C4 Dispatches: Investigation reveals number of 'ghost trains' lying idle in Britain

[marko2]

"At a time of rising fares and growing passenger dissatisfaction, an investigation has revealed that thousands of unused trains are standing idle in rail sidings and depots across the country.

According to industry experts, the unused “ghost trains” worth at least £3bn and containing over 110,000 seats are being stored across at least half a dozen sites, including Crewe, Worksop, Ely and Long Marston."

Some quality journalism at work - https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news...-number-of-ghost-trains-lying-idle-in-britain

 

[Domh245]

An investigation by Channel 4’s Dispatches into the UK’s dysfunctional railways has revealed that many of the carriages could be used immediately, while others only need minor adjustments to be brought into service to alleviate the pressure on busy commuter routes.

Which would those be?

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

Sadly just as this is exposes what we all know across this forum our railways and worse our nation are confronting a existential crisis of our known way of life so i suspect the programme may not make it onto our screens tonight

 

[hwl]

Which would those be?

LO's 710s

The rest are questionable.

 

[Bletchleyite]

LNR could take 365s to get more trains to 12-car I guess. But they don't need to for the next few months - went to London this morning, short formed 12 to 8 and there was a seat for everybody.

 

[IamTrainsYT]

Which would those be?

Pacers?

 

[a_c_skinner]

There is however considerable merit in the point they make. We are in a mess about interoperability after years of ill planned procurement whereby trains are not easily re-deployable. To the outsider this looks in many ways like just plain restrictive practices. Add to this the franchise system which limits rolling stock planning to refranchising and it is little wonder outsiders see all this as simply absurd. I won't suggest specific examples because if one does it simply produces a load of reasons why that wouldn't be possible as caution morphs into a general "can't do" approach.

 

[D365]

Which would those be?

Exactly my thoughts. For example, the bulk of Long Marston consists of D Stock carriages (which won’t be converted without orders being placed at Vivarail), Class 319s (we know how the Class 769 project is going) and HSTs which, let us not forget, have been heavily derided for their lack of controlled emissions toilets, among other things. And again we know how the conversion project is going.

There is however considerable merit in the point they make. We are in a mess about interoperability after years of ill planned procurement whereby trains are not easily re-deployable. To the outsider this looks in many ways like just plain restrictive practices. Add to this the franchise system which limits rolling stock planning to refranchising and it is little wonder outsiders see all this as simply absurd. I won't suggest specific examples because if one does it simply produces a load of reasons why that wouldn't be possible as caution morphs into a general "can't do" approach.

Going by the example of Long Marston again (as that’s the site I am most familiar with), virtually all of the rolling stock stored there simply isn’t suitable for further use without expensive and high risk conversion projects.

 

[AndrewE]

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news...-number-of-ghost-trains-lying-idle-in-britain says

Britain’s Train Hell is broadcast on Monday 16 March at 8pm on Channel 4

Channel 4’s Dispatches reveals carriages that could be used on busy commuter routes are sitting still in depots
At a time of rising fares and growing passenger dissatisfaction, an investigation has revealed that thousands of unused trains are standing idle in rail sidings and depots across the country.
According to industry experts, the unused “ghost trains” worth at least £3bn and containing over 110,000 seats are being stored across at least half a dozen sites, including Crewe, Worksop, Ely and Long Marston.
About 40% of UK rail routes are electrified, one of the lowest percentages in Europe. In 2017, three long-planned electrification projects were scrapped, including the Midland mainline.
An investigation by Channel 4’s Dispatches into the UK’s dysfunctional railways has revealed that many of the carriages could be used immediately, while others only need minor adjustments to be brought into service to alleviate the pressure on busy commuter routes/snip/

could be interesting...

 

[nlogax]

See https://www.railforums.co.uk/thread...of-ghost-trains-lying-idle-in-britain.202215/

 

[AndrewE]

See https://www.railforums.co.uk/thread...of-ghost-trains-lying-idle-in-britain.202215/

Thanks. I didn't spot that.
The guardian article broadens out to discuss the current govt. sitting on its hands:

Last week’s budget – in which the publication of the long-awaited national infrastructure strategy was delayed until later in the spring – focused on roadbuilding, while rail travel was largely ignored.

Ministers have previously said they will spend around £48bn on rail between now and 2024, but four-fifths of this is already earmarked for routine maintenance.
Since the budget last Wednesday, the chancellor’s infrastructure and other regional announcements have been criticised as vague.

Conservative MP Huw Merriman, chair of the transport select committee, said: “I was expecting a little more detail. The mantra of this government is about getting into parts of the communities that have not properly had the investment, the infrastructure, and really turning it around for them and making a notable difference by the time we come back knocking on the door for votes again.”

In September 2018, Theresa May’s government announced a “root and branch” review of the rail industry led by former British Airways executive Keith Williams.

It was supposed to make a series of ambitious recommendations that would transform the rail industry, reduce disruption and simplify fares. It was due to be published at the end of 2019 but has been delayed.

Government sources revealed that the “policy recommendations” section at the end of the review remains completely blank, with those involved in compiling it at odds about the way forward for Britain’s rail network.

 

[Bletchleyite]

319s need to be scrapped, they are knackered. The LNR ones are in a right state, e.g. a number of them with no heating.

 

[Domh245]

Exactly my thoughts. For example, the bulk of Long Marston consists of D Stock carriages (which won’t be converted without orders being placed at Vivarail), Class 319s (we know how the Class 769 project is going) and HSTs which, let us not forget, have been heavily derided for their lack of controlled emissions toilets, among other things. And again we know how the conversion project is going.

And even when you look at the stock that is "good to go" physically, you're basically limited to EMUs which there isn't really any great shortage of. And that's before you consider the other things that mean they can't be pressed into service immediately - you just have to look at the suggestions to introduce 365s at GA as a stopgap before the 720s start coming online - staff training, lack of stabling capacity, DOO considerations, gauge clearance, etc. None are necessarily insurmountable, but far from "can be immediately pressed into service"

Pacers?

I thought most of the off-lease ones had been scrapped already? And that's before the fact that running them requires derogation (which itself then attracts plenty of negative press!)

 

[SuperNova]

"At a time of rising fares and growing passenger dissatisfaction, an investigation has revealed that thousands of unused trains are standing idle in rail sidings and depots across the country.

According to industry experts, the unused “ghost trains” worth at least £3bn and containing over 110,000 seats are being stored across at least half a dozen sites, including Crewe, Worksop, Ely and Long Marston."

Some quality journalism at work - https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news...-number-of-ghost-trains-lying-idle-in-britain

Seven months after Rail pointed it out. Somehow, I suspect that this C4 dispatches 'investigation' will be a hatchet job.

 

[Taunton]

Not only the stock off lease, but also that part of the active fleet which is sat in depots outside the high peak while substantial loads in evenings/weekends etc are crushed in, or in some cases cannot board.

Chiltern running 2-car trains on the first inward Sunday morning departures on the day of the London Marathon, for example.

 

[superkev]

I'm sure lots of the stored emus would be out and about if electrification hadn't been " Graylinged" and most of the teams and plant disbanded.
K

 

[dorsetdesiro]

Aren't the 365s rumoured to go to Northern?

 

[IamTrainsYT]

I thought most of the off-lease ones had been scrapped already? And that's before the fact that running them requires derogation (which itself then attracts plenty of negative press!)

17 currently off lease, 9 in storage at Heaton

 

[mic505]

Deleted.

 

[baz962]

LO's 710s

The rest are questionable.

I think cross rail 345's more like . The 710's are being used now.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

I'm sure lots of the stored emus would be out and about if electrification hadn't been " Graylinged" and most of the teams and plant disbanded.
K

Grayling canned the MML, Windermere and Bolton-Wigan electrification (also Swansea).
EMR ordered new trains anyway, but bi-modes rather than straight electrics.
Northern had already ordered 331s for Windermere/Wigan (with 319s in advance if needed) - these are now 769 bi-mode routes, or diesel-worked.
Grayling didn't can Oxford/Bristol, that was Network Rail overspending the CP5 upgrade budget, mainly on the GW wiring.
But if they had completed that wiring, and also wired to Swansea, GWR would have used its 80x and 387 fleets for services, not anything parked up in sidings.
Fewer electric 80x would have been converted to bi-mode.
So I don't see how that affects any of the redundant EMUs.

Sure, the rolling programme would have called for more EMUs eventually, but that would not stop BR-era EMUs being parked in the meantime (or scrapped as "out of date").
There's also the issue of TOCs and ROSCOs preferring new trains rather than recycling old ones.
Hence the coming extinctions on GA and WMT, and South Eastern was also due to replace its Networker/Electrostar fleet with new.

 

[D365]

I'm sure lots of the stored emus would be out and about if electrification hadn't been " Graylinged" and most of the teams and plant disbanded.

The majority of stored EMUs are Class 319s, maybe there wouldn't be such a demand for 769s in a world without Grayling. However, judging by Northern's woeful reliability rates, GWR made a good choice by switching to the Class 387s.

Aren't the 365s rumoured to go to Northern?

Wrong.

 

[swt_passenger]

Thousands of trains = thousands of vehicles/carriages no? That’s a quick way of exaggerating for your TV programme...

 

[hexagon789]

May of those stored are either knackered, can't easily be used elsewhere, don't mean disability requirements, are only fit for scrap.

Typical media - exaggerating things to make it sound as though there is a plentiful store of use able trains up and down the country.

Some maybe could be used again with a bit of a refresh, but the majority can't or not without plenty of work first.

 

[The_Train]

Tonight - Dispatches runs a documentary slating the rail industry for having rolling stock lying unused.

A week later - Railway industry brings unused rolling stock back into service.

A month later - Dispatches runs a documentary slating the rail industry for using rolling stock that is not suitable for everyone and doesn't meet the requirements for disabled access.

 

[TheEdge]

Tonight - Dispatches runs a documentary slating the rail industry for having rolling stock lying unused.

A week later - Railway industry brings unused rolling stock back into service.

A month later - Dispatches runs a documentary slating the rail industry for using rolling stock that is not suitable for everyone and doesn't meet the requirements for disabled access.

And so the circle of life continues

 

[bramling]

May of those stored are either knackered, can't easily be used elsewhere, don't mean disability requirements, are only fit for scrap.

Typical media - exaggerating things to make it sound as though there is a plentiful store of use able trains up and down the country.

Some maybe could be used again with a bit of a refresh, but the majority can't or not without plenty of work first.

The theme might have better been “why has Britain bought a massive amount of electric units which weren’t really needed leaving other modern units homeless?”. The 707s being a case in point.

The answer of course being that the rolling stock strategy has become non existent in recent years.

 

[Darandio]

Sadly just as this is exposes what we all know across this forum our railways and worse our nation are confronting a existential crisis of our known way of life so i suspect the programme may not make it onto our screens tonight

This isn't a zombie apocalypse. Get a grip.

 

[hexagon789]

The theme might have better been “why has Britain bought a massive amount of electric units which weren’t really needed leaving other modern units homeless?”. The 707s being a case in point.

The answer of course being that the rolling stock strategy has become non existent in recent years.

Aren't those going to another operator or isn't it likely they will?

 

[swt_passenger]

The theme might have better been “why has Britain bought a massive amount of electric units which weren’t really needed leaving other modern units homeless?”. The 707s being a case in point.

The answer of course being that the rolling stock strategy has become non existent in recent years.

The 707s were needed at the time they were ordered. You’re applying a fair amount of hindsight here...