C Stock

Discussion in 'London Underground' started by Peter Mugridge, 8 Jun 2012.

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  1. Peter Mugridge

    Peter Mugridge Established Member

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    The C Stock is next on the TfL hit list as the final days of the A Stock draw to a close... From what I can gather, one unit - 5595 - has already been withdrawn and stripped, although it had been out of traffic for some considerable time anyway.

    Although no S7 stock is expected to enter passenger service until after the Olympics, the first unit 21301/2 has either already been delivered or is on the point of being delivered - it was seen at Leicester being moved from Derby to the test track the long way round three weeks ago.

    There is one oddity amongst the C Stock fleet - unit 5555 apparantly can only be formed in the middle of a rake as it has some long term problem that causes it to fail if it is being directly driven and they have never managed to pin down why; little point spending the money now to sort it out anyway.

    One question: Does anyone know how often the C Stock rakes are split and reformed? They do seem to stay together for a considerable time, but equally they do seem to have a constant low level of reforming going on.
     
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  3. Dstock7080

    Dstock7080 Established Member

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    C Stock are constantly being reformed by Hammersmith depot.

    The first S7 21301/21302 is already at Neasden with another to follow very soon. It is hoped one will be in trial service from Hammersmith-Moorgate before the Olympics.
     
  4. Mutant Lemming

    Mutant Lemming Established Member

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    I don't think too many drivers will lament the passing of the C69's. They are a pain akin to the 72's (which were their 'tube' version) but they were even worse to split. I recall on stock training at Hammersmith when the trainman's inspector couldn't get a set to uncouple. He gave up and we tried with another unit - which we also couldn't split. We managed with a third set but then couldn't get that to recouple , which we ended up leaving for the depot staff to try and sort out.
    I'm not sure about recent times but but we were advised not to split them if at all possible.
    I think there was also something about not wanting to 'mix & match' sets because of the 'uneven wear' thing about working the Circle but that may have been one of those 'depot myths'.
     
  5. causton

    causton Established Member

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    Probably, especially as:

    a) They used to run to Aldgate East to reverse from one direction of the circle to the other so units didn't become too unevenly worn
    b) The new layout of the Circle means that this is not an issue :)
     
  6. 12CSVT

    12CSVT Established Member

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    Another oddity as far as I'm aware is 5585 which is a C77, rather than a C69 (Despite the C69s being numbered 55xx and 56xx, and the C77s being numbered 57xx).
     
  7. Dstock7080

    Dstock7080 Established Member

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    Then there are the 'new' 5606 (the previous unit being scrapped) and 5734 formed with '08 replacement cars.
     
  8. Mutant Lemming

    Mutant Lemming Established Member

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    There were also a couple of incidents after a 'push out' where they couldn't split the ensuing 12 cars and in one famed incident they had 18 cars to try and find somewhere to shunt out of the way while they worked out how to split it. (I think they had to they had to take it up to Klondyke in the end with an army of duty managers securing points etc)

    The only good thing about working any 'bandit' stock was the Westinghouse was good enough to use all the time.
    --- old post above --- --- new post below ---
    It would have been a bit more difficult keeping track on which units had done what though had they been forever splitting and reforming sets. Not splitting them would have made life easier but probably led to the problems on trying to split them when you did need to.
     
    Last edited: 9 Jun 2012
  9. astock5000

    astock5000 Member

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    This seems to have been a problem for years, it was used in the middle of both the Yellow Pages and Back the Bid trains, probably to make it easier to keep it in the middle of a train.
    With 5595 withdrawn there are 45 trains and two spare units, so there's always some reforming going on, however some units seem to stay coupled for months.
    Some recent formations I've seen:

    11/05/2012:
    5501-6501 + 6513-5513 + 6578-5578 234
    5521-6521 + 5582-6582 + 6569-5569 217
    5568-6568 + 6559-5559 + 6728-5728 200
    5579-6579 + 6560-5560 + 6725-5725 207
    5597-6597 + 6722-5722 + 6707-5707 243
    5703-6703 + 5512-6512 + 6711-5711 2xx (H&C) (I'm not completely sure which way round unit 5512 was)

    28/05/2012:
    5506-6506 + 5600-6600 + 6541-5541 243
    5523-6523 + 5516-6516 + 6589-5589 200
    5531-6531 + 5586-6586 + 6709-5709 xxx
    5532-6532 + 6514-5514 + 6732-5732 242
    5533-6533 + 5501-6501 + 6557-5557 205 - Formation change
    5536-6536 + 5719-6719 + 6723-5723 2xx (Circle)
    5545-6545 + 5552-6552 + 6550-5550 071
    5556-6556 + 5511-6511 + 6590-5590 217
    5568-6568 + 6559-5559 + 6728-5728 070
    5591-6591 + 5535-6535 + 6718-5718 212

    If anyone is interested in C stock formations, can they post them here so I can keep my spreadsheet up to date? It will be very useful to know which units are currently on the ends of trains.

    C stock fleet spreadsheet:
    https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AsHaeoH5qU2WdE8yZ1BidTdPNFVSNTBnTUNSc2N4MXc#gid=0
     
  10. GNERman

    GNERman Established Member

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    They were looking quite tired inside when I recently travelled on one, so its probably about time...
     
  11. Peter Mugridge

    Peter Mugridge Established Member

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    Yes please - I'm just at the start ( last week ) of a 30 day photo permit for the Underground and obviously the C and D are my priorities; the D isn't a problem as it's just two units stuck together but because with the C there is always a third unit in the middle there is more of a challenge there!

    I currently need 20 C Stock for a photo, of which I know about ½ are at present middle units ( including 5555 of course! ).
     
  12. bb21

    bb21 Forum Staff Staff Member Global Moderator

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    Not sure what your focus is but these are the few observations I made in passing this year.

    06/01/2012 CCL 203 5588 6588 5546 6546 6522 5522
    14/01/2012 HMC 230 5540 6540 5526 6526 6524 5524
    04/02/2012 CCL 215 5729 6729 6705 5705 6724 5724
    19/02/2012 HMC 232 5536 6536 5719 6719 6723 5723
    20/04/2012 HMC 240 5716 6716 5555 6555 6509 5509
    29/04/2012 CCL 215 5533 6533 5586 6586 6709 5709
     
  13. Peter Mugridge

    Peter Mugridge Established Member

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    Just a thought: Do we actually need to know which way round the middle units are? It should be enough to just say, for example, 5588 + 5546 + 5522 shouldn't it?

    PS Down to needing only 18 of them for a photo now... :)
     
  14. astock5000

    astock5000 Member

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    YouTube user 'X2K9' uploaded a video of 5503-6503 + 5717-6717 + 6525-5525 running on 1st June.

    Thanks, I've added 5716 + 5555 + 5509. I haven't put the Jan and Feb ones on there as it's likely that they've been reformed, although 5536+5719+5723 was still coupled at the end of last month.

    It's not really necessary, and neither is posting the services they were operating, but I like to have as much information as possible just in case it's useful, for example if a photo was uploaded of 5522 with the DM of the middle unit coupled to it, you would know that there had been a formation change.
     
  15. Peter Mugridge

    Peter Mugridge Established Member

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    Yes, but in that instance wouldn't just having 5522 between the two other units indicate the change, for example if it was 5588 + 5522 + 5546? ( Note for clarification - this is an example only merely to illustrate the point and not an actual formation change! ); my point being that there is no need for the trailer car numbers as long as the DM numbers are listed in the order of the rake?
     
  16. astock5000

    astock5000 Member

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    That wasn't exactly what I was saying. My point was that if for example, (and any formations in this post are also just examples), 5522 was still known to be formed:

    5588-6588 + 5546-6546 + 6522-5522

    But a photo or video was uploaded of it formed:

    5???-6??? + 6???-5??? + 6522-5522

    You would only know there had been a change if you knew what way round 5546 was. Of course, it doesn't work if it was reformed with a middle unit facing the same way as before but that would always be a problem, although it shouldn't matter if the formation info is updated regularly. That should be possible once the last A stock is withdrawn and C stock units start to be replaced (when the last 1967 stock were still running there wasn't much interest in A stock formations, but for a while now there's usually been at least a post a day on another forum).
    If other people don't want to bother with which way the middle unit is facing it doesn't really matter, but I'll still post the full formations as it isn't that much extra effort (when I see a C stock train I only write down the 1st, 3rd and 5th cars, such as 5589 + 6516 + 6523).
     
  17. bb21

    bb21 Forum Staff Staff Member Global Moderator

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    I do the same, purely for completeness and it was not much extra effort if you have good short-term memory. ;)

    This was borne out of some non-standard numbers on the Piccadilly and Jubilee messing up my records.
     
  18. Peter Mugridge

    Peter Mugridge Established Member

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    I get round the non standard Piccadilly / District formations problem by using the middle car of each unit as the identifier on the entire 1973 and D fleets as that gives a consistent method across both the single and double cab units.

    For the C Stock I just write down the 5xxx for each unit - but I do write them in the order of the triplet. Just don't bother to write down the trailer number.

    So ( and again this is a hypothetical example ) if I see 5501 + 5502 + 5503 formed in that order, I'll write it down like that. If they're formed 5502 + 5501 + 5503 then that's what I'll write down. I don't see it helps identify a reformation if the middle unit is either way round as long as the three units are noted in the order they are coupled?
     
  19. 317666

    317666 Established Member

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    5707 is now on one end of a formation and 5598 is on the other, not sure of the middle unit though. 5501 is also now an end unit, joined to 5557 in the middle and 5533 on the other end. 5707's traction motors sound very unhealthy, particularly at the cab end.
     
  20. astock5000

    astock5000 Member

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    25/06/2012:
    551?-651? + 6510-5510 + 6518-5518 2xx (Circle, part of number missing on front of unit - either 5512 or 5513).
    5530-6530 + 5549-6549 + 6574-5574 212
    5531-6531 + 5586-6586 + 6709-5709 xxx
    5534-6534 + 5716-6716 + 6576-5576 201 - Formation change
    5551-6551 + 6573-5573 + 6715-5715 213
    5570-6570 + 5539-6539 + 6594-5594 071
    5581-6581 + 5578-6578 + 6723-5723 075 - Formation change
    5593-6593 + 5571-6571 + 6712-5712 074
    5598-6598 + 6560-5560 + 6717-5717 2xx - Formation change
     
    Last edited: 26 Jun 2012
  21. astock5000

    astock5000 Member

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    06/07/2012:
    5504-6504 + 6514-5514 + 6732-5732 235 - Formation change
    5507-6507 + 6548-5548 + 6542-5542 212 (later became 23x)
    5520-6520 + 5722-6722 + 6597-5597 215 - Formation change
    5521-6521 + 6601-5601 + 6544-5544 213 - Formation change
    5524-6524 + 5503-6503 + 6591-5591 2xx (Circle) - Formation change
    5528-6528 + 6512-5512 + 6604-5604 241 - Formation change
    5532-6532 + 6559-5559 + 6728-5728 260 - Formation change
    5533-6533 + 5501-6501 + 6569-5569 207 - Formation change
    5534-6534 + 5555-6555 + 6576-5576 261 - Formation change
    5538-6538 + 6596-5596 + 6717-5717 2xx - Formation change
    5541-6541 + 5564-6564 + 6701-5701 240 - Formation change
    5553-6553 + 5527-6527 + 6711-5711 211 - Formation change
    5554-6554 + 5603-6603 + 6702-5702 242
    5556-6556 + 5511-6511 + 6590-5590 232
    5567-6567 + 6710-5710 + 6723-5723 2xx - Formation change
    5570-6570 + 5539-6539 + 6594-5594 2xx
    5575-6575 + 5529-6529 + 6602-5602 233
    5598-6598 + 6560-5560 + 6707-5707 075 - Formation change
    5704-6704 + 6573-5573 + 6715-5715 203 - Formation change
     
  22. 317666

    317666 Established Member

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    Thanks for the information, will make it easier for me to tick off my last C Stocks - I will start noting down all three units of each train to help keep track of formation changes.
    --- old post above --- --- new post below ---
    As of 14/07/2012, 5533-6533+5501-6501+6569-5569 and 5531-6531+5508-6508+6528-5528 were together.
    --- old post above --- --- new post below ---
    21/07/12:

    5701+5564+5541
    5714+5559+5544
    5550+5552+5545
    5731+5558+5724
    5587+5546+5551
    5543+5513+5561
    5734+5566+5515
    5523+5578+5518
    5602+5529+5563
    5507+5548+5542
    5705+5557+5584
    5504+5514+5732
    5540+5510+5726
     
    Last edited: 18 Jul 2012
  23. Peter Mugridge

    Peter Mugridge Established Member

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    Units 5532 and 5575 have apparently been damaged in a side on collision within the past month or so and have been withdrawn, their being little point in repairing them now with the S7 invasion coming in force after the Paralympics.
     
  24. astock5000

    astock5000 Member

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    04/09/2012:
    5514-6514 + 6552-5552 + 6545-5545 xxx - Formation change
    5525-6525 + 5535-6535 + 6718-5718 2xx - Formation change
    5530-6530 + 6583-5583 + 6593-5593 213 - Formation change
    5540-6540 + 6510-5510 + 6726-5726 237
    5549-6549 + 6574-5574 + 6568-5568 236 - Formation change
    5554-6554 + 5603-6603 + 6702-5702 205
    5562-6562 + 5512-6512 + 6708-5708 234 - Formation change
    5570-6570 + 5539-6539 + 6594-5594 235
    5584-6584 + 5561-6561 + 6724-5724 232 - Formation change
    5590-6590 + 6527-5527 + 6596-5596 214 - Formation change
    5598-6598 + 6560-5560 + 6707-5707 2xx
    5606-6606 + 6519-5519 + 6731-5731 245 - Formation change
    5704-6704 + 6573-5573 + 6715-5715 xxx
    5705-6705 + 5557-6557 + 6734-5734 xxx - Formation change
    5716-6716 + 5537-6537 + 6719-5719 215 - Formation change

    The S7 running as train 700 in the morning was 21301.
     
  25. 317666

    317666 Established Member

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    Where did you hear this from? I'm hoping it's just a rumour as I still need 5575!
     
  26. Dstock7080

    Dstock7080 Established Member

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    Collision Hammersmith depot, 6 July. UndergrounD News report.
     
  27. astock5000

    astock5000 Member

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    26/09/2012:
    5507-6507 + 6548-5548 + 6542-5542 2xx
    5525-6525 + 5535-6535 + 6709-5709 234 - Formation change
    5526-6526 + 5733-6733 + 6569-5569 200 - Formation change
    5533-6533 + 5501-6501 + 6556-5556 203 - Formation change
    5538-6538 + 6508-5508 + 6717-5717 247 - Formation change
    5543-6543 + 5513-6513 + 6711-5711 242 - Formation change
    5550-6550 + 5531-6531 + 6565-5565 205 - Formation change
    5551-6551 + 5546-6546 + 6587-5587 204
    5570-6570 + 5539-6539 + 6594-5594 243
    5604-6604 + 6557-5557 + 6705-5705 232 - Formation change
    --- old post above --- --- new post below ---
    29/09/2012:
    5518-6518 + 5578-6578 + 6523-5523 216
    5520-6520 + 5722-6722 + 6597-5597 244
    5525-6525 + 5535-6535 + 6709-5709 07x
    5529-6529 + 5566-6566 + 6577-5577 217 - Formation change
    5533-6533 + 5501-6501 + 6556-5556 204
    5540-6540 + 6510-5510 + 6726-5726 07x
    5543-6543 + 5513-6513 + 6711-5711 205
    5547-6547 + 6542-5542 + 6606-5606 07x - Formation change
    5549-6549 + 6574-5574 + 6568-5568 236
    5570-6570 + 5539-6539 + 6594-5594 206
    5571-6571 + 5528-6528 + 6718-5718 200 - Formation change
    5581-6581 + 6573-5573 + 6715-5715 245 - Formation change
    5590-6590 + 5564-6564 + 6596-5596 07x - Formation change
    5592-6592 + 5580-6580 + 6727-5727 2xx
    5593-6593 + 5716-6716 + 6701-5701 07x - Formation change
    5599-6599 + 5732-6732 + 6730-5730 2xx - Formation change
     
  28. TheJRB

    TheJRB Member

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    Also another one from Saturday:
    5731 + 5519 + 5720 211
     
  29. Peter Mugridge

    Peter Mugridge Established Member

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    Apparently 5532 + 5575 will make the journey of doom to Northwood ( running under the infamous diagram number 717 ) next Monday 15th...

    This will present some unique photo opportunities as I understand it will be the only time C Stock will make this move; the rest will be sent away by rail in due course.
    .
    .
    .
    --- old post above --- --- new post below ---
    I have it on very good authority that the above is indeed running...
     
    Last edited: 15 Oct 2012
  30. 12CSVT

    12CSVT Established Member

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    Is this the first time that C stock has run as 4 car (apart from the confines of the depot)?
     
  31. Peter Mugridge

    Peter Mugridge Established Member

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    Unless they did so in the pre-1980s days of short off peak trains then yes it will be as far as I know. I've certainly never seen a picture of a 4 car set in service.
     
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