Buying/Selling rolling stock internationally

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aformeruser

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In the past there have seen British units exported.

Is there any stock we have now that other countries would want to buy and be able to use?

Is there any stock other countries have now that would be a good usable acquisition for us?

In another thread someone suggested micro-fleets are costly and should be got rid of. With other countries having Coradia family trains could a class 180 fit in alongside these?

Could even David Cameron be clever with Euro bailouts and say we'll help you on condition that we get your nice trains in exchange for our not-so-nice trains. :D
 
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GNERman

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It was BR's initial plan that the 58's could easily be bought by other countries, and indeed EWS did export many abroad, with some still over there (number anyone???). Indeed BR referred to them as "Standard Export Locos"...
 

Schnellzug

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Is there any stock we have now that other countries would want to buy and be able to use?

Well, the 66s could pretty much fit that criteria, couldn't they.
.. or 56s.
or 86s.
or even (I don't know whether they are being or not, but there's certainly bee talk about it) 92s.
 

Schnellzug

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Of course, regarding multiple Units, the problem is that the loading guage means that stock designed for continental Europe would need redesigning before it could run here. Hence why the kinds we have are quite different from what go under the same name in other lands. The Desiro in the Eurozone is a lightweight articulated unit; ours are neither of those things. Ours are rather more similar to what Diemens calls 'Desiro ML', but they look quite different (illustrated below is a Belgian Desiro ML).
 

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87015

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or even (I don't know whether they are being or not, but there's certainly bee talk about it) 92s.
92034 is in Bulgaria - last photo I saw was of it sitting on Poduyane Works in downtown Sofia...

Probably worth mentioning that in addition to all sorts of International working, export of locos between European countries is incredibly common, particuarly with new private freight operators appearing left, right and centre whilst loads of passenger stock in Eastern and Central Europe is second hand from Western Europe (usually Germany).
 
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WatcherZero

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Its always been said when the Pacers were done with they take the bogies and use them as a cheap conversion to freight wagons and hoppers.
 

cj_1985

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are we all forgetting about one of the major issues of difference between continental stock, and UK stock...

Height... not height exactly.. but the height of where the doors are in relation to platforms...

Most (if not all) european countries have low level platforms... where as we here have platforms that are that bit higher.

now its maybe not such an issue for the likes of the class 373s that have slide out/pop out steps to allow them to be used with relatively little fuss both here and in france etc.

while im sure in theory some solution could be developed to allow our stock to be used... in practice would it be more sensible to modify a class 175 (for example) to allow access from low platformns without a step ladder or just to order new stock or lease displaced stock... i think we all know the answer to that. (This being one of the reasons i don't think that tram-Trains will work here in the UK unless the tram system they are being used on has the same or similar height platforms to mainline stations.)

Plus you have to taken into account that any UK stock or units would probably have issues in europe meeting any disability access requirements


Locos are a different kettle of fish...
take the class 66... in theory you can take a UK spec 66 (ie no air con module) and run it almost anywhere in europe subject to certification, and im sure removing the air con module to allow an EU spec 66 to be used in the UK isn't beyond being possible after some mods...

Otherwise any UK loco could be used in europe or anywhere that has track gauge of 4 ft 8 and a half as we know since we now have class 56, 58, 86, 87 and a solitary 92 having previously been used, being used or being assessed for use elsewhere in europe... as well as the examples of class 03 and 08 locos (or derived locos) being or having been used in the likes of italy, belgium and even that modified pair of EWS/DBS 08s with multi having previously been used in france

even looking at EU locos being used here.. just look at the Di8 locos that GBRf are using at lackenby.. obviously there is more space to allow the larger locos to be used without coming into contact with anything above or either side of the loco
 

aformeruser

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are we all forgetting about one of the major issues of difference between continental stock, and UK stock...

Height... not height exactly.. but the height of where the doors are in relation to platforms...

Most (if not all) european countries have low level platforms... where as we here have platforms that are that bit higher.

while im sure in theory some solution could be developed to allow our stock to be used... in practice would it be more sensible to modify a class 175 (for example) to allow access from low platformns without a step ladder or just to order new stock or lease displaced stock... i think we all know the answer to that. (This being one of the reasons i don't think that tram-Trains will work here in the UK unless the tram system they are being used on has the same or similar height platforms to mainline stations.)

Plus you have to taken into account that any UK stock or units would probably have issues in europe meeting any disability access requirements
Don't forget that in Europe the double decker trains can be lower than single decker trains using the same platforms. You quite often have to step down from the platform to the train for a double decker train.

The reason for the tram-train trial taking place in Sheffield is because it is accepted that low floor tram-trains on Supertram and National Rail are more challenging than high floor tram-trains on Metrolink and National Rail. Manchester isn't the only European city to use high floor trams even though low floor are more common in Europe.

Selling further afield from Europe where accessibility laws aren't as advanced could be a better option. If the 141s can work in Iran, then why wouldn't the 142s or 150s be able to work in another Asian country?

Also remember our Sprinters will need a lot of work doing over the next few years if they are to remain in service long-term. The grandfather rights they have with relation to accessibility expire in 2019.
 

DownSouth

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Selling further afield from Europe where accessibility laws aren't as advanced could be a better option. If the 141s can work in Iran, then why wouldn't the 142s or 150s be able to work in another Asian country?

While not in Asia except for international soccer purposes, a case in point is the XPT used in New South Wales (Australia) which is roughly based on the HST. The basic traction package components ended up being the components imported from Britain, with completely different Budd-designed coaches used because the BR Mark 3 did not meet the standards required for long-distance services here.

To adapt second-hand British vehicles to become viable replacements for the already appropriate stock would be an expensive process, and impossible in cases where different platform heights and less restrictive loading gauges make British trains inappropriate. At the end of that process, you've thrown a whole lot of money at these trains and you're still left with clapped-out junk from the awkward era when Britain was denying it had already declined into the post-industrial era. That would be money best spent on a smaller number of appropriate new units and life extensions for the old ones which are already appropriate if just a little long in the tooth.
 
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Schnellzug

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To adapt second-hand British vehicles to become viable replacements for the already appropriate stock would be an expensive process, and impossible in cases where different platform heights and less restrictive loading gauges make British trains inappropriate. At the end of that process, you've thrown a whole lot of money at these trains and you're still left with clapped-out junk from the awkward era when Britain was denying it had already declined into the post-industrial era. .
What does that mean? Actually their longevity might suggest that they were actually remarkably well built.
 

D365

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It has to be easier to sort the Sprinters out than Pacers, but is it worth it with the 150s?
 

aformeruser

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It has to be easier to sort the Sprinters out than Pacers, but is it worth it with the 150s?
Good question.

Porterbrook have effectively ruled out making the 153s fully compliant in single carriage formation, so I imagine the 150s in 2 car formation could be a similar scenario unless they can guarantee at least 10 more years from them after refurbishment.

I believe we have 27 2 car 150s which had an accessible toilet fitted under North Western Trains. Now it may be cost effective to take 27 x 2 car 150s without accessible toilets and make 54 x 4 car 150s. Those 4 car 150s won't be fully complaint without further changes but having them in 4 car formation with an accessible toilet would bring down the costs significantly.
 
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