C in train reporting numbers

Discussion in 'Allocations, Diagrams & Timetables' started by LWB, 5 Feb 2015.

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  1. LWB

    LWB Member

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    I have been looking through RTT for my area (S.Cumbria) and find that most movements are xCxx type. I have searched for the meaning of C but it doesn't appear on any sources such as here or Winkipeed. Is it new, (Cumbria perhaps)?

    Many thanks
     
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  3. John Webb

    John Webb Established Member

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    'C' usually indicates a train running within a area for a particular destination.(In BR days different letters were associated with different divisions of a particular region and with a particular terminus. I'm not quite certain how this has been translated onto the 'privatised' railways.)

    Is it possible that 'C' in this case may indicate 'Carlisle'?
     
    Last edited: 5 Feb 2015
  4. A-driver

    A-driver Established Member

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    Quite simply the letter relates to the trains route/destination.

    In a head code like '1C23' the 1 at the start indicates an express passenger train (2 for normal passenger train, 3 for high speed empty stock or freight, 5 for normal empty passenger stock etc etc...).

    The letter indicates the trains route and destination and the last 2 numbers are just a unique code to avoid confusion. So you may have a 1C23, 1C24 and 2C23 all running in the same area at once but never the same exact code at the exact same time.

    The letter won't always make any sense. Some do, however others don't. For example on the GN routes from kings Cross xPxx will indicate a train for peterbourgh, xCxx indicates Cambridge which both seem fairly obvious but xTxx indicates kings Lynn or Ely, 2Vxx is a welwyn train, 2Bxx is Hertford etc.
     
  5. LWB

    LWB Member

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    John and A-driver..... thanks for the replies. That all makes sense, of course not all are running as xCxx, only 'local' trains eg Barrow-Carlisle. Just couldn't find it referenced anywhere.:)
     
  6. TheEdge

    TheEdge Established Member

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    I often wonder the logic in headcodes.

    London to Norwich are 1Pxx, Norwich to Yarmouth is 2Pxx unless via Reedham when its 2Cxx and Lowestofts are 2Jxx. East Suffolk trains are 2Dxx and Felixstowe is 2Rxx. None make any sense.

    At least Sheringhams are 2Sxx.
     
  7. LWB

    LWB Member

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    Well there you are! Today's trains up and down the Cumbrian coast line are 2C33 through 2C45. I suppose there's no confusion with a train down there!
     
  8. W230

    W230 Established Member

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    Likewise. I assumed there would be some, but there isn't it seems (not on TL anyway)!

    xExx - Sevenoaks services.
    xTxx /xWxx Bedford - Brighton
    xOxx / xVxx Sutton loop via Mitcham/Wimbledon.
     
  9. Yabbadabba

    Yabbadabba Member

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    That is because the Thameslink route has to fit in with all the other codes on Kent & Sussex. This is the reason why London Overground's ELL trains run as class 9s as we have simply run out of alphabet for class 1s & class 2s on the former Southern Region.
     
  10. 306024

    306024 Established Member

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    There doesn't have to be much logic so long as the head codes are unique within a signalling area at least 6 hours, and preferably 12 hours apart.

    Shenfield, Southminster and Southend all begin with S, so no chance of using initial letters.
     
  11. LBSCR Times

    LBSCR Times Member

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    There isn't any....

    London Bridge - Brighton 1B
    Victoria - Brighton 1A
    Victoria / London Bridge - Ore 1F
    Victoria / London Bridge - Littlehampton 1H
    Victoria / London Bridge - Portsmouth / Bognor 1C

    But then the Gatwick Express are 1D on the Down and 1U on the Up!

    The 4 digit headcode has to be unique, as there are 2O in the Victoria ASC for both Milton Keynes and Thameslink services!
     
    Last edited: 5 Feb 2015
  12. EM2

    EM2 Established Member

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    T denotes via London Bridge. W denotes via Elephant & Castle.
     
  13. edwin_m

    edwin_m Veteran Member

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    You'll find a list of area codes in the Working Timetable index for each area, which are on the Network Rail website.

    http://www.networkrail.co.uk/browse... timetable (WTT)\1 - December 2014 - May 2015

    Unfortunately there isn't an index to the areas, each of which is denoted by a two-letter code where the first letter is that of the former Regional planning office responsible. We eventually find that CF is the correct area and the CF index file gives C as Cumbria.







    Which we could probably have guessed anyway.
     
  14. causton

    causton Established Member

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    We do on the Great Northern...

    2Pxx for Peterborough calling semi-fast
    1Pxx for Peterborough fast to Stevenage
    2Cxx for Cambridge semi-fast
    1Cxx for Cambrige fast to Stevenage
    2Rxx for Royston semi-fast
    1Rxx for Royston fast... you get the idea now?
    We then have some that are not quite obvious, such as
    1Txx for Kings Lynn/Ely/non-stop to Cambridge
    2Jxx for all stations from Hertford North
    2Kxx for all stations from Welwyn Garden City
    2Uxx for all stations from Letchworth via Hertford
    2Bxx for all stations to Hertford North
    2Vxx for all stations to Welwyn Garden City
    2Fxx for all stations to Letchworth via Hertford

    Obviously these may change during the peaks (i.e. 1Pxx can terminate at Huntingdon, 2Uxx can start at Stevenage) but it gives a rough guide of where they're going at each junction and crossover to the signaller hopefully!
     
  15. A-driver

    A-driver Established Member

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    Non stop to Cambridge only is 1C. 1T is only for trains heading to Ely or beyond.
     
  16. Flamingo

    Flamingo Established Member

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    Paddington to Bristol and West Country HST's are 1CXX (with the exception of 1C01 which passes through Bristol Temple of Doom but ends up in Swansea).
     
  17. Class377/5

    Class377/5 Established Member

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    xExx is via Catford (Blackfrairs services)
    xGxx Beckenham Junction (Thameslink)

    Sometimes the number that starts is meaningless. For example at East Croydon a 1Bxx is a London Bridge to Brighton stopper and a 2Bxx a Tonbridge.

    Its all a general sty of rules but it isn't set in stone.
     
  18. jopsuk

    jopsuk Veteran Member

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    From St Pancras, a 1F could be either a SouthEastern High Speed via Faversham or an EMT to Sheffield. But they are on effectively entirely separate systems.
     
  19. Taunton

    Taunton Established Member

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    I believe when the 4-character system was devised (around 1960) the letter was taken from the appropriate destination area, within the region, letter of the working timetables, which were already coded A, B, C, etc. Over this, inter-regional trains were given an letter for the destination region as a whole, and these were meaningful, apart from the Western Region (used V) and Southern (used O), as W and S were already taken.

    It was desired to have 4 characters because the Western Region had the old GWR system of large 3-character train numbers displayed on the front of the locomotive, including the first diesels, and this was extended to include the train class, previously shown by lamps, as the first character.

    Regarding duplicates, the Southern had their own two-digit electric train headcodes, and someone once pointed out that four separate trains could be leaving London Bridge side-by-side on different services, all with the same code.
     
    Last edited: 6 Feb 2015
  20. hairyhandedfool

    hairyhandedfool Established Member

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    And for completeness, O is Streatham-Sutton-Wimbledon-Streatham and V is Streatham-Wimbledon-Sutton-Streatham. On the Brighton and Sutton Loop trains, odd numbers are southbound, even numbers are northbound.
     
  21. Class377/5

    Class377/5 Established Member

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    Unless it's changed in the December timetable (haven't checked every headcode in the new one), that's not actually true. Mostly it is but some trains don't follow this pattern. For example the the 12 car trains off Brighton in the evening peak used to be (prior to Dec) 1W94, 1W95, 1W90.
     
  22. TheJRB

    TheJRB Established Member

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    On Southeastern:

    xAxx - Up Maidstone East via Beckenham Jn, up Charlton and Blackheath
    xBxx - Up Greenwich, Catford Loop
    xCxx - St Pancras loop out via Gravesend return via Ashford (1Cxx), up Bexleyheath
    xDxx - Up Sidcup, Sheerness to Sittingbourne, up Beckenham Jn and Herne Hill
    xExx - Down Greenwich, Tonbridge to Tunbridge Wells
    xFxx - High Speed via Faversham (1Fxx), up Petts Wood and Chislehurst (2Fxx), Maidstone East via Catford
    xGxx - Sole Street and Grove Park
    xHxx - Hastings (1Hxx), Tunbridge Wells (2Hxx)
    xIxx - Cannon Street loop out Sidcup return Greenwich
    xJxx - High Speed via Ashford (1Jxx), up Bromley North, down Cannon Street to London Bridge short workings (none in current timetable)
    xKxx - Sole Street and Catford, up Hayes
    xLxx - St Pancras loop out Ashford return Gravesend, down Blackheath and Charlton
    xMxx - Down Bexleyheath, down Herne Hill and Beckenham Jn
    xNxx - Down Sidcup, down Maidstone East via Beckenham Jn
    xOxx - Cannon Street loop out Greenwich return Sidcup
    xPxx - Up Sole Street and Beckenham Jn, down Bromley North, up London Bridge to Cannon Street short workings
    xRxx - Down Headcorn
    xSxx - Down Beckenham Jn and Sole Street, down Chislehurst and Petts Wood (2Sxx)
    xTxx - Medway Valley
    xUxx - Victoria to Dartford
    xVxx - Down Hayes
    xWxx - Up Headcorn
    xYxx - via Catford Bridge and Beckenham Jn
     
  23. bb21

    bb21 Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    So you are confirming what he said, the way I read it.
     
  24. Class377/5

    Class377/5 Established Member

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    Not sure how you can come to that conclusion. He stated. ...

    I've already given examples where both odds and even are used in the same direction, hence the above post isn't true. Is a general rule yes, but don't assume that is always this way.
     
  25. bb21

    bb21 Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    Ah, I see your 1W95.

    It's the even numbers you gave either side of it that confused me.
     
  26. whoosh

    whoosh Member

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    Odds and evens.

    I think it's odd numbers to Cannon Street and even numbers to Charing Cross for South Eastern.
     
  27. badassunicorn

    badassunicorn Member

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    C on the great eastern indicates a move to Gidea Park Station or yard. Normal Shenfield metros are W, and ICS is V.
     
  28. LWB

    LWB Member

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    Thank you Edwin! I searched around there but missed the last bit!
     
  29. Class377/5

    Class377/5 Established Member

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    Its worse when you watching a signaling panel and think shouldn't that be going the other way?
     
  30. Flange Squeal

    Flange Squeal Member

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    SWT - General off-peak format

    xAxx - Waterloo to Alton

    xBxx - Waterloo to Poole

    xCxx - Waterloo to Reading

    1Dxx - Waterloo to Dorking
    2Dxx - Waterloo to Guildford (via Epsom)

    xExx - Portsmouth to Southampton

    xFxx - Waterloo to Woking/Guildford

    1Gxx - Waterloo to Portsmouth (via Cobham)
    2Gxx - Waterloo to Guildford (via Cobham)

    xHxx - Waterloo to Shepperton

    1Jxx - Brockenhurst to Lymington Pier
    2Jxx - Waterloo to Hampton Court

    xKxx - Waterloo to Waterloo (via Kingston & Richmond)

    1Lxx - Waterloo to Salisbury/Exeter St Davids
    2Lxx - Waterloo to Basingstoke

    xMxx - Waterloo to Chessington South

    1Nxx - Waterloo to Aldershot/Guildford (via Ascot)
    2Nxx - Ascot to Guildford

    xOxx - Waterloo to Waterloo (via Richmond & Kingston)

    1Pxx - Waterloo to Portsmouth Harbour (via Guildford)
    2Pxx - Waterloo to Haslemere/Portsmouth & Southsea

    xRxx - Waterloo to Waterloo (via Richmond & Hounslow)
    xRxx - Salisbury to Romsey

    xSxx - Romsey to Salisbury
    xSxx - Waterloo to Weybridge (via Hounslow)
    3Sxx - MPV circuits

    xTxx - Waterloo to Portsmouth Harbour (via Eastleigh)

    xUxx - Waterloo to Windsor & Eton Riverside

    1Vxx - Salisbury to Bristol Temple Meads
    2Vxx - Waterloo to Waterloo (via Hounslow & Richmond)

    xWxx - Waterloo to Weymouth

    5Yxx - Waterloo to Clapham Yard (empty coaching stock)
     
    Last edited: 7 Feb 2015
  31. DaveNewcastle

    DaveNewcastle Established Member Fares Advisor

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    On the east coast main line, the codes for long-distance passenger services changed in 2011. I think they now are :

    1Ann Southbound to London from Leeds Hull Harrogate Sunderland Bradford and Skipton
    1Ynn Southbound to London from Newcastle (or Berwick) and York
    1Enn Southbound to London from Edinburgh, Glasgow, Inverness and Aberdeen (and some from Newcastle)
    1Dnn Northbound to Leeds Harrogate Bradford and Skipton
    1Hnn Northbound to Hull (or Beverley)
    1Nnn Northbound to Newcastle Sunderland and York
    1Snn Northbound to Edinburgh, Glasgow, Inverness and Aberdeen
    1Bnn both Southbound and Northbound between London & Lincoln
     
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