on board. Then comply with the instructions given. It really is as simple as that!

The rules state that the full Anytime fare will be payable, if there were facilities to buy before boarding, but if you seek staff then that may be waived. It's at their discretion.

There are several times I've asked to buy on board, and it's rare that I've been told only the full Anytime fare will be sold, and if I am told that I'll either pay it or I will let it go and wait for the next one.

As for staff allowing other staff to travel free, that's down to them, and I am aware of occasions when the off-duty staff member has stepped in to assist the staff when there have been troublemakers on the train. I think that the people who are upset about that need to get over it quite honestly. Let the staff do their job.

There is no need for trolling, unhelpful anti-rail staff remarks (which we will not tolerate and will remove).
 

6Gman

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If it's not a Penalty Fare train from a Penalty Fare station, then seek the guard before boarding and ask if you can buy on board. Then comply with the instructions given. It really is as simple as that!

The rules state that the full Anytime fare will be payable, if there were facilities to buy before boarding, but if you seek staff then that may be waived. It's at their discretion.

There are several times I've asked to buy on board, and it's rare that I've been told only the full Anytime fare will be sold, and if I am told that I'll either pay it or I will let it go and wait for the next one.

As for staff allowing other staff to travel free, that's down to them, and I am aware of occasions when the off-duty staff member has stepped in to assist the staff when there have been troublemakers on the train. I think that the people who are upset about that need to get over it quite honestly. Let the staff do their job.

There is no need for trolling, unhelpful anti-rail staff remarks (which we will not tolerate and will remove).

Thanks for that yorkie, which is a helpful summary. I'd be happy to talk to the guard pre-boarding, but that's often impossible with one-minute station dwells!
 

yorkie

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Thanks for that yorkie, which is a helpful summary. I'd be happy to talk to the guard pre-boarding, but that's often impossible with one-minute station dwells!
True, it's not always possible (unless you know where the guard will be!), in which case seek the guard.

There is no obligation to seek the guard when entitled to a discounted ticket, but when not entitled to one, that is a different matter, then seeking the guard increases your chances of being sold the appropriate fare rather than the full fare, as per the rules.
 

RJ

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On a couple of recent occasions I've arrived at the last minute for trains, faced a lengthy booking office queue, so joined the train [yes, I know, I know but bear with me] and sought out the Conductor in order to purchase a ticket.

On the first occasion I produced my PT card, asked for the tickets and was waved away. The gist of the response was "you're railway; don't bother; get a single back if you have to ...". Despite my protestations she actually refused to sell me a ticket!

On the second occasion the conductor actually winked, and said "we're all railway", but did - eventually - agree to sell me the ticket!

How do I square my personal honesty, their 'generosity', my continued possession of a PT Card, and their continued possession of a job?

If an authorised person permits you to travel without a valid ticket then no offence has been committed. An authorised person does not extend to any uniformed person who has no authority to grant such an action.
 

ANorthernGuard

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If an authorised person permits you to travel without a valid ticket then no offence has been committed. An authorised person does not extend to any uniformed person who has no authority to grant such an action.

to be put it blunt.... its up to the guard.

I know a few people take offence at staff giving other staff "a free ride" but as Yorkie has mentioned, it can come in handy if you need assistance and as I have always said (and always will, regardless of a few peoples views) We are one railway, privatisation attempted to cause a split between safe guarded and non safe guarded staff, which not only was stupid, it was down right mean.
 

455driver

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Say "thank you very much, if you need any help you know where I am", sit back and enjoy the ride.

As for those "moaning" about staff giving free travel to staff members of other TOCs when they are not entitled to it, can you answer me a question please.
I have to pay to travel on trains (of other TOCs) in this country but get pretty much free travel in several european countries, European railstaff get free travel all over our country any time of day, can you explain how that is sensible please?
 
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I'm not trying to start an argument but is my understanding correct that in general: ex-BR staff are allowed free travel nationwide, whereas staff who joined after privatisation are allowed free travel on TOCs owned by the same company, plus PRIV boxes elsewhere?

That is my understanding. I have colleagues who have a variety of passes, from standard class passes for the person in question to first class passes for the person in question + partner/spouse. There are the (theoretical) restrictions however:

1) Not supposed to use it for commuting or travelling on work. If you need to do that then you're supposed to get your company to pay, or pay yourself.
2) If 1st class is full, you're supposed to give up your seat for a fare paying passenger.

I practice I've never known anyone to stick to these rules.
 

34D

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1) Not supposed to use it for commuting or travelling on work. If you need to do that then you're supposed to get your company to pay, or pay yourself.

I don't believe this applies to a TOC's own pass, but yes believe does apply to priv.
 

RJ

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to be put it blunt.... its up to the guard.

In other words, yes. Not the platform dispatcher or gateline assistant! However, when I worked in the ticket office, I was authorised to grant free travel at my discretion through use of a special stamp, which the guards had to accept as an authority to travel.


That is my understanding. I have colleagues who have a variety of passes, from standard class passes for the person in question to first class passes for the person in question + partner/spouse. There are the (theoretical) restrictions however:

1) Not supposed to use it for commuting or travelling on work. If you need to do that then you're supposed to get your company to pay, or pay yourself.
2) If 1st class is full, you're supposed to give up your seat for a fare paying passenger.

I practice I've never known anyone to stick to these rules.

I found a legal way to circumvent the rule of not using Priv to commute to work, which was handy as the day tickets I was buying to commute were collectively a fraction of the price of the Priv season ticket :p. RSTL agreed with my findings so I was protected if any staff wanted to try and do me for such an "irregularity!"
 
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