Buying an ALR question

[RochdalePioneers]

I have two business trips to Croydon (from Teesside) coming up next week which need me be there early enough to mean Anytime Returns would be needed.

Now, 2x £275 is a lot of cash, and certainly more than £375 for an All Line Rover. So, a sneaky few days on a free ALR look likely - providing that plans don't abruptly change on Monday.

Question - if I turn up at Darlington station at 06:30 in the morning, would they be able to sell me one there and then? Website says advanced tickets and reservations only bit opens at 08:00 - but I'd want an ALR for immediate travel.

Can anyone tell me where in the fares manual they need to look so that I'd be able to get one?

 

[furryfeet]

just got this from seat61.com

You can buy Rail Rovers from any railway station or train operator telesales line. You can only buy one within 3 days of the date you want them to start (5 days for Rail Rovers bought from telesales). If you have any trouble buying a rail rover, ask them to look in section G of their fares manual. With full-fare returns for peak travel costing (for example) £202 for London-Manchester, it's cheaper to buy an All-Line Rail Rover then normal tickets even if all you need to do is travel London-Manchester on business in the peak twice in one week..! For information on rail rovers covering other areas call National Rail Enquiries on 08457 48 49 50.

http://www.seat61.com/UKtravel.htm#BritRail

 

[me123]

You can buy it as a walk up ticket, although they certainly won't be expecting it! But you're perfectly entitled to do so, but it's probably best to buy the day before if it's possible just to make sure that you get it on time for your train.

 

[metrocammel]

You could also in theory get in on the train, Avantix machines are more than capable of selling All Line Rovers- although not all NXEC guards have Avantix machines yet. That is a worst case scenario, as they shouldn't refuse at the t/o. As recommended by me123, it would be a fair idea to try buying it in advance- as you do sometimes get unhelpful ticket clerks.

 

[Mojo]

With modern ticket machines replacing APTIS, it's now much easier for ticket office staff to issue All Line Rovers and the instructions or barcodes from manuals no longer really need to be looked up.

 

[glynn80]

Yes you are perfectly entitled to purchase an ALR as a walk on fare. Darlington station is run by NXEC and they use a ticket issuing system called Tribute, many staff many be unfamiliar with issuing rovers/rangers, if your having trouble getting it issued, just ask the booking office clerk to use the "Products/Service" drop down menu at the top of the screen and then Rovers and Rangers option and its pretty self explanatory for them after that.

If you cannot get it issued at the booking office, ask them to put in writing that they were unable to issue the ticket and ask them to station stamp that, then when boarding the NXEC train speak to the guard and I'm pretty sure they'll be happy to help as IIRC they still work on a commission basis so a £375.00 will go down nicely.

 

[RochdalePioneers]

if I buy it in advance and then don't need it is it like another post-dated ticket in that I can get a refund?

 

[metrocammel]

Yes, minus the admin fee that will probably be charged.

 

[bluenoxid]

It depends how early you get to the station but if you get there early, wander up to the guard and tell him that you would like to travel and plan to purchase an ALR. If they've got commission it will be a nice little sum. Better to buy in advance but there is absolutely no excuse for them not to sell you it there and then

 

[RochdalePioneers]

thanks to everyone for all the advice and suggestions. In the end I managed to find time to get one from Thornaby last night. Took 2 minutes, ticket guy didn't bat an eyelid.

A massive change from when I used to buy various rovers 10 years back. So often they would be stuck....

 

[me123]

I have problems at Glasgow Central, but there's one man who knows what to do and gives me the same speech every time I buy one. "There's so many of these rovers, and they're good value..."

Then again, I was buying a Lancashire Day Ranger and Hadrians Wall Line Day Ranger (one woman was looking for Adrians Wall Line :roll so they're not quite as common as Freedom of Scotland or All Line Rover tickets.

 

[RochdalePioneers]

Quite a few ticket barrier bods have been puzzled by it today - Darlo 1st thing this morning, and most especially the guy at Euston as I was running to catch the 16:40 Manchester train which I nearly missed.

Anyway having fun so far. London to Darlington via Manchester home for my first Pendolino run - a 100% improvement over the Skoda/Mk3s combination of a decade ago.

 

[metrocammel]

Quite a few ticket barrier bods have been puzzled by it today - Darlo 1st thing this morning, and most especially the guy at Euston as I was running to catch the 16:40 Manchester train which I nearly missed.

Yes, barrier people don't seem to be trained in ALRs (or any rovers for that matter) A friend of mine was once on a training course for a barrier person, and he actually informed the course instructor about the various rovers(!)

Anyway having fun so far. London to Darlington via Manchester home for my first Pendolino run - a 100% improvement over the Skoda/Mk3s combination of a decade ago.

I suppose I can agree on the Skoda bit, but the mk3s I'm not so sure about! If you prefer a claustrophobic coach with inadequate luggage space, rather than an airy mk3, then fair enough!

I must admit, by the end of the Virgin loco-hauled days, they were getting rather tatty internally- though I've noticed this on some of the Pendo's- such as arm rests loose /dropping off.

The only benefit nowadays is that you don't have to endure the train as long, as it's quicker than it used to be

 

[ashworth]

Yes, barrier people don't seem to be trained in ALRs (or any rovers for that matter) A friend of mine was once on a training course for a barrier person, and he actually informed the course instructor about the various rovers(!)

I became very aware of this last July when using a 7 Day NW Rover beginning and ending each day at Blackpool North.
I knew that my Rover ticket wouldn't work in the automatic barriers but try telling that to the staff who insisted time after time that it might work and made me try it. Of course it never did! Most staff were quite polite but once or twice as I went straight to the manned entrance/exit to show my ticket I was rather rudely told to use the automatic barrier and only after they had seen that I couldn't get through did they rather reluctantly let me through.

On the last day of using the ticket, as I showed it at the barrier, the man on at the barrier rmarked 'thank goodness it's your last day with that ticket!' I still don't know whether he was joking or whether he was serious. Certainly I always approached them politely and tried to explain in a reasonable manner that the barrier would not accept my ticket. They just wouldn't listen and believe me.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
One extra incident that I forgot to mention.

I was once staying in London and used a Southern Daysaver Ticket, which is very good value at only £10 for a days travel on Southern trains. It can only be purchased in advance online or at certain Tourist Information Centres.
I found out during the day that automatic barriers would not accept this ticket. I arrived back late evening at West Brompton to find the barriers unmanned and I couldn't get out of what at that time of night was a deserted station. Fortunately I eventually found a London Transport member of staff from the adjoining tube station and he let me out of the station.

 

[yorkie]

They're not allowed, by law, to leave barriers unmanned like that.

 

[glynn80]

I became very aware of this last July when using a 7 Day NW Rover beginning and ending each day at Blackpool North.
I knew that my Rover ticket wouldn't work in the automatic barriers but try telling that to the staff who insisted time after time that it might work and made me try it. Of course it never did! Most staff were quite polite but once or twice as I went straight to the manned entrance/exit to show my ticket I was rather rudely told to use the automatic barrier and only after they had seen that I couldn't get through did they rather reluctantly let me through.

On the last day of using the ticket, as I showed it at the barrier, the man on at the barrier rmarked 'thank goodness it's your last day with that ticket!' I still don't know whether he was joking or whether he was serious. Certainly I always approached them politely and tried to explain in a reasonable manner that the barrier would not accept my ticket. They just wouldn't listen and believe me.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
One extra incident that I forgot to mention.

I was once staying in London and used a Southern Daysaver Ticket, which is very good value at only £10 for a days travel on Southern trains. It can only be purchased in advance online or at certain Tourist Information Centres.
I found out during the day that automatic barriers would not accept this ticket. I arrived back late evening at West Brompton to find the barriers unmanned and I couldn't get out of what at that time of night was a deserted station. Fortunately I eventually found a London Transport member of staff from the adjoining tube station and he let me out of the station.

Just for information, West Brompton is a station owned by London Underground and it would be them who program the barriers. Although I did have an instance where I put a regional rover ticket I had by accident into the barriers at Kings Cross St Pancras and it opened them so...

 

[ashworth]

They're not allowed, by law, to leave barriers unmanned like that.

I agree. The station wasn't completely unmanned but it did take me a few minutes to find someone as there was no-one near the barriers and I had to knock on a door of LT staff to find someone.

 

[martyn29]

I'm planning to but one of these at Priv rate for a week off soon, have to make some plans for the best way to utlise it!

 

[paul1609]

One extra incident that I forgot to mention.

I was once staying in London and used a Southern Daysaver Ticket, which is very good value at only £10 for a days travel on Southern trains. It can only be purchased in advance online or at certain Tourist Information Centres.
I found out during the day that automatic barriers would not accept this ticket. I arrived back late evening at West Brompton to find the barriers unmanned and I couldn't get out of what at that time of night was a deserted station. Fortunately I eventually found a London Transport member of staff from the adjoining tube station and he let me out of the station.

I dont really understand your comments West Brompton is a tube station!
The nationalrail platforms were originally closed during world war 2 but were re-opened in 1999. The nationalrail platforms are outside the LUL trainshed and the exit is clearly signposted via the booking office.
In common LUL small station practise the ticket barriers (from memory I think there are 3) are supervised by the ticket office. If your ticket doesnt work you go to the ticket office window and they let you through. If the ticket office is closed the barriers are open.
I've on occasion used the ticket office having arrived on oyster from Heathrow and found the staff very helpful in issuing tickets to Nationalrail stations. I wonder if its possible for them to issue an ALR on tube stock? that would confuse a few grippers!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/West_Brompton_station

As regards Daysave tickets Southern are pretty open in the fact they will not work the barriers at any station and the letter than you get with the tickets explained that. They must however rank as the best value tickets in London and the South East!

 

[xc170]

I'm planning to but one of these at Priv rate for a week off soon, have to make some plans for the best way to utlise it!

Why, Just fill in the square(s)

Adam

 

[dan_atki]

Why, Just fill in the square(s)

'TOC New Entrants' don't have boxes to fill in

 

[glynn80]

'TOC New Entrants' don't have boxes to fill in

Well that depends, there are certain companies that still issues boxes to their employees if they started after privatisation. One example is Rail Europe and they get 8 boxes per year if I recall.

However you are right that all entrants to current TOCs just get a Staff Travel Card with no boxes which is only valid for privilege discounted travel.

 

[Mojo]

The Railway Group Standards do say that the barriers don't have to be manned by a person physically present, but could be remotely manned by CCTV or someone elsewhere on the station (eg: ticket office) but certain safeguards and arrangements must be made.

http://www.rgsonline.co.uk/Railway_...re/Railway Group Standards/GIRT7015 Iss 1.pdf

I think for simplicity, customer service and better effectiveness many stations do have the barriers manned by someone who is physically there, but it's not always the case - especially on LU where I've heard stories of totally unstaffed stations with the barriers closed.

 

[glynn80]

The Railway Group Standards do say that the barriers don't have to be manned by a person physically present, but could be remotely manned by CCTV or someone elsewhere on the station (eg: ticket office) but certain safeguards and arrangements must be made.

http://www.rgsonline.co.uk/Railway_...re/Railway Group Standards/GIRT7015 Iss 1.pdf

I think for simplicity, customer service and better effectiveness many stations do have the barriers manned by someone who is physically there, but it's not always the case - especially on LU where I've heard stories of totally unstaffed stations with the barriers closed.

Yes, this is done often where stations have two sets of barriers and one is at an extremity of the station. There is usually a CCTV help point where you can show your ticket and they can then remotely open the barriers to let you through. This has been made possible with the introduction of the new style of barriers where one is much wider allowing for luggage to be taken through as opposed to a gate.

 

[metrocammel]

Yes, this is done often where stations have two sets of barriers and one is at an extremity of the station. There is usually a CCTV help point where you can show your ticket and they can then remotely open the barriers to let you through. This has been made possible with the introduction of the new style of barriers where one is much wider allowing for luggage to be taken through as opposed to a gate.

This is the case at Aberdeen.

I haven't read the RGS document, which may include it, but I know all barriers are desinged to open if exerted with enough pressure. So, if in an emergency, you can run into a barrier with your shoulders, and it should open - and sound an alarm.

(I nearly had to do this at Shrewsbury today, as the barrier attendant had vanished, and the gates didn't accept a West Mids Day Ranger- with 2 minutes to go before the WSMR!! - Thankfully the barrier woman returned before I had to resort to such barbarian methods.)

 

[glynn80]

This is the case at Aberdeen.

I haven't read the RGS document, which may include it, but I know all barriers are desinged to open if exerted with enough pressure. So, if in an emergency, you can run into a barrier with your shoulders, and it should open - and sound an alarm.

(I nearly had to do this at Shrewsbury today, as the barrier attendant had vanished, and the gates didn't accept a West Mids Day Ranger- with 2 minutes to go before the WSMR!! - Thankfully the barrier woman returned before I had to resort to such barbarian methods.)

Yes this is definitely the case and a friend of mine did this on the London Underground at Regents Park when his Travelcard was continually refused and no one inside the ticket office or manning the barrier,he remembered like you that with enough pressure they open so as if there was an large crush of people no one would be injured. He did exert large pressure and it duly opened (whilst at the same time waving his Travelcard to any CCTV or attendant that may have been watching on)!

 

[me123]

The Railway Group Standards do say that the barriers don't have to be manned by a person physically present, but could be remotely manned by CCTV or someone elsewhere on the station (eg: ticket office) but certain safeguards and arrangements must be made.

Glasgow Queen Street Low Level is barriered and has two exits; one to Dundas Street (and the travelator link to Buchanan Street Subway) and another exit to North Hanover Street (in Queen Street Car Park).

On the platforms, it's clearly signed that the North Hanover Street barriers are not always manned, and that passengers without a ticket or who need assistance at certain times should use the main Dundas Street exit. The Hanover Street exit is rather lightly used, anyway. Again, these barriers are monitored by CCTV to prevent people legging it over the barriers!

This is not a problem for disabled users; the lifts go to the High Level Platforms beside Platform 7 and, again, these barriers are always manned.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

This is the case at Aberdeen.

Whereabouts in Aberdeen? The only ones I can think of are on Platform 7 and these have always been manned in my experience.

 

[martyn29]

so its not a bad price an all line rover at priv rate! does any one have any ideas? I dont really want to use EMT as I get free travel on them anyway, but Obviously I can use them to get to certain points! I have a wek off in april!

 

[metrocammel]

Whereabouts in Aberdeen? The only ones I can think of are on Platform 7 and these have always been manned in my experience.

I assume those are the ones. They are remote from the rest of the station. I have been 'caught out' twice on these. The first time was in May, on an ALR, and I had to speak to guard of the train I had alighted from to get the attention of a member of staff on the other side.

The second time was in August, on a Scottish Rover. This time, again there was no one there. IIRC, I think someone used the disabled barrier and I just followed behind.

So, I'm not sure if it's a common thing, but two out of two times they haven't been manned in my experience. Also, while on the same ALR at Aberdeen, I was told 'If it doesn't activate the barriers, it's not valid' (after convincing them that it covered all-lines, they insisted I filled my date boxes in- despite it being a 7 in 7 day rover !!)