Buying house near tracks / Kent House station

[JMD24]

Hi - we are considering buying a house that backs onto the train tracks near Kent House station in Beckenham (London) and we really need your specialist advice!

1. How do we find out how many trains pass by per hour and at what times? (Aside from those that stop at the station, presumably there are others that pass through + freight trains)

2. How do we find out whether the trains are diesel or electric? And whether there is a maintenance access near our house?

3. Would you buy close to the tracks and station? What should we keep in mind other than noise, being overlooked, subsidence risk and pollution? The garden is 52m / 170ft deep so we are at least that distance away from the tracks. But there is also another line nearby (Clockhouse).

Your thoughts would be really appreciated!

 

[yorkie]

There is typically a 5 hour gap in passenger trains during the night but engineering and freight trains could pass through at any time.

Passenger trains are electric so pollution will be lower than from a road.

 

[Busaholic]

I used to stay at my sister's house near West Dulwich station, in a back room about thirty yards from the railway line, which is on a raised embankment and really only got disturbed when engineering works took place.

 

[800002]

1. How do we find out how many trains pass by per hour and at what times? (Aside from those that stop at the station, presumably there are others that pass through + freight trains)

Are you familiar with the website Real Time Trains? See here (Kent House Station) showing the all day train running plan for two months time (1st July) currently showing the weekday unamended timetable.
This should give you an idea of service frequency.
Not much just passes through the station, under normal circumstances.

2. How do we find out whether the trains are diesel or electric? And whether there is a maintenance access near our house?

All the passenger trains will be electric.
All the freight services will be diesel.
The indicator to look at in the freight service schedules is the weight... This could be an indication of any possible vibration /shaking within the house (depending on many factors which may or may not be present) at passing freight.
I wouldn't have thought there would be much intrusion from the passenger services, but it does depend on the individual location.

3. Would you buy close to the tracks and station? What should we keep in mind other than noise, being overlooked, subsidence risk and pollution? The garden is 52m / 170ft deep so we are at least that distance away from the tracks. But there is also another line nearby (Clockhouse).

I live much closer than 50 meters from the main line - you'll get used to it (have family under Heathrow flight paths, it's the same thing really almost).
You'll get more pollution from the roads.
Engineering noise is a different thing - I'd have to take a closer look at the individual circumstance to see about access points and any other engineering basics to put an opinion across on that one.
Is the line raised up slightly on an embankment or is it down slightly in a ditch? Are there any noise retaining walls?

I would say the best idea could be to get down to Beckenham Jn at the weekend (travel availability permitting, of course) and hop on a train towards Herne Hill via Penge East. Alternatively Google earth between the two stations to look for largish squares of land with black squares between the track (s) like a foot crossing (this would be an indication of a rail road vehicle access point). I'll see if I can find something to show you...

Hope that helps a little.

EDIT. Google earth images of the access point at the London End of Penge East station

 

[OxtedL]

Are you familiar with the website Real Time Trains? See here (Kent House Station) showing the all day train running plan for two months time (1st July) currently showing the weekday unamended timetable.
This should give you an idea of service frequency.
Not much just passes through the station, under normal circumstances.

Loads of trains pass Kent House without stopping, including the majority of trains running non-stop from Bromley South to Victoria.

Your RTT link is currently misleading, as Kent House is not a timing point so isn't on train schedules for non-stopping trains, and RTT doesn't add its own custom timing points until closer to the time.

It would be much better to look at the schedule for nearby Beckenham Junction to get a sense of a typical day.

 

[LeeLivery]

Hi - we are considering buying a house that backs onto the train tracks near Kent House station in Beckenham (London) and we really need your specialist advice!

1. How do we find out how many trains pass by per hour and at what times? (Aside from those that stop at the station, presumably there are others that pass through + freight trains)

2. How do we find out whether the trains are diesel or electric? And whether there is a maintenance access near our house?

3. Would you buy close to the tracks and station? What should we keep in mind other than noise, being overlooked, subsidence risk and pollution? The garden is 52m / 170ft deep so we are at least that distance away from the tracks. But there is also another line nearby (Clockhouse).

Your thoughts would be really appreciated!

Are you familiar with the website Real Time Trains? See here (Kent House Station) showing the all day train running plan for two months time (1st July) currently showing the weekday unamended timetable.
This should give you an idea of service frequency.
Not much just passes through the station, under normal circumstances.

I live in next to the main line through Sydenham but frequently use the line you're referring to from Penge East. The Kent House line (Chatham Main) is much quieter than what I'm used to behind mine, while the Clock House (Hayes line) which I frequently use from Lower Sydenham is almost rurally quiet in comparison. Fortunately, the Kent House line is quieter than it used to be. Back in the early 2000s with the old slam door trains and Eurostars passing was much louder.

As for the timetable, the realtime link is, unfortunately, missing half of the timetable if that's supposed to show normal service. In the Mon-Sat daytime, you'll get 8 passenger trains passing in each direction; 4 stopping trains and 4 Kent fasts. On Sunday's there's less. They're electric, and not particularly loud compared to some. The line is quite reliable, but if there's a delay towards London, it's normally because the slow train needs to be overtaken around Shortlands or occasionally, Kent House. If the fast train is delayed then the slow will normally wait for it to pass.

Freights are diesel but I couldn't say if there are actually any in normal times. As with a lot of lines in South London, the only non-passenger trains that are regular are Network Rail maintenance trains. In our region, normally they'll have a Class 73 pair of locomotives which are electro-diesel. Can be noisy but take a few seconds to pass really. Maintenance works can be noisy, that said, here I'd imagine the seriously noisy work is only for track/ballast (stones under track) replacements which aren't even once a decade.

Hope that helps, Beckenham is a great area to be.

 

[30907]

Loads of trains pass Kent House without stopping, including the majority of trains running non-stop from Bromley South to Victoria.

Your RTT link is currently misleading, as Kent House is not a timing point so isn't on train schedules for non-stopping trains, and RTT doesn't add its own custom timing points until closer to the time.

It would be much better to look at the schedule for nearby Beckenham Junction to get a sense of a typical day.

Good point. I assume from the description you are looking at Kings Hall Road (apologies if I'm misinterpreting)?
At Beckenham Junction you need to ignore trains operated by SC which go via Birkbeck. The overall level of train service is unlikely to change much as the line is fairly full. The Freight trains shown are the de-icing or railhead treatment trains which are seasonal and not very noisy - there is no real freight and hasn't been for years.
The gardens are long, but the line is on an embankment which will make it a bit noisier - but no subsidence!

PS the Mid Kent line is in a shallow cutting and further away, so won't make much impact.

 

[mat64nl]

Most freight trains are sent via the Catford loop; it's very rare that you'll have them pass via Kent House although there's possibility for late night engineers' trains from Tonbridge.
The standard timetable for Kent House as far as I'm aware (a CML local) is two trains per hour stopping between Victoria and Bromley South with an additional two extending to Orpington. Then two fast trains per hour that don't stop heading down to Medway and the Kent Coast, as well as an additional two to Maidstone, Ashford and Canterbury - so about 8 trains per hour. Line speed in the area is roughly 60 miles per hour but due to how close stations are it's only really the fast trains that would regularly achieve these.

 

[Fawkes Cat]

This won't directly answer your question, but have a look at the street at the front of the house that you're thinking about. Does it seem somehow rougher than neighbouring streets? Things like, are the cars older, the houses less well maintained and so on. And if so can you think of a rational explanation for this other than the railway? If not, then it may be that the railway causes enough of a disturbance to make people avoid living in that road - leading to the houses being somewhat cheaper, which in turn would mean that they are bought with people with fewer resources to hand for maintenance and new cars.

FWIW, I grew up with the Great Western mainline (GWML - then diesel operated) at the bottom of a sixty foot garden and under the Heathrow flightpath. My sister now lives somewhere backing on to the (now electrified) GWML with a much smaller back garden, and the electric trains are much less disturbing than the diesels ever were. On the other hand my wife tells me that as a family we just shout over trains and planes...

And be aware of the comments above about what happens when ballast is replaced. It doesn't happen more often than once every several years. And it's possible to sleep through the ballast packing machines. What will wake you up is the Klaxon to warn the trackworkers that the tamping machine is about to move. The tamping machine moves about every 15 minutes or so...

 

[DarloRich]

Hi - we are considering buying a house that backs onto the train tracks near Kent House station in Beckenham (London) and we really need your specialist advice!

1. How do we find out how many trains pass by per hour and at what times? (Aside from those that stop at the station, presumably there are others that pass through + freight trains)

2. How do we find out whether the trains are diesel or electric? And whether there is a maintenance access near our house?

3. Would you buy close to the tracks and station? What should we keep in mind other than noise, being overlooked, subsidence risk and pollution? The garden is 52m / 170ft deep so we are at least that distance away from the tracks. But there is also another line nearby (Clockhouse).

Your thoughts would be really appreciated!

You should visit the area day different times and gauge for yourself. You will know what you are prepared to accept in relation to noise and disruption. I absolutely also ask your solicitor to raise specific enquiries in relation to any railway related questions. I would be asking them to look into any future plans for enhancement, any issues noted by the householder in relation to their railway neighbours, any complaints raised regarding work or noise at unacceptable times etc etc.

The legal inspection of the deeds will highlight any potential conflict with the railway ( unlikely) but may allow access for maintenance or repair ( also unlikely but not unheard of).

Also take a trip past the house on the train and see ( try and see perhaps!) what it looks like from the other side of the fence. Could you notice anything of detail in the fleeting moment you pass?

You should be aware that maintenance work ( or at least large scale work) is going to generally happen at stupid o clock in the morning and involve light and noise. That wont be regular but should be considered and investigated with the seller.

PS - is the line below the level of the garden?


PPS - I cant stress this enough: Do not believe a word the estate agent tells you.

 

[plannerman]

We back on to the Merseyrail lines near Chester, with a much smaller garden and we got used to them very quickly. There was a great improvement when the track was changed from jointed to welded so maybe check what type of track is by your prospective house? The combination of welded track and good double glazing means trains are barely noticeable. Engineering trains going past are noisier but fine, and engineering work actually adjacent to our house is noisy but very rare.

 

[SECR263]

You need to keep in mind if you are to live near the station the sounds of the trains accelerating from a standing start. Electric motors can be noisy plus also the sounds of trains breaking which can be noisy as well.

Freights can be noisy when braking as the couplings close up or stretch when accelerating away. Try visiting the station to judge noise or ride on a train past the house.

 

[800002]

Loads of trains pass Kent House without stopping, including the majority of trains running non-stop from Bromley South to Victoria.

Your RTT link is currently misleading, as Kent House is not a timing point so isn't on train schedules for non-stopping trains, and RTT doesn't add its own custom timing points until closer to the time.

It would be much better to look at the schedule for nearby Beckenham Junction to get a sense of a typical day.

Of course it is - please excuse my late night oversight. I did know that, as when I first looked, the amended timetable shows nothing stopping or passing during the week and took a look at the timing points (and then promptly forgot about that)!

Thanks for adding the clarity I didn't.

 

[philthetube]

Ask the sellers if you can spend half an hour in the house and same in the garden this will give you an idea as to if you can live with the noise.

 

[ComUtoR]

There are also trains that come out the bay at Beckenham too.

 

[GRALISTAIR]

3. Would you buy close to the tracks and station? What should we keep in mind other than noise, being overlooked, subsidence risk and pollution? The garden is 52m / 170ft deep so we are at least that distance away from the tracks. But there is also another line nearby (Clockhouse).

Your thoughts would be really appreciated!

In the 1960s my parents deliberately bought a house next to the tracks- the WCML 4 miles north of Preston. I did likewise in 1990 and not just because I am a rail enthusiast. It is virtually impossible to be overlooked so privacy is extremely good. You do get used to the noise such that you really do not notice after a short while. When I moved back to the same location the line had long since ben electrified so pollution was much lower than in steam days. Each to their own but I would have no hesitation doing it. NR have now put a up a nice looking green fence which is very substantial so the security at the back of our house is pretty dammed good too.

No hesitation in doing it all again.

 

[steamybrian]

In my younger years I lived in a house which backed onto the London- Brighton main line and as stated before apart from occasional overnight engineering works the noise from the railway did not disturb me.
I have been asked the same question by friends considering buying property next to a railway and these are some of the answers I have given -
Does your front garden back on to a main road as you are likely to get as much if not more noise from road traffic than rail.
The axle weight loadings of trains is 25 tons whereby lorries it is 44 tons.
Railway buildings/ station houses, etc are next to railway lines and I am not aware of any such buildings suffering from subsidence due to rail traffic.
Much rather live next to a railway than a busy main road.

 

[norbitonflyer]

The standard timetable for Kent House as far as I'm aware (a CML local) is two trains per hour stopping between Victoria and Bromley South with an additional two extending to Orpington. Then two fast trains per hour that don't stop heading down to Medway and the Kent Coast, as well as an additional two to Maidstone, Ashford and Canterbury - so about 8 trains per hour.

They all come back again, so its actually sixteen.

I used to live overlooking the tracks just SW of Clapham Junction, with eight tracks outside my window. I got used to everything except the diesels (mainly 50s and 33s on the Salisbury and Exeters) of which the drivers, in the down direction, had a habit of opening the throttle after the speed restriction through the station just as they passed my house.

 

[philthetube]

In my younger years I lived in a house which backed onto the London- Brighton main line and as stated before apart from occasional overnight engineering works the noise from the railway did not disturb me.
I have been asked the same question by friends considering buying property next to a railway and these are some of the answers I have given -
Does your front garden back on to a main road as you are likely to get as much if not more noise from road traffic than rail.
The axle weight loadings of trains is 25 tons whereby lorries it is 44 tons.
Railway buildings/ station houses, etc are next to railway lines and I am not aware of any such buildings suffering from subsidence due to rail traffic.
Much rather live next to a railway than a busy main road.

I think you are wrong on that one, vehicle weight of lorries is 44 tons

 

[DVD]

My late uncle lived next to the Chingford to Liverpool Street line for around fifty years with a tiny back garden. It never seemed to worry him or his family although when I visited the house briefly shook for a few seconds when trains went past. Thousands live next to railways and the only complaints you tend to hear are about engineering works which can be noisy and at unsociable hours or weekends. I wouldn't let it deter you if the house is nice. Living on a main road is probably far worse

 

[trainmania100]

3. Would you buy close to the tracks and station? What should we keep in mind other than noise, being overlooked, subsidence risk and pollution? The garden is 52m / 170ft deep so we are at least that distance away from the tracks. But there is also another line nearby (Clockhouse).

Your thoughts would be really appreciated!

As long as the house is not far from a station I'm not bothered if it backs onto a railway line .
My personal biggest issue is getting out of the house at 3 in the morning without waking everyone up to see a 37 hauled UTU

You may not see very well during the dark when most of the good stuff happens but if you have a bungalow or stairs that don't creak it shouldn't be much of an issue

In terms of websites, any site would do, there's lots out there all unique and provide different levels of info

1. Real-time trains provides better timings for smaller stations that ARENT provided by network rail by estimating the times.
2. Charlwoodhouse liverail goes back a few years for historical data
3. Live.rail-record.co.uk has train email/SMS alerts and vstp alerts soon for locations
4. Railcam.uk shows freight operator and real headcodes.

Whatever train times website you use, your probably going to be using either Traksy or Opentraintimes or Railcam diagrams for a more intricate analysis of when a train will pass you. They give signalling diagrams that provide better positioning than live train times websites.

 

[steamybrian]

I think you are wrong on that one, vehicle weight of lorries is 44 tons

It is not the gross weight of the lorry it is the "axle" weight.
In the same way that a 2-6-0 steam locomotive weighing 100 tons gross equals 25 tons axle weight.
If the maximum vehicle weight of a lorry is 44 tons then it would not be able to transport a steam locomotive weighing 100 tons.

 

[221129]

It is not the gross weight of the lorry it is the "axle" weight.
In the same way that a 2-6-0 steam locomotive weighing 100 tons gross equals 25 tons axle weight.
If the maximum vehicle weight of a lorry is 44 tons then it would not be able to transport a steam locomotive weighing 100 tons.

The maximum legal weight of a normal lorry (not a specially adapted one like you refer) is 44T normally spread over 5 or 6 axles (so axle load of 6-9T) nothing like the 25T axle load of a train.

 

[4COR]

A long while ago, we lived within 300yds of the E Grinstead line (both pre/post 1987 when it was electrified - though we still had Thumpers to Uckfield for a long while). Over time with the diesels the pictures on the wall used to slowly move out of straight with vibrations, but we were used to it so never really noticed it. When the slam door stock was removed, we could barely notice the trains at all.

I do remember a full ballast renewal sometime in the early 90s - that was noisy, but for only a couple of weekends - was mostly the shouting from the workmen and the tampers that stood out!

 

[JMD24]

Thank you all so much for your responses, you have really gone above and beyond - very helpful!

 

[Islineclear3_1]

Kent House station is on an embankment meaning it is higher than the adjoining gardens. It is in an affluent area and some of the adjoing roads are private - so not maintained by the council. I know the area very well so if you want some more advice, feel free to PM me

 

[Bedpan]

We used to live near Hampton Court Junction, just after where the Up Guildford New line dives under the main line. The nearest track on the min line (Up Slow) was about 100 ft away and probably about 16 or 17 ft above ground floor level. The back yard was literally about 6ft from front to back so the nearest rail of the nearest track (on the Guildford via Cobham Up line was maybe 10 feet away from the back windows, and 3 or 4 feet above ground floor level, behind a retaining wall that was about the same height as the upstairs floor of the house. That said, there was a 30 mph limit round the curves from Hinchley Wood so the trains on that line just rumbled past fairly slowly. Then we had the A307 Portsmouth Road at the front, and aircraft, including Concordes, passing overhead. For all that it was a lovely position, with a bridge over a stream to get onto the road, wooded common land on the far side of the road, and of course nothing at the back except for the railway.

In terms of noise nuisance I would put the planes at the top and the railway at the bottom. The trains came and went and usually it was only about 30 seconds until the train had passed by and the noise disappeared. Far better than the constant hum of the road. The only time trains disturbed my sleep, despite open windows in the summer, was when a tamping machine woke me up and I used to lie there waiting what seemed like hours for it ti come closer and closer before passing by and receding into the night.

Having the Cobham line so close was fun when people who had no idea about the railway came to visit. Several times people jumped out of their seat when the train came past, and the glassware on the dresser made a chinking sound as it vibrated. It was even better at night if we left the curtains open and the visitor was confronted with the sight of the lights from the carriage windows, which could just be seen over the top of the retaining wall, flashing away as the train went by.

We got the house at a good price and it was a railway enthusiast's paradise. I can't say that it was easy to sell though, a lot of people were, unjustifiably, put off buy the railway.

 

[AlbertBeale]

You need to keep in mind if you are to live near the station the sounds of the trains accelerating from a standing start. Electric motors can be noisy plus also the sounds of trains breaking which can be noisy as well.

Actually, trains breaking can be seriously noisy; but trains braking aren't quite so bad.

 

[Islineclear3_1]

Usually after living in a new area for a time, your brain habituates so that the noise of traffic/trains gets tuned out. This is how people can generally live near industrial estates or airports

 

[thecraftybee]

I grew up in a house that backed on to the railway, or “ralla” on the Northern line of Merseyrail. I just checked Google Earth and my bedroom is less than 20 metres away from the lines. I rarely noticed any noise as a kid back when it had single glazed windows and when I go back and stay in my old bedroom 20 years later I still don’t notice it with open windows, despite there being 8 trains per hour passing by.